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Yeast Thread 2021


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19 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

There  are some ale yeasts on the market now that can tolerate 10 to 12% I'm fairly sure Nottingham is one of them

i was bored at work yesterday and downloaded a bunch of lallemand yeast fact sheets. nottingham is a beast with a range of 10-22c and an alcohol tolerance of 14%

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5 minutes ago, Stickers said:

i was bored at work yesterday and downloaded a bunch of lallemand yeast fact sheets. nottingham is a beast with a range of 10-22c and an alcohol tolerance of 14%

yes its a bit of a gun I intend the harvest the slurry next time and see how much better it can get.

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7 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

yes its a bit of a gun I intend the harvest the slurry next time and see how much better it can get.

i need to get into this harvesting thing... currently using a fresh pack each time and wouldn't hurt to learn a new technique

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:55 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

So this is the starter the next morning. Looks like a normal saccharomyces starter but the krausen is like yellow tinged instead of white or sometimes a mauve or brown tinge that you get from a normal one. Smell is still citrus like. Will keep it going till it ferments out then give the smell and taste test.

 

20210723_082207.jpg

So I chucked 2 jars this evening. They were getting a funny smell and one had a little growth on top. The starter in the erlenmeyer the krausen had dropped a little so I decanted into a jar and have started a new starter with the last remaining jar. The one in the erlenmeyer I took a sample and took a ph which came to 4.3 and I had a taste. Tastes very much like a saison. Peppery and spicy. Anyway I'm gonna give it a whirl tomorrow in a 4L batch.

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13 minutes ago, Stickers said:

i need to get into this harvesting thing... currently using a fresh pack each time and wouldn't hurt to learn a new technique

Clean and then sanitise a jar with its lid, fill up the jar through the FV tap, store in fridge. Done.

Get onto it mate.

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1 hour ago, Stickers said:

i need to get into this harvesting thing... currently using a fresh pack each time and wouldn't hurt to learn a new technique

Being able to cold crash helps you know your getting more yeast in the slurry than just taking it after being at ambient.

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2 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

So I chucked 2 jars this evening. They were getting a funny smell and one had a little growth on top. The starter in the erlenmeyer the krausen had dropped a little so I decanted into a jar and have started a new starter with the last remaining jar. The one in the erlenmeyer I took a sample and took a ph which came to 4.3 and I had a taste. Tastes very much like a saison. Peppery and spicy. Anyway I'm gonna give it a whirl tomorrow in a 4L batch.

This sounds ace.  But I would be cleaning stuff with bleach.

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On 7/23/2021 at 5:40 PM, Graubart said:

And some of us also just backfill FVs onto the yeast cake which can work nicely too... I reckon one of my best ever lagers was a backfill over a prior yeast cake... not washing the FV out - just filling more fresh AG Wort in... 

GB @Graubart mate, can you run through the process here for a simple minded fella such as me. TIA

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15 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

Clean and then sanitise a jar with its lid, fill up the jar through the FV tap, store in fridge. Done.

Get onto it mate.

I started to do this. I was just putting the new lager brew on the W34/70 yeast cake. Worked well. Saves a lot of money on yeast.

This time took some from the FV when I had finished bottling, into a sterilised Mason Jar, no washing the yeast, into the fridge and will use it in couple of days.

This will be the third time I have used this yeast. Others have said they do considerably more. I'll see how this one goes then try another.

I like the idea of taking it out of the FV via the FV tap will do this next time.

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1 hour ago, Mickep said:

GB @Graubart mate, can you run through the process here for a simple minded fella such as me. TIA

Pretty much drain FV to keg or bottles.  Wash tap out by dipping w boiling water - so no crud left in tap.  Do not wash any internal surfaces - leave lid on till next step. 

Wearing clean clothes or lab coat 🏴‍☠️ w long sleeves and then rubber gloves that have been sanitised with Stellar San or other, use sterilised Chux to wipe down top of Coopers Fermenter and surfaces you may come into contact with - want to avoid any possible contam. 

Then - in my CASE - from my AG big SS Boil Kettle - I sanitise that tap - sanitise the food grade hose inside and out - join on the hose to the SS Vessel holding Wort with hose not touching any other surfaces.

Have pre-used FV w Yeast Cake on bottom to hand sitting on clean surface or clean towel or clean trolley... Then just pop the lid up while wearing the sanitised gloves..... lid up enough to let tube in... then fill the FV while splashing to aerate/oxygenate... but only with the crack of the FV Lid open enough to allow tube in... then put FV in sterile clean Brew Fridge and off you go.

Should fire up quickly.  All the hygiene stuff is to avoid any potential wild yeasts finding their way into the FV during filling. 

Quite a few brewers like @Red devil 44 Reddler who use Pressure Ferment Vessels (PFV) do the backfill just by joining up to the liquid post - I have just done same as above w my PFV - sterilised any related surfaces of lid and FV and then just popped hose in - backfilled - shut it down and then aerated it via shaking the PFV.  Any thoughts there Red @Red devil 44?

HTH @Mickep and there may be a few other backfilling brewers who can comment?  @Greeny1525229549 Greeny I think you have done this before mate?

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52 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

 

I like the idea of taking it out of the FV via the FV tap will do this next time.

had u been scooping it out? yes so much better leave a bit of beer on top and just swirl it up in fv. Then I usually have 3 jars lined up when been swirled. Then go along and 1/4 fill each one until they all full. In my mind by doing this I'm getting more even distribution of matter in each jar. Probably doing nothing but makes me feel better as for all the yeast we end up with in trube there is a lot of worthless stuff like what wouldn't ferment. I'm not very scientific so can't really explain it but so far this has worked for me.

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Probably will be giving the bohemian dry lager M84 a go at some stage too the good thing about trying these and re using slurry a few times means each time im saving the tin yeast. Then when i feel like something different can use 3 x Euro Lager kit yeast ETC so not going to waste. I done this with 3 86 days pills and was happy with results brewed at 12 degrees. 

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On 7/24/2021 at 12:36 AM, Barramullafella said:

Extract taken from Beer For Dummies ----> The vast majority of beer contains between 4 and 6 percent alcohol, but occasionally, brewers make beer with higher alcohol contents. In these beers, after reaching a level of 8 or 10 percent alcohol by volume, the beer yeast falls into a stupor, and fermentation is effectively over. When the brewmaster wants higher alcohol levels, he uses hardy champagne yeast to do the job.

I disagree with the author. Most champagne yeast have kill factors and will kill off your beer yeast if you co-pitch. If pitched at the beginning of fermentation the beer will have a lot of acetaldehyde which it will take months to clean up; beer yeast clean up acetaldehyde fast, champagne yeast do it slow. In addition, champagne yeast cannot break down the more complex malt sugars like maltotriose, so your FG will be pretty high. 

Nottingham can tolerate ABVs of 14%, though you may have to feed them a little bit of nutrient along the way, to keep them going. Best nutrient to use for this is boiled / killed beer yeast. 

On the other hand champagne yeast are great to use as bottling yeast for Barelywine, Imperial Porter, or a keeping Stout. Because they kill off the beer yeast and don't ferment the more complex malt sugars you won't end up with over-carbonated bottles if you age them for a long time. Cheap and effective substitute for Safale F2 or Lallemand CBC-1. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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7 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

I disagree with the author. Most champagne yeast have kill factors and will kill off your beer yeast if you co-pitch. If pitched at the beginning of fermentation the beer will have a lot of acetaldehyde which it will take months to clean up; beer yeast clean up acetaldehyde fast, champagne yeast do it slow. In addition, champagne yeast cannot break down the more complex malt sugars like maltotriose, so your FG will be pretty high. 

Nottingham can tolerate ABVs of 14%, though you may have to feed them a little bit of nutrient along the way, to keep them going. Best nutrient to use for this is boiled / killed beer yeast. 

On the other hand champagne yeast are great to use as bottling yeast for Barelywine, Imperial Porter, or a keeping Stout. Because they kill off the beer yeast and don't ferment the more complex malt sugars you won't end up with over-carbonated bottles if you age them for a long time. Cheap and effective substitute for Safale F2 or Lallemand CBC-1. 

Cheers,

Christina.

As simple as they are, the little buggers are quite complex. Cheers.

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20 hours ago, Graubart said:
21 hours ago, Mickep said:

GB @Graubart mate, can you run through the process here for a simple minded fella such as me. TIA

Pretty much drain FV to keg or bottles.  Wash tap out by dipping w boiling water - so no crud left in tap.  Do not wash any internal surfaces - leave lid on till next step. 

Wearing clean clothes or lab coat 🏴‍☠️ w long sleeves and then rubber gloves that have been sanitised with Stellar San or other, use sterilised Chux to wipe down top of Coopers Fermenter and surfaces you may come into contact with - want to avoid any possible contam. 

Then - in my CASE - from my AG big SS Boil Kettle - I sanitise that tap - sanitise the food grade hose inside and out - join on the hose to the SS Vessel holding Wort with hose not touching any other surfaces.

Have pre-used FV w Yeast Cake on bottom to hand sitting on clean surface or clean towel or clean trolley... Then just pop the lid up while wearing the sanitised gloves..... lid up enough to let tube in... then fill the FV while splashing to aerate/oxygenate... but only with the crack of the FV Lid open enough to allow tube in... then put FV in sterile clean Brew Fridge and off you go.

Should fire up quickly.  All the hygiene stuff is to avoid any potential wild yeasts finding their way into the FV during filling. 

Quite a few brewers like @Red devil 44 Reddler who use Pressure Ferment Vessels (PFV) do the backfill just by joining up to the liquid post - I have just done same as above w my PFV - sterilised any related surfaces of lid and FV and then just popped hose in - backfilled - shut it down and then aerated it via shaking the PFV.  Any thoughts there Red @Red devil 44?

HTH @Mickep and there may be a few other backfilling brewers who can comment?  @Greeny1525229549 Greeny I think you have done this before mate?

Thanks heaps for this GB @Graubart mate, Definitely give this a crack with my next. Good brewing my friend. I'm having a hell of a time syphoning mate, I've got jigglers, the auto syphon etc and still manage to turn it into a disaster. Cannot syphon to save myself. Any tricks apart from the obvious like having the feeder higher than the receiver? Got me stumped.

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1 hour ago, Mickep said:

Thanks heaps for this GB @Graubart mate, Definitely give this a crack with my next. Good brewing my friend. I'm having a hell of a time syphoning mate, I've got jigglers, the auto syphon etc and still manage to turn it into a disaster. Cannot syphon to save myself. Any tricks apart from the obvious like having the feeder higher than the receiver? Got me stumped.

@Mickep

When I do a dirty batch it is a lot simpler than that, no need for lab coats and long rubber gloves and all that theatre unless you have "Time Warp" blaring in the background ha ha. 😂Super doper sanitation practices go without saying though.  My method is just a jump to the left.🕺

Few things and points of difference that I stick to.

  • The first batch is generally a lower ABV than the second dirty batch to try and make up somewhat for the yeast over pitch.
  • Ideally the first batch is/was not dry hopped commando.
  • Always use the Coopers FV Krausen collar on the first batch so no need to buy a lab coat or glove up to clean off the scum ring.  The collar is removed on day 3 or 4 of the first brew and lid replaced so not much scum anyway.  Keep it simple to avoid a contamination and I don’t bother with using the collar on the dirty batch.
  • Have the fresh wort prepared sitting and sealed in a sanitised FV drum ready to go once first batch has been bottled or kegged.  I use one of those blue Bunnings 30 L drums with a tap and have it sitting up on the bench above the trub/yeast cake FV.  Think of this method as per the “no chill cubing” that the AG brewers do with their fresh wort’s.  The fresh wort could be prepared the day or night before and allowed to cool to ideal pitching temps if required. Using a drum and tap like this cuts out the need for any siphoning.
  • I have spare Coopers FV taps so I remove the one just used and sanitise the opening and slip in a clean and freshly sanitised tap.  The dirty tap is dismantled’ “O” rings taken off, all rinsed in hot water and then whole lot of tap bits goes into a jar of SP until next time use.
  • Decant the fresh wort via the drum tap and some tubing in under the lid of the trub/yeast cake FV and allow it to spray / splash onto the side of the FV. Do not stir up the trub when the new fresh wort goes in. 
  • The best and freshest yeast cells will be on top of the trub/yeast cake particularly if it was cold crashed and all the dead shit will be plastered on the bottom layer so leave it there.  Not much oxygen is required for trub yeast as compared with dry yeast pitching.  Get the fresh wort onto the trub as quickly as possible so the yeast cake has as little or no contact with the air at all.
  • I only do one dirty batch in a row.  After that everything is stripped down cleaned and soaked in SP for 24 and restart the process over fresh.

Similar process for when I use the pressure fermenter for a dirty batch and its nearly always been dry hopped commando but most of that muck is layered well down in the collection jar so I leave it all well enough alone.  Don't wipe or wash, just refill via floating dip tube (when it is not blocked) and seal up again and get it going.

Edited by iBooz2
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1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

When I do a dirty batch it is a lot simpler than that, no need for lab coats and long rubber gloves and all that theatre unless you have "Time Warp" blaring in the background ha ha. 😂Super doper sanitation practices go without saying though.  My method is just a jump to the left.🕺

Few things and points of difference that I stick to.

  • The first batch is generally a lower ABV than the second dirty batch to try and make up somewhat for the yeast over pitch.
  • Ideally the first batch is/was not dry hopped commando.
  • Always use the Coopers FV Krausen collar on the first batch so no need to buy a lab coat or glove up to clean off the scum ring.  The collar is removed on day 3 or 4 of the first brew and lid replaced so not much scum anyway.  Keep it simple to avoid a contamination and I don’t bother with using the collar on the dirty batch.
  • Have the fresh wort prepared sitting and sealed in a sanitised FV drum ready to go once first batch has been bottled or kegged.  I use one of those blue Bunnings 30 L drums with a tap and have it sitting up on the bench above the trub/yeast cake FV.  Think of this method as per the “no chill cubing” that the AG brewers do with their fresh wort’s.  The fresh wort could be prepared the day or night before and allowed to cool to ideal pitching temps if required. Using a drum and tap like this cuts out the need for any siphoning.
  • I have spare Coopers FV taps so I remove the one just used and sanitise the opening and slip in a clean and freshly sanitised tap.  The dirty tap is dismantled’ “O” rings taken off, all rinsed in hot water and then whole lot of tap bits goes into a jar of SP until next time use.
  • Decant the fresh wort via the drum tap and some tubing in under the lid of the trub/yeast cake FV and allow it to spray / splash onto the side of the FV. Do not stir up the trub when the new fresh wort goes in. 
  • The best and freshest yeast cells will be on top of the trub/yeast cake particularly if it was cold crashed and all the dead shit will be plastered on the bottom layer so leave it there.  Not much oxygen is required for trub yeast as compared with dry yeast pitching.  Get the fresh wort onto the trub as quickly as possible so the yeast cake has as little or no contact with the air at all.
  • I only do one dirty batch in a row.  After that everything is stripped down cleaned and soaked in SP for 24 and restart the process over fresh.

Similar process for when I use the pressure fermenter for a dirty batch and its nearly always been dry hopped commando but most of that muck is layered well down in the collection jar so I leave it all well enough alone.  Don't wipe or wash, just refill via floating dip tube (when it is not blocked) and seal up again and get it going.

Thanks for the very detailed response Boozer @iBooz2 mate, This will now be known at least to me as the Dirty Boozer's Batch Method - and I won't forget to include a jump to the left either.

I like the way you've ditched the syphoning angle too - thanks mate. 

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https://beerandbrewing.com/brasserie-de-la-sennes-yvan-de-baets-explains-saisons-greatest-myth-the/

Interesting article for people who like saisons. After using every saison yeast on the market it makes a lot of sense that they are really only 3 different yeasts. The dry ones from Lallemand,  Fermentis and MJ are all extremely similar. 

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On 7/28/2021 at 7:17 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

Wattle yeast beer is going along great. Have taken out of the ferm fridge to free it up for a couple of lagers and it's on the heat belt and temp controller at 23c. Looks no different to a sacc yeast fermentation. 

 

20210728_090346.jpg

That’s so awesome hope it works out 👍

There were some 5 litre demijohns on gumtree cheap, wish I had bought them now to try something like this looks 👍 

Edited by RDT2
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Ok so after the talk on kb lager thread and previous topics where people have discussion over how they d rest and take temps up and down in steps. I have just done something new with my Euro lager. Pitched last Thursday with OG of 1.057 and even after massive krausen and brewed on 13 degrees was only down to 1.030 Monday. M74 Bavarian lager yeast by the way.

so Tuesday I upped temp to 14 degrees after massive krausen fell over night and it developed slight sulphur smell. Wednesday I upped it to 15 degrees and the smell was slightly less and SG was  1.020. Last night at 7pm I put it on 16 degrees as the kb lager d rest temp with similar southern German lager yeast. Today with gravity of 1.017 and probably almost done I've put it on 17.0 degrees and sulphur smell all but gone.

My question would leaving it on 17 for 3 or 4 days or if I left it on 16 past gravity do much different in terms of taste or clean up. Has anyone tried less for longer and has results or am I better of with text book 18 degrees for 2 or 3 days?

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2 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

Ok so after the talk on kb lager thread and previous topics where people have discussion over how they d rest and take temps up and down in steps. I have just done something new with my Euro lager. Pitched last Thursday with OG of 1.057 and even after massive krausen and brewed on 13 degrees was only down to 1.030 Monday. M74 Bavarian lager yeast by the way.

so Tuesday I upped temp to 14 degrees after massive krausen fell over night and it developed slight sulphur smell. Wednesday I upped it to 15 degrees and the smell was slightly less and SG was  1.020. Last night at 7pm I put it on 16 degrees as the kb lager d rest temp with similar southern German lager yeast. Today with gravity of 1.017 and probably almost done I've put it on 17.0 degrees and sulphur smell all but gone.

My question would leaving it on 17 for 3 or 4 days or if I left it on 16 past gravity do much different in terms of taste or clean up. Has anyone tried less for longer and has results or am I better of with text book 18 degrees for 2 or 3 days?

I presume you meant M76 Bavarian Lager Yeast.  If you did then the specs say best fermented between 8 C - 14 C so if you started your ferment at 13 C its already at where I would have done the D-rest.  No wonder you had a massive Krausen.  Your 17 C to 18 C is too high in my book and I would get it back down to 15 C - 16 C now before you kill your yeast and cause some off flavours.  There is a term for this but I cannot think of it at the moment.

I usually hold mine at the D-rest temp for about half the number of days it took to ferment to within a couple of points of FG, i.e. 8 day ferment then at least 4 day D-rest.

Edited by iBooz2
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13 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

I presume you meant M76 Bavarian Lager Yeast.  If you did then the specs say best fermented between 8 C - 14 C so if you started your ferment at 13 C its already at where I would have done the D-rest.  No wonder you had a massive Krausen.  Your 17 C to 18 C is too high in my book and I would get it back down to 15 C - 16 C now before you kill your yeast and cause some off flavours.  There is a term for this but I cannot think of it at the moment.

I usually hold mine at the D-rest temp for about half the number of days it took to ferment to within a couple of points of FG, i.e. 8 day ferment then at least 4 day D-rest.

no I was taking it up there for d rest when ferment nearly complete the massive krausen was at 13 degrees and yes m76

Edited by jamiek86
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3 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

Pitched last Thursday with OG of 1.057 and even after massive krausen and brewed on 13 degrees was only down to 1.030 Monday. M74 Bavarian lager yeast by the way.

Maybe I read your post wrong as you state brewed on 13 C.

A snip below where I got the specs from, could not find M74.

M76 BAVARIAN LAGER YEAST - 10G

A bottom fermenting yeast suitable for most lager styles. Promotes less sulphur production than other lager strains as well as a fuller, more rounded malt character with well-promoted hop flavours.

Suitable for many European style beers including Lagers, Pilsners, Helles, Munich Dunkel, Rauchbier and more.

Attenuation: High

Flocculation: Medium

Usage Directions: Sprinkle contents directly on up to 23 L (6 US Gal) of wort. For best results ferment at 8-14 degrees C (45-57 degrees F).

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