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Pressure ferment a Lager - Advice please?


Journeyman

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OK, my Fermenter King has arrived and I'm planning my 1st pressure ferment. From reading I understand lagers can be done at ambient in a pressure vessel. Also that I should start with some pressure in there whereas an ale can be left to build pressure from the ferment.

I'm thinking of an XPA recipe, one I have made maybe 6 or 7 times but I'm wondering what it might be like if I used the Coopers Lager tin and perhaps even chill the FV a bit.

Do you think it would make a different beer to usual? TBH the only lager yeast I have is the half/half that comes with the APA tin so I'm thinking I'd be better using Nott and maybe keep the temp down around (say) 15°. Would the lower temp make a difference or am I getting fancy where there is no point?

Edited by Journeyman
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Depends of course what ambient temp is. I let my lagers ferment @ 24° and I do it in the ferment fridge for more stable temp control as I feel that temp variations are a problem in fermenting. I have tried both methods of pressure at the start and letting it build its own pressure, cant say that I have noticed much difference between the 2.

If you use a half lager, half ale yeast then it will not be a true lager and same goes for using Nott, they will be pseudo lagers. That said you will still get a good drinkable beer. BTW I now ferment ales with Nott under pressure up around 24°/25° and it still ferments clean but is done in a much shorter time.

Good luck with the pressure test, the plazzis can be a challenge sometimes getting a good seal. I only seem to get a 80% success rate with mine, but your mileage may vary.

Edited by kmar92
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33 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Good luck with the pressure test, the plazzis can be a challenge sometimes getting a good seal. I only seem to get a 80% success rate with mine, but your mileage may vary.

I had noticed people talking about that and am hopeful the FK G3 has addressed at least some of the possible issues. Near as I can tell before the unboxing, all the join areas look pretty good. https://aussiebrewmakers.com.au/fermenter-king-gen-3-pressure-fermenter-unitank/

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36 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Depends of course what ambient temp is. I let my lagers ferment @ 24° and I do it in the ferment fridge for more stable temp control as I feel that temp variations are a problem in fermenting

I have a cupboard in the garage I was planning to use - fairly stable temps in there. Only outside wall is the roller door and it faces SE so gets brief morning sun at most. But then I wondered about the lager thing and thought I could take the current shelf out of the FV fridge to accommodate the height of the FK.

But from the sound of it, not really worth doing until I can set up for a proper lager.

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Got delayed in getting the FK G3 set up and I think they might have hired Sven. No instructions came with it but I worked through it... and there's a seal, maybe 3cm diameter that I cannot figure out a location for - it is 1 of 2 identical seals. I finally figured Sven is messing with me. 

Realistically it is a 2nd seal for the seating of the collection bottle at the base - seems to me that would get most wear and tear so including a spare would be a good idea. 😄

But that's a half hour and a couple of take down & reassembles I will never get back. 😄 Bastard Sven! 😄 

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2 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

Yes lagers can be done at ambient. I've done numerous under pressure, using W34/70. I always let it build up naturally as well. Give it a crack @Journeyman, you won't be disappointed. 

I ended up doing the next brew in the Coopers FV. Life got in the way a bit and I wasn't ready with the FK and the crystal had been in the fridge 3 days - use it or lose it. Tomorrow or Sat will be taking the FK apart and lubing the joins etc and put it together properly. Aussiebrewmakers (seller) gave me a call and we talked through stuff - he says the G3 shouldn't have any leak issues and doesn't even need brute force seals - he does his ones just hand tight and has had no issues. Good company I think.

I also want to build a platform for it on wheels - got some old chair castors I can use and it will make things MUCH simpler for brews.  Also have a bucket blaster, picnic tap (for samples) and a 35cm funnel coming to make the process easier. 😄

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2 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

Yes lagers can be done at ambient. I've done numerous under pressure, using W34/70. I always let it build up naturally as well. Give it a crack @Journeyman, you won't be disappointed. 

Hey Lettuce, what sort of ambient temps are we talking about? I do a lot of lagers and this interests me greatly.  

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57 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Hey Lettuce, what sort of ambient temps are we talking about? I do a lot of lagers and this interests me greatly.  

I've seen a few mentions of brewing them in the low 20's. Not sure what happens re the lagering process after that though.

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12 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I've seen a few mentions of brewing them in the low 20's. Not sure what happens re the lagering process after that though.

Okay JM thanks mate. I'm in Melbourne so I'd only have to wait another few weeks and the temps will be bang on for lagers in any FV.  It'll be 12degrees here in a flash and a blur. 😂

I'd love to give the pressure fermenting a crack. I guess as long as the ambient temp is withing range and is constant I'm guessing. 

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3 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I'd love to give the pressure fermenting a crack. I guess as long as the ambient temp is withing range and is constant I'm guessing. 

I think like any brew, constancy is the key. Mine is going in a cupboard that shouldn't vary much at all. That leaves my FV fridge free for more normal brewing.

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15 hours ago, Mickep said:

Hey Lettuce, what sort of ambient temps are we talking about? I do a lot of lagers and this interests me greatly.  

My ambient temps were somewhere between 25 and 30 degrees. The hotter temps certainly got the yeast crankin. My vessel was under pressure within 24 hours.

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18 hours ago, Journeyman said:

a 35cm funnel coming to make the process easier

35 cm is bigger than I was picturing - kinda thought it would be a bit larger than a corny top. So I shouldn't have any issues spilling my wort as it goes into the FK. 😄 

Gotta love private enterprise. Auspost starts with an 'expected by' date and never achieves it - they DO let you kn ow after a while in the website that it's NOT going to be on the original date but it's a spread of dates, right up until the day it's coming. Direct Freight Express delivered 2 shipments today, 1 from Melb and 1 from Sydney - 2 & 3 days from order date, and the 'delivery date' onsite was for Monday.

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On 3/18/2021 at 12:22 PM, Lettucegrove said:

Yes lagers can be done at ambient. I've done numerous under pressure, using W34/70. I always let it build up naturally as well. Give it a crack @Journeyman, you won't be disappointed. 

There is a problem with that if you under pitch and the temp is too high. You will get esters. I have found it best to hit it with 10psi from pitch. 

 

On 3/18/2021 at 3:46 PM, Journeyman said:

I've seen a few mentions of brewing them in the low 20's. Not sure what happens re the lagering process after that though.

The beauty of pressure ferment with lagers is the lagering process is virtually eliminated.  It is more of a traditional ale condition time. I find 4 weeks in a keg is when they hit their best. But can drink it once it is carbonated.  However, personally I like to age all my kegs.  That is why I have a 4 tap 8 keg keezer, I always have 4 kegs aging. 

Edited by MartyG1525230263
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1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

There is a problem with that if you under pitch and the temp is too high. You will get esters. I have found it best to hit it with 10psi from pitch. 

I've always used slurry so I may have unknowingly avoided the esters by using this bigger whack of yeast.

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4 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

I've always used slurry so I may have unknowingly avoided the esters by using this bigger whack of yeast.

Yep I am the same. One thing I have noticed since starting pressure ferments about 12 months ago is the slurry seems to hybridise quicker and it has a shorter functional life.  It was common to get about 10 generation of use before going to pressure but have noticed that 5 or 6 is the best now after that I start getting some unwanted flavours.  So I only give it 4 generation before I use fresh yeast now. 

 

Have you had similar experiences? 

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18 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

My next brew with my slurry will be #10 and I haven't noticed any off flavours so far. What off flavours were you noticing Marty?

Bit hard to describe but not clean at all.  Sort of fusel flavour which I should not have had with pressure ferment.  I eliminated it the moment I started using fresh yeast.  

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So (hopefully) todays the day I get the FK set up for use, sanitised, lubed and pressure tested. (WARNING: Tech stuff (kinda) ahead. 😄

Some time back, after saving up for ages, I bought a new PC - my current one was requiring more and more fixes to keep it running so I limped it through a year and then got the new machine.

Now, Linux is (mostly) a brilliant alternative to Windoze. It is fast, works on hardware than makes win doze even more than it does out of the box and pretty much everything you could want to do is easy to install, easy to update and... FREE!

However, I went not-quite-cutting-edge on motherboard and video. (more in a moment)

I removed the hard drives from my old PC - the 6TB & 4TB for their contents and the 1TB SSD for use in the new system. I installed Win10 (because I know how to do phone stuff using Win and SWMBO wants her phone rooted so she can clean out the bloatware & it easier (LMAO) than learning an entire new way of doing phones) on the 250GB NVME card (because it makes SSD's look like molasses) Then did the install of Linux Mint into the 2nd partition on it.

Failed! I copuildn't even start it except in compatibility mode (like safe mode in windoze)

In fact, to cut a long story short, in 4 days I couldn't get ANY flavour of Linux to work - the best was Manjaro and that's based on a version (Arch) of Linux that is radically different to what I use. (Ubunto base) And even Manjaro had issues.

FOUR days later, it's all up and working. Given what I know now I could have gotten Linux Mint to work but I had Kubuntu installed when I got the final fixes in so that's what I am on. I know more abouit kernels, what windoze does to partitions when IT gets to make them and a variety of other shit I thought I'd left behind at the end of my desktop support career. 😄

NOW I can get back to brewing and other stuff that I was heading in to do after the few hours I thought I would spend getting the new whizz-bang computer running. 😄

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36 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

So (hopefully) todays the day I get the FK set up for use, sanitised, lubed and pressure tested. (WARNING: Tech stuff (kinda) ahead. 😄

Some time back, after saving up for ages, I bought a new PC - my current one was requiring more and more fixes to keep it running so I limped it through a year and then got the new machine.

Now, Linux is (mostly) a brilliant alternative to Windoze. It is fast, works on hardware than makes win doze even more than it does out of the box and pretty much everything you could want to do is easy to install, easy to update and... FREE!

However, I went not-quite-cutting-edge on motherboard and video. (more in a moment)

I removed the hard drives from my old PC - the 6TB & 4TB for their contents and the 1TB SSD for use in the new system. I installed Win10 (because I know how to do phone stuff using Win and SWMBO wants her phone rooted so she can clean out the bloatware & it easier (LMAO) than learning an entire new way of doing phones) on the 250GB NVME card (because it makes SSD's look like molasses) Then did the install of Linux Mint into the 2nd partition on it.

Failed! I copuildn't even start it except in compatibility mode (like safe mode in windoze)

In fact, to cut a long story short, in 4 days I couldn't get ANY flavour of Linux to work - the best was Manjaro and that's based on a version (Arch) of Linux that is radically different to what I use. (Ubunto base) And even Manjaro had issues.

FOUR days later, it's all up and working. Given what I know now I could have gotten Linux Mint to work but I had Kubuntu installed when I got the final fixes in so that's what I am on. I know more abouit kernels, what windoze does to partitions when IT gets to make them and a variety of other shit I thought I'd left behind at the end of my desktop support career. 😄

NOW I can get back to brewing and other stuff that I was heading in to do after the few hours I thought I would spend getting the new whizz-bang computer running. 😄

@Journeyman  I find any open source platforms/OS a little tricky & sometimes messy but if you can get through it & get on top of it it works well,  In fact, one of the most popular platforms on the planet, Android, is powered by the Linux operating system.  I have never used it but sounds like you are up & running. 💻 Cheers.

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1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

So (hopefully) todays the day I get the FK set up for use, sanitised, lubed and pressure tested. (WARNING: Tech stuff (kinda) ahead. 😄

Some time back, after saving up for ages, I bought a new PC - my current one was requiring more and more fixes to keep it running so I limped it through a year and then got the new machine.

Now, Linux is (mostly) a brilliant alternative to Windoze. It is fast, works on hardware than makes win doze even more than it does out of the box and pretty much everything you could want to do is easy to install, easy to update and... FREE!

However, I went not-quite-cutting-edge on motherboard and video. (more in a moment)

I removed the hard drives from my old PC - the 6TB & 4TB for their contents and the 1TB SSD for use in the new system. I installed Win10 (because I know how to do phone stuff using Win and SWMBO wants her phone rooted so she can clean out the bloatware & it easier (LMAO) than learning an entire new way of doing phones) on the 250GB NVME card (because it makes SSD's look like molasses) Then did the install of Linux Mint into the 2nd partition on it.

Failed! I copuildn't even start it except in compatibility mode (like safe mode in windoze)

In fact, to cut a long story short, in 4 days I couldn't get ANY flavour of Linux to work - the best was Manjaro and that's based on a version (Arch) of Linux that is radically different to what I use. (Ubunto base) And even Manjaro had issues.

FOUR days later, it's all up and working. Given what I know now I could have gotten Linux Mint to work but I had Kubuntu installed when I got the final fixes in so that's what I am on. I know more abouit kernels, what windoze does to partitions when IT gets to make them and a variety of other shit I thought I'd left behind at the end of my desktop support career. 😄

NOW I can get back to brewing and other stuff that I was heading in to do after the few hours I thought I would spend getting the new whizz-bang computer running. 😄

 

linux   loved it on my old pc  , but now  with this all in one thing  i would dare put linux in becuase windoze will have a hissy fit   

linux  is a great platform   and works so much better the  mac or windows

Edited by ozdevil
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1 hour ago, ozdevil said:

linux   loved it on my old pc  , but now  with this all in one thing  i would dare put linux in becuase windoze will have a hissy fit  

You need something like Ghost - does it still exist? Then yu can make a byte-level copy and play with the AIO and if anythings goes awry, simply ghost windoze back.

And it is very likely someone out there has run a dual-boot to yur hardware and has the tips & tricks. 😄

1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

@Journeyman  I find any open source platforms/OS a little tricky & sometimes messy but if you can get through it & get on top of it it works well,  In fact, one of the most popular platforms on the planet, Android, is powered by the Linux operating system.  I have never used it but sounds like you are up & running. 💻 Cheers.

Yep - all working. Differences? Linux, fully updated from command line in about 10 mins. Windoze? Still updating and it's been an hour so far & likely at least that long again given the list. Linux updates run like those 'hack' screens you see in movies - type a few words and text scrolls down the screen for the next 10 minutes - then it's DONE! 😄

To give you an example - windoze wants me to update win10 because the version I have is old and going out of support. So, FIRST it updates all the current version THEN it decides to update to the new version and all ITS updates.

Edited by Journeyman
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6 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

You need something like Ghost - does it still exist? Then yu can make a byte-level copy and play with the AIO and if anythings goes awry, simply ghost windoze back.

And it is very likely someone out there has run a dual-boot to yur hardware and has the tips & tricks. 😄

Yep - all working. Differences? Linux, fully updated from command line in about 10 mins. Windoze? Still updating and it's been an hour so far & likely at least that long again given the list. Linux updates run like those 'hack' screens you see in movies - type a few words and text scrolls down the screen for the next 10 minutes - then it's DONE! 😄

I have always had Windows without issues apart from minor stuff we all get so I can't comment on the other too much. 

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1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

I have always had Windows without issues apart from minor stuff we all get so I can't comment on the other too much. 

After 20 years of supporting it I was WELL past staying with it. 😄

Depends why you compute I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

After 20 years of supporting it I was WELL past staying with it. 😄

Depends why you compute I guess.

I have always kept everything up to date OS/Windows/Software etc to work properly with my Graphics Programs as I still use it for Artwork designs & Photo Editing etc.

I have a 32 inch Samsung Curved Screen so it's awesome working with high resolution graphics.

PHOTOS FROM GALAXY NOTE 8 002 (3).jpg

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