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Yeast Thread 2021

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the second pack that was missing in last week's order turned up just in time for brew day Euro lager was about to use 3x Euro lager kit yeast. want see how this one goes against good old dubbya. although 3 grams less than if pitched 2 packs of dubbya hope not make too much difference 

20210722_124257.jpg

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On 7/20/2021 at 7:42 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

So this morning all 4 have the tell-tale bubbles on the surface. The left hand one especially.  Something is starting to eat the sugars.

20210720_070205.thumb.jpg.ccb89220b8518a598042fb7ef0550bc9.jpg

 

So I opened up and had a smell of each one this morning. None smelt bad or off but the one on the right was very dull like smell. The two in the middle were mild citrus smell and the one on the left had an extremely intense citrus smell. 

So I made up a 500ml starter and have pitched the solution of the left one into it. Will see how that grows and smells and if it's alright will give it a taste test and then onto making a 4L brew out of it.

The other 3 I will leave a few more days and see what happens with those.

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3 hours ago, Mickep said:

Hey Jamie @jamiek86 mate, I've read that with Ales we can pitch about 250ml of yeast slurry, Is that right? And am I reading this correctly you're pitching much more of the slurry into your lager brews? Cheers Mick

yes mate for lager brews I usually pitch 3/4 or the whole slurry from lager before and works well. I do a ale one brew and lager next so slurry sits in fridge for about 1 and half to 2 weeks before re pitched.

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In some posts it is advised to use more yeast yeast than the standard 7gm that comes with kit if using more than 1kg extra malt with the kit. Example 7gm for 1.7kg kit + 1kg dextrose is okay, but if using malt extract of 1kg or more with kit, than use example 11gm yeast. The reason behind this is the yeast cannot handle the extra malt. But, in saying so, if the yeast was spent on that amount of extra malt, how come it is still able to perform when bottles are using primer? I would think if the yeast is spent it would not be able to carbonate in the bottle. Just curious and my brain ticking over when I should be asleep lol. 

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On 3/4/2021 at 8:38 AM, Graubart said:

Thanks @Popo, @Shamus O'Sean and @Lettucegrove much appreciated - great to get some practical experience feedback! 👍👍

It was getting late last night and I desperately wanted to head off for a snooze so in the end I pitched in say an inch of foam... but then sterilised a spoon and stirred it in... then went off for a tub and gave it a bit of a swirly whirly gentle shake a little while later on... and this is what it looks like this morning just a bit below 22 deg 😄

image.thumb.png.15f91859add438b580b0310e1c5e524d.png

So everything seems to have worked out with a reasonably healthy looking Munich Classic Vitality Starter which will be pitched shortly 🥳

@Shamus O'Sean Shamus I am with you not wanting pay more for yeast... but there seems to be this ongoing debate between sprinkle and re-hydrate (I think Christina @ChristinaS1 has been monitoring this Christina?) ... so partly laziness and partly risk of infection with one more added step... am becoming more of a sprinkler ; )

Hey Graubart - if you're becoming more of a sprinkler it might be time to get your prostate checked!

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59 minutes ago, Barramullafella said:

In some posts it is advised to use more yeast yeast than the standard 7gm that comes with kit if using more than 1kg extra malt with the kit. Example 7gm for 1.7kg kit + 1kg dextrose is okay, but if using malt extract of 1kg or more with kit, than use example 11gm yeast. The reason behind this is the yeast cannot handle the extra malt. But, in saying so, if the yeast was spent on that amount of extra malt, how come it is still able to perform when bottles are using primer? I would think if the yeast is spent it would not be able to carbonate in the bottle. Just curious and my brain ticking over when I should be asleep lol. 

I have sometimes wondered about the same thing.  Similarly, it is said that some yeast does not like an alcohol environment and does not perform well.  If that is the case then how do the same yeasts manage to carbonate beer in bottles?

Just thinking now, I wonder if chucking a small amount of plain sugar into a fermenter with a stalled ferment might be a way to get it going again? Or will the stalled ferment just consume the sugar and then go back to sleep?

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19 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

So I opened up and had a smell of each one this morning. None smelt bad or off but the one on the right was very dull like smell. The two in the middle were mild citrus smell and the one on the left had an extremely intense citrus smell. 

So I made up a 500ml starter and have pitched the solution of the left one into it. Will see how that grows and smells and if it's alright will give it a taste test and then onto making a 4L brew out of it.

The other 3 I will leave a few more days and see what happens with those.

So this is the starter the next morning. Looks like a normal saccharomyces starter but the krausen is like yellow tinged instead of white or sometimes a mauve or brown tinge that you get from a normal one. Smell is still citrus like. Will keep it going till it ferments out then give the smell and taste test.

 

20210723_082207.jpg

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1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I have sometimes wondered about the same thing.  Similarly, it is said that some yeast does not like an alcohol environment and does not perform well.  If that is the case then how do the same yeasts manage to carbonate beer in bottles?

Just thinking now, I wonder if chucking a small amount of plain sugar into a fermenter with a stalled ferment might be a way to get it going again? Or will the stalled ferment just consume the sugar and then go back to sleep?

Yeah, that is the sort of thing I was wondering. If chucking a small amount of sugar in a stalled fermenter worked, than I would think the fermenter had not stalled but the yeast had converted all sugars. If it did not restart than I would assume the yeast was beyond help. Also, if a scoop of the dregs was salvaged and reused and it sprang to life, same thing - the yeast was hibernating.

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Collected this slurry from the 2 FV's yesterday. US-05. For my next brew, an ale what would be the appropriate amount to pitch.

It would be into a recipe very similar to this

Pacific Ale Kit tin 1.7kg

Wheat malt extract 1.5kg

200grams dextrose

Volume 24 liters

Also If I was using slurry from a dubbya lager and pitching into another lager would I need to pitch a greater amount than I would into the Ale brew?

Yeast slurry (1).jpg

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7 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Collected this slurry from the 2 FV's yesterday. US-05. For my next brew, an ale what would be the appropriate amount to pitch.

It would be into a recipe very similar to this

Pacific Ale Kit tin 1.7kg

Wheat malt extract 1.5kg

200grams dextrose

Volume 24 liters

Also If I was using slurry from a dubbya lager and pitching into another lager would I need to pitch a greater amount than I would into the Ale brew?

 

I would throw the whole lot in if was using Dubbya 34...   but I might be not following best practice either... just seems to work ok for me @Mickep

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14 minutes ago, Graubart said:

I would throw the whole lot in if was using Dubbya 34...   but I might be not following best practice either... just seems to work ok for me @Mickep

Thanks GB mate @Graubart, I had read that somewhere about the lager pitch. What say you me Ol' mate for the ale recipe. Read around 200mls ???

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6 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Thanks GB mate @Graubart, I had read that somewhere about the lager pitch. What say you me Ol' mate for the ale recipe. Read around 200mls ???

Haha well mate you do ask the challenging questions haha Mick ol' Cobber @Mickep.... mate I reckon might as well throw in the whole lot there too... just harvest again for yeast store after it is done in the next brew. 

Not a lot of yeast rate science being applied here mate just practicality - you open the jar once and use it - not numerous times risking contam... and I am happy with clean taste of US05 and have pitched on top of whole yeast cake slurries left in the FV plenty enough before and they all been good... 

I think if using US05 it is pretty safe as is benign well behaved yeast... if you are doing some hi-tech Belgian thing like @Greeny1525229549 Greeny (you there Greeny mate?) where you manipulate population density at pitch for different flavour profile results... then you gotta be a lot more scientifica about it I would suggest 🤔

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1 hour ago, Graubart said:

Haha well mate you do ask the challenging questions haha Mick ol' Cobber @Mickep.... mate I reckon might as well throw in the whole lot there too... just harvest again for yeast store after it is done in the next brew. 

Not a lot of yeast rate science being applied here mate just practicality - you open the jar once and use it - not numerous times risking contam... and I am happy with clean taste of US05 and have pitched on top of whole yeast cake slurries left in the FV plenty enough before and they all been good... 

I think if using US05 it is pretty safe as is benign well behaved yeast... if you are doing some hi-tech Belgian thing like @Greeny1525229549 Greeny (you there Greeny mate?) where you manipulate population density at pitch for different flavour profile results... then you gotta be a lot more scientifica about it I would suggest

Thanks Heaps GB @Graubart mate. Sounds like very good advice to me - clean and simple. I'm an extraordinarily simple man after all.

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1 hour ago, Graubart said:

Haha well mate you do ask the challenging questions haha Mick ol' Cobber @Mickep.... mate I reckon might as well throw in the whole lot there too... just harvest again for yeast store after it is done in the next brew. 

Not a lot of yeast rate science being applied here mate just practicality - you open the jar once and use it - not numerous times risking contam... and I am happy with clean taste of US05 and have pitched on top of whole yeast cake slurries left in the FV plenty enough before and they all been good... 

I think if using US05 it is pretty safe as is benign well behaved yeast... if you are doing some hi-tech Belgian thing like @Greeny1525229549 Greeny (you there Greeny mate?) where you manipulate population density at pitch for different flavour profile results... then you gotta be a lot more scientifica about it I would suggest 🤔

Hey GB. Yeah pretty much mate. If you want something clean throw all the yeast you got at it. For lagers I do that and get the cleanest crispest result's. For ales I really did away with slurry as with increased esters the variability of yeast pitches gave variable taste results. It's a lot more noticeable in Belgians but even when I did it with S04 once I noticed a big difference. US05 and others like notty though which are clean the variability would not be much with an overpitch.

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41 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Thanks Heaps GB @Graubart mate. Sounds like very good advice to me - clean and simple. I'm an extraordinarily simple man after all.

Focused on the simple yet amazingly beautiful things in life mate - water, malted grain, hops and yeast 🥳

 

And @Greeny1525229549 Greeny the Yeast King has given us the green light mate @Mickep Mick so I reckon we are ok 👍

(Thanks for that excellent feedback Greeny)

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4 minutes ago, Graubart said:

Focused on the simple yet amazingly beautiful things in life mate - water, malted grain, hops and yeast 🥳

That's the best recipe in the world Herr Graubster, what more would one want ? I still haven't got around to doing anything with yeast rather than just buy it, I am always worried about infection & ruining the whole brew. I do practice strict sanitary procedures but seem to just use dry yeast, What to do 🤔

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31 minutes ago, Graubart said:

Focused on the simple yet amazingly beautiful things in life mate - water, malted grain, hops and yeast 🥳

 

And @Greeny1525229549 Greeny the Yeast King has given us the green light mate @Mickep Mick so I reckon we are ok 👍

(Thanks for that excellent feedback Greeny)

GB @Graubart and Greeny @Greeny1525229549 thanks heaps for the feedback. Appropriately, I'm going with the green light given on the process as directed by the Green one himself @Greeny1525229549 the Yeast King. Can't go wrong!

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3 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

I still haven't got around to doing anything with yeast rather than just buy it, I am always worried about infection & ruining the whole brew. I do practice strict sanitary procedures but seem to just use dry yeast, What to do

Is a cost benefit thing... if you can use new yeast and it doesn't break the budget and is easily got hold of then why not...  cut out any infection possibility hey. 

If you can re-use and have all the sterile harvesting and storage - then re-use is great too... 

And some of us also just backfill FVs onto the yeast cake which can work nicely too... I reckon one of my best ever lagers was a backfill over a prior yeast cake... not washing the FV out - just filling more fresh AG Wort in... 

So many ways to the top of the Mountain me good ol' Cobber @CLASSIC Phil hey 🤔

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4 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

That's the best recipe in the world Herr Graubster, what more would one want ? I still haven't got around to doing anything with yeast rather than just buy it, I am always worried about infection & ruining the whole brew. I do practice strict sanitary procedures but seem to just use dry yeast, What to do 🤔

All I will say @CLASSIC is you have to buy malt. You have to buy hops but you most certainly do not have to buy yeast. The savings are huge if you reuse or harvest yeast particularly lager yeast.

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4 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

I am always worried about infection & ruining the whole brew. I do practice strict sanitary procedures but seem to just use dry yeast, What to do 🤔

Phil, your brewing sanitation practices have been first rate from what I have seen and read, you would not have a problem in your brewery harvesting and reusing your yeasts.   I kid you not, add this trick to your arsenal and it will save you big $$$'s and boost your confidence heaps.  You could even harvest your own yeast from your own bottles after you drink them viz the CCA method with just a sanitised soft drink bottle and some dry malt and water, boiled then cooled.  Its very handy to have a stash different of yeasts in your yeast bank collection.

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6 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

All I will say @CLASSIC is you have to buy malt. You have to buy hops but you most certainly do not have to buy yeast. The savings are huge if you reuse or harvest yeast particularly lager yeast.

I will definitely give it a go as I can see the benefits & I do agree if you can save $$ why wouldn't you. Cheers for that I will try it & post results.

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1 minute ago, iBooz2 said:

Phil, your brewing sanitation practices have been first rate from what I have seen and read, you would not have a problem in your brewery harvesting and reusing your yeasts.   I kid you not, add this trick to your arsenal and it will save you big $$$'s and boost your confidence heaps.  You could even harvest your own yeast from your own bottles after you drink them viz the CCA method with just a sanitised soft drink bottle and some dry malt and water, boiled then cooled.  Its very handy to have a stash different of yeasts in your yeast bank collection.

I a fast becoming in agreeance with all of you, I will add the last couple of weeks have really made me think about it more as when I rinse out the bottles after a session I can see the deposits & as they go down the sink. I will do it starting tomorrow. A lot of my brews lately have really been nice with creamy heads, retention etc so I truly can see the value of re-harvesting.

Thank you all for your input.

Cheers.

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collecting the trube is definitely alot easier than making a starter from dregs as long as jar is sanitised properly. a simple smell before pitch is usually a good indication. I leave the beer on top of slurry if smells like a mini beer I tip most off swirl for mix and pitch

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Extract taken from Beer For Dummies ----> The vast majority of beer contains between 4 and 6 percent alcohol, but occasionally, brewers make beer with higher alcohol contents. In these beers, after reaching a level of 8 or 10 percent alcohol by volume, the beer yeast falls into a stupor, and fermentation is effectively over. When the brewmaster wants higher alcohol levels, he uses hardy champagne yeast to do the job.

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6 hours ago, Barramullafella said:

Extract taken from Beer For Dummies ----> The vast majority of beer contains between 4 and 6 percent alcohol, but occasionally, brewers make beer with higher alcohol contents. In these beers, after reaching a level of 8 or 10 percent alcohol by volume, the beer yeast falls into a stupor, and fermentation is effectively over. When the brewmaster wants higher alcohol levels, he uses hardy champagne yeast to do the job.

There  are some ale yeasts on the market now that can tolerate 10 to 12% I'm fairly sure Nottingham is one of them plus the Belgian ones ETC. I'm not sure about lager strains though but I'm sure there are some that could get up there especially with the assistance of nutrients. 

Talking about lager yeast, my Euro Lager with M76 Bavarian Lager yeast was going fine this morning when got home from work and even better before left tonight. Really cant wait to see the difference between this and Dubbya and will be collecting the slurry from at least another couple of brews I use it with. Nice white creamy looking krausen can only hope it turns out like it is in my imagination. 

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