It's Kegging Time 2021.

[Red devil 44]

Pacific Pale Ale pressure transfer from Fermzilla to keg, straight on tap, happy days

[Journeyman]

I have a bit of a problem I wasn't expecting - too much beer!

I can fit 5 kegs in the fridge. I have 2 almost full, 1 half full & one getting low. I have 2 brews in CC right now. I was thinking to simply finish the low one - it's the 9.6% so not just a 1-night stand,  - and I'd be fine.

But I've been quite sick so the drinking came to an abrupt halt & will be resuming MAYBE by the end of the week. Hopefully by then I will be able to lift full FV's and kegs.

So I guess I'm going to test if purging a keg and leaving it at room temp harms the beer at all.  

[Malter White]

2 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I have a bit of a problem I wasn't expecting - too much beer!

I can fit 5 kegs in the fridge. I have 2 almost full, 1 half full & one getting low. I have 2 brews in CC right now. I was thinking to simply finish the low one - it's the 9.6% so not just a 1-night stand,  - and I'd be fine.

But I've been quite sick so the drinking came to an abrupt halt & will be resuming MAYBE by the end of the week. Hopefully by then I will be able to lift full FV's and kegs.

So I guess I'm going to test if purging a keg and leaving it at room temp harms the beer at all.  

Are you a JourneyMAN or a JourneyMOUSE? Drink the bloody beer! Issue resolved.

[Journeyman]

2 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Are you a JourneyMAN or a JourneyMOUSE? Drink the bloody beer! Issue resolved.

I bin sick man...

[Shamus O'Sean]

11 hours ago, Journeyman said:

So I guess I'm going to test if purging a keg and leaving it at room temp harms the beer at all.  

Nope

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I bin sick man...

PS Sorry to hear that.  Get well, mate.

[Journeyman]

12 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

PS Sorry to hear that.  Get well, mate.

I'm trying. Feeling about 75% today. S'all good but it's amazing what tiny little bacteria can do to one.  Thanks!

[Journeyman]

On 2/3/2021 at 9:05 AM, Journeyman said:

S'all good but it's amazing what tiny little bacteria can do to one.

Still working on it but doc got quite serious about not just not drinking while on these meds but leaving it for 3 days at least AFTER I finish them. Dafuq? Thinking I might be taking 4 per day instead of 3 - get it over with quicker.  Gonna be longest cold crash I've done.

[jamiek86]

19 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Still working on it but doc got quite serious about not just not drinking while on these meds but leaving it for 3 days at least AFTER I finish them. Dafuq? Thinking I might be taking 4 per day instead of 3 - get it over with quicker.  Gonna be longest cold crash I've done.

been to any hotels or visited the tennis?  dont become another fake statistic

[iBooz2]

23 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Still working on it but doc got quite serious about not just not drinking while on these meds but leaving it for 3 days at least AFTER I finish them. Dafuq? Thinking I might be taking 4 per day instead of 3 - get it over with quicker.  Gonna be longest cold crash I've done.

I was going to mention your sanitation regime (sanitise everything that comes in touch with anything that comes in touch with your brewing) but sorry to hear of your illness so I won't.

As you know, you are just a big biological host to a lot of gut bacteria (like the rest of us) and there are lots of other bacteria in the world that just want to take you and them out so look after yourself first and foremost, the beers can wait.  Not only that you will bounce back quicker if you behave as per Dr's orders.

If you have "keg full" problems besides bugs, meds and all the usual (and you are not infectious) I suggest you invite your SA neighbor @MUZZY around, that should take care of the excesses and when you spring back you will have to make up for lost beer drinking time (the fun part).

Get well soon matey.

[Pale Man]

First ever AG Pilsner going in. Yes I cold crashed and finings 

 

[Malter White]

11 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

If you have "keg full" problems besides bugs, meds and all the usual (and you are not infectious) I suggest you invite your SA neighbor @MUZZY around, that should take care of the excesses and when you spring back you will have to make up for lost beer drinking time (the fun part).

Get well soon matey.

Being the consumate team player I am, this is the kind of sacrifice I would make for an ill comrade.

[Journeyman]

16 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

been to any hotels or visited the tennis?  dont become another fake statistic

Nah mate, plus I have a healthy immune system. I'm old enough to have NOT been coddled as a kid.  Sickest I can ever remember being - even as a kid I had the normal diseases usually just long enough for the Doc to identify them. Had a ruptured appendix a few years back (  It was so swollen the surgeon kept a pic of it for his students)) & got a couple of cute nurses who nearly killed me 3 times, turning it into an 11 day hospital stay but I don't count attempted murder as sick.

Reckon I'm about 90% today. 

15 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Being the consumate team player I am, this is the kind of sacrifice I would make for an ill comrade.

Wow! That's AMAZING!!! The sacrifices peoples will make...  

 

15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

and you are not infectious

Pretty sure not infectious.  Apparently one of these... Enterococcus, Escherichia coli, Campylobacter jejuni, Staphylococcus aureus, Salmonella or Listeria monocytogenes. If I hadn't responded well they were going to test to see which. Bad chicken - normally my nose would save me but it was rather spiced. (the chicken, not my nose  )

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot... the Doc got very annoyed that I waited 4 days thinking... "this too shall pass!" (which everything else was, with alacrity and in monochrome red  ) and lectured me about people in India dying of such things  Have  to laugh though - as well as the medics, she ordered up rice, bananas and water with lemon juice and salt/sugar in it.  She's from India. Good Doc.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Journeyman

[Journeyman]

OK, I have my spunding valve etc. for pressure ferment, but with a Scottish father and a Jewish mother, my natural caution about waste nerve is tingling and my lazy bones are creaking at the thought of extra brews to maintain the flow.

I recently kegged the 2 beers from the fridge and looked at the trub and mentally pictured that amount in a keg. I'm thinking I'd lose about 2 litres of space in the keg.  I'm also a little 'meh' about the idea of leaving the beer sitting on trub for any length of time - some of the trubs left behind after kegging look distinctly unappetising.  This is likely to be an increasing problem as I am trying to reduce the number of nights per week that I'm drinking - Iv'e always had a healthy liver and don't want to change that and there's also about 10kg the past 18 months has added to my waist.

I've been dabbling with crypto coins, trying to work out what that stuff is all about and I'm close to double my investment (after a month that's not too bad) so was thinking maybe take some out and buy a fermzilla - kegland have the allrounder as a pressure kit for $90. Then I can brew the amounts I want rather than smaller ones. The spunding kit I bought can be spares or for small batches when I try things out. 

I think maybe I just talked myself into getting the fermzilla,  but I do have one question - or maybe a couple. When you transfer under pressure, does it stir up the trub? (assuming I don't do that while moving it to the bench) With a floating dip tube I'm wondering if I can easily fill bottles after the keg is full. I have a Carb top on a hose so I can screw that to a PET bottle and fill. 

Also I'm trying to think how otherwise I can fill bottles - I figure seeing the fermzilla doesn't have a tap I'd need a siphon if the pressure idea isn't viable.

If I have to I can just do brews specifically to bottle but it would be handy to be able to fill a few from each brew instead of a whole different batch.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Journeyman

[ozdevil]

14 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

OK, I have my spunding valve etc. for pressure ferment, but with a Scottish father and a Jewish mother, my natural caution about waste nerve is tingling and my lazy bones are creaking at the thought of extra brews to maintain the flow.

I recently kegged the 2 beers from the fridge and looked at the trub and mentally pictured that amount in a keg. I'm thinking I'd lose about 2 litres of space in the keg.  I'm also a little 'meh' about the idea of leaving the beer sitting on trub for any length of time - some of the trubs left behind after kegging look distinctly unappetising.  This is likely to be an increasing problem as I am trying to reduce the number of nights per week that I'm drinking - Iv'e always had a healthy liver and don't want to change that and there's also about 10kg the past 18 months has added to my waist.

I've been dabbling with crypto coins, trying to work out what that stuff is all about and I'm close to double my investment (after a month that's not too bad) so was thinking maybe take some out and buy a fermzilla - kegland have the allrounder as a pressure kit for $90. Then I can brew the amounts I want rather than smaller ones. The spunding kit I bought can be spares or for small batches when I try things out. 

I think maybe I just talked myself into getting the fermzilla,  but I do have one question - or maybe a couple. When you transfer under pressure, does it stir up the trub? (assuming I don't do that while moving it to the bench) With a floating dip tube I'm wondering if I can easily fill bottles after the keg is full. I have a Carb top on a hose so I can screw that to a PET bottle and fill. 

Also I'm trying to think how otherwise I can fill bottles - I figure seeing the fermzilla doesn't have a tap I'd need a siphon if the pressure idea isn't viable.

If I have to I can just do brews specifically to bottle but it would be handy to be able to fill a few from each brew instead of a whole different batch.

I have the fermzilla infact i will be  transfering from the fermzilla to keg later on today ..

to answer your question   about it disturbing the the trub  it definately doesnt disturb  it what so ever as your draw the wort from the top to the bottom.

a good contraption to purchase with the fermzilla  is one of these in the pic below..

Now what you have left over after the keg is filled you can easily transfer the wort to a bottle  by using a counter  bottle pressure  filler 

or

you can use a picnic tap with  a bottling wand  to fill what ever bottles you have of the remaining liquid

here is the good thing about  the fermzilla if you want to do it..

what ya do is on the gas post of fermzilla(where you attach spundig valve) you can  get some 4mm id  with 2 grey ball locks  so you attach it to  your sanitised keg  from the gas post of fermzilla and the in post of the keg   and on the out post of the keg you attach ya spunding valve

what this does it allows you to purge the oxygen out of the keg   and also at the same time produce Co2 with in the keg  and it will help carbonate your beer once you  have transfered it

yes ya still need to  put co2  in once you have kegged it but you have just  helped the beer  along by droping it in the Co2 that you have collected   and most of all what you have collected from the ferment  thats free gas

[Journeyman]

13 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

what ya do is on the gas post of fermzilla(where you attach spundig valve) you can  get some 4mm id  with 2 grey ball locks  so you attach it to  your sanitised keg  from the gas post of fermzilla and the in post of the keg   and on the out post of the keg you attach ya spunding valve

The above confuses me a little - is this just to transfer the CO2 which is under pressure in the FV? Doing gas-to-gas and presume using the valve at no pressure to release the O2? Then I'd swap to a liquid-to-liquid disconnect to go on the keg line out to fill the keg with beer, while I have the gas-to-gas running back to the FV to keep the flow going?

What I was picturing was purge the keg with CO2, then connect the gas line to the gas on the FZ, connect the beer posts on both and use the CO2 keg pressure to kick off the flow then disconnect that and put the valve on the gas post set higher than the FZ pressure to ensure it keeps pushing the beer out.

Or have I misunderstood?

This is what I have right now... BlowTie Complete Kit, SS Ball Float & 80cm Silicone Dip Tube, Floating Dip Tube Filter, which was originally planned to let me ferment in the keg.  I could just buy the all-rounder and extra bits but their kit with everything is only $20 more and buying the extras would cost almost all that. (the FZ by itself doesn't have the posts or pressure rated lid AFAIK, nor the extras like webbing etc.)

[ozdevil]

30 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

The above confuses me a little - is this just to transfer the CO2 which is under pressure in the FV? Doing gas-to-gas and presume using the valve at no pressure to release the O2? Then I'd swap to a liquid-to-liquid disconnect to go on the keg line out to fill the keg with beer, while I have the gas-to-gas running back to the FV to keep the flow going?

What I was picturing was purge the keg with CO2, then connect the gas line to the gas on the FZ, connect the beer posts on both and use the CO2 keg pressure to kick off the flow then disconnect that and put the valve on the gas post set higher than the FZ pressure to ensure it keeps pushing the beer out.

Or have I misunderstood?

This is what I have right now... BlowTie Complete Kit, SS Ball Float & 80cm Silicone Dip Tube, Floating Dip Tube Filter, which was originally planned to let me ferment in the keg.  I could just buy the all-rounder and extra bits but their kit with everything is only $20 more and buying the extras would cost almost all that. (the FZ by itself doesn't have the posts or pressure rated lid AFAIK, nor the extras like webbing etc.)

I probably havent explained myself to well

what your picturing  of the transfer of the wort  is correct

i am saying  when  you are fermenting  you can collect Co2  in a keg, you can purge the oxygen out of the keg    so when you transfer the beer to keg   there will be no oxygen geting into your beer
i think this you tube video is what i am  try to explain
 

But that filter for the pick up tube for the fermzilla or even all rounder  will be good thing  as you wont suck up lose fragments from the hop or trub  
 

[Journeyman]

59 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

i am saying  when  you are fermenting  you can collect Co2  in a keg, you can purge the oxygen out of the keg    so when you transfer the beer to keg   there will be no oxygen geting into your beer
But that filter for the pick up tube for the fermzilla or even all rounder  will be good thing  as you wont suck up lose fragments from the hop or trub  

Ah... that makes more sense.  But doesn't that reduce the pressure in a pressure ferment? Or does the ferment produce enough CO2 to get both FZ and keg to decent pressure?

[ozdevil]

31 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Ah... that makes more sense.  But doesn't that reduce the pressure in a pressure ferment? Or does the ferment produce enough CO2 to get both FZ and keg to decent pressure?

you are going to need  co2  to help transfer the beer 

but to purge  there should be enough  ,  just wait till you have the build up  showing in the spunding valve

 

[kmar92]

3 hours ago, Journeyman said:

OK, I have my spunding valve etc. for pressure ferment, but with a Scottish father and a Jewish mother, my natural caution about waste nerve is tingling and my lazy bones are creaking at the thought of extra brews to maintain the flow.

I recently kegged the 2 beers from the fridge and looked at the trub and mentally pictured that amount in a keg. I'm thinking I'd lose about 2 litres of space in the keg.  I'm also a little 'meh' about the idea of leaving the beer sitting on trub for any length of time - some of the trubs left behind after kegging look distinctly unappetising.  This is likely to be an increasing problem as I am trying to reduce the number of nights per week that I'm drinking - Iv'e always had a healthy liver and don't want to change that and there's also about 10kg the past 18 months has added to my waist.

I've been dabbling with crypto coins, trying to work out what that stuff is all about and I'm close to double my investment (after a month that's not too bad) so was thinking maybe take some out and buy a fermzilla - kegland have the allrounder as a pressure kit for $90. Then I can brew the amounts I want rather than smaller ones. The spunding kit I bought can be spares or for small batches when I try things out. 

I think maybe I just talked myself into getting the fermzilla,  but I do have one question - or maybe a couple. When you transfer under pressure, does it stir up the trub? (assuming I don't do that while moving it to the bench) With a floating dip tube I'm wondering if I can easily fill bottles after the keg is full. I have a Carb top on a hose so I can screw that to a PET bottle and fill. 

Also I'm trying to think how otherwise I can fill bottles - I figure seeing the fermzilla doesn't have a tap I'd need a siphon if the pressure idea isn't viable.

If I have to I can just do brews specifically to bottle but it would be handy to be able to fill a few from each brew instead of a whole different batch.

Yes @Journeyman I share your concerns about leaving the beer on the trub, so if I was pressure fermenting in a keg (guess that I do ferment in a keg - a kegmenter) I would certainly be racking it off to another keg when the ferment is over. I think a 2lt loss is acceptable but you could probably waste less if you set up your floating dip tube at the right length, e.g. yesterday I transferred a finished beer from my kegmenter to a keg and as it was a smaller batch and less than 19lt I just let the transfer go until it stopped and I reckon there was less than 1lt left in the kegmenter and the trub was undisturbed.

With fermzillas I never found the trub being disturbed on transfer. I also found that after cold crashing the fermzilla the trub was compacted enough that even moving it from the fridge to a bench to do the transfer, the trub remained undisturbed. On fermzillas in general I have used both the conical and the all-rounder on many occasions and overall I found that they leave somethings to be desired. I found them to be fiddly getting a good pressure seal despite trying all the suggestions and techniques I have seen, I still had maybe a 20% failure rate with sealing, on the 1st attempt. Other say that they have no issues achieving a good seal but unfortunately for me that was not my experience. In my opinion, from an engineering point of view, I feel that they attempted to manufacture something for a low price and that is not always compatible with a quality item. So in the end I bought a S/S kegmenter and I am more than happy with it.

As far as bottling from a fermzilla I have never tried doing that.

[Journeyman]

9 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

So in the end I bought a S/S kegmenter and I am more than happy with it.

So something like this... https://www.kegland.com.au/29l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html and this to go with it? https://www.kegland.com.au/4-inch-tri-clover-kegmenter-lid-with-ball-lock-posts-floating-dip-tube-and-prv-red-2-5bar.html

That's more than double the price - might have to wait and see if ScuMo sends another payment.

[kmar92]

Yes @Journeyman that is the one I got. Yes it is quite a bit more expensive but I figured that it really should have an unlimited life (the fermzilla plastic pressure container has a time - limited life) and it seals perfectly everytime. The main downside is that you can't see what is happening inside, but I can live with that.

[ozdevil]

41 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Yes @Journeyman I share your concerns about leaving the beer on the trub, so if I was pressure fermenting in a keg (guess that I do ferment in a keg - a kegmenter) I would certainly be racking it off to another keg when the ferment is over. I think a 2lt loss is acceptable but you could probably waste less if you set up your floating dip tube at the right length, e.g. yesterday I transferred a finished beer from my kegmenter to a keg and as it was a smaller batch and less than 19lt I just let the transfer go until it stopped and I reckon there was less than 1lt left in the kegmenter and the trub was undisturbed.

With fermzillas I never found the trub being disturbed on transfer. I also found that after cold crashing the fermzilla the trub was compacted enough that even moving it from the fridge to a bench to do the transfer, the trub remained undisturbed. On fermzillas in general I have used both the conical and the all-rounder on many occasions and overall I found that they leave somethings to be desired. I found them to be fiddly getting a good pressure seal despite trying all the suggestions and techniques I have seen, I still had maybe a 20% failure rate with sealing, on the 1st attempt. Other say that they have no issues achieving a good seal but unfortunately for me that was not my experience. In my opinion, from an engineering point of view, I feel that they attempted to manufacture something for a low price and that is not always compatible with a quality item. So in the end I bought a S/S kegmenter and I am more than happy with it.

As far as bottling from a fermzilla I have never tried doing that.

i havent had issues with my Fermzilla and yes i have seen stories  of leaks etc on them

i also agree on the manufacturing  side they are made cheap to keep prices down

i have found thound  if you are not trying to pressure ferment at 35 psi or greater   the product works great

the kegmenters can be  pressurised as well which is a good think

i have been thinking of  s/s fermenters  but my mrs would kill me if i did that at the moment


 

[Journeyman]

20 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

i have been thinking of  s/s fermenters  but my mrs would kill me if i did that at the moment

I've also been looking at the fermentasaurus G3 system. I kinda like the idea of the collection bottle being able to remove the yeast and trub so I am heading back to look at the larger fermzilla as comparison.

[Journeyman]

11 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I've also been looking at the fermentasaurus G3 system. I kinda like the idea of the collection bottle being able to remove the yeast and trub so I am heading back to look at the larger fermzilla as comparison.

Good thing pressure ferments don't need the fridge.  Those muthas are TALL!  

I'm liking the collecting jars though. Might have to make a cover to keep the light out and also provide some insulation against temp changes.

As an aside, anyone know how much pressure a screwtop FV with the rubber washer in can hold? Just wondering if I can start the travel down this new hole with one and using a grommet to stick the spunding valve in through the airlock hole - would it hold enough pressure to provide the advantage?