BREW DAY!! WATCHA’ GOT, EH? 2021

[Otto Von Blotto]

1 minute ago, iBooz2 said:

Just checked the numbers in a few of my past lager 90" boils.  The SG always went up by a minimum of 12 points, one was a high of 16 points but that had a small sugar addition at 15".

Your recipe does not have a sugar addition at 15" that was left out?  You re-calibrated your refrac with some distilled water at 20 C?  Sometimes I get a wild reading that is way out of what was expected so do a reset and take another sample and it usually tells closer to the truth.  And I always get the temp of sample to 20 C before taking a look at the numbers.  Just thinking out loud here....

I don't use sugar additions unless I'm doing a megaswill clone, or occasionally in English bitters. Hydrometer is used, sample cooled in a fridge while the wort comes up to boil, I think it got to about 33 degrees but I have a temperature adjustment app on my phone to correct it which is accurate. It actually read about 1.0345 at that temperature. And the post boil sample was sitting close enough to 20 degrees for it to not be out enough to notice, certainly was sitting at 1.046. 

I know my hydrometer reads .998 in 20°C distilled water, but it's meant to so it's accurate. 4°C is where they should read 1.000. 

Having done a quick calculation however, it appears that maybe it's actually correct. A 1.038 SG is about 100g/L of dissolved sugars giving around 3.12kg in the pre boil volume, reducing it to the 26 litres or so I ended up with takes it out to 120g/L or an SG of 1.0456.

[ben 10]

Put down a Spritzer today. 3 kgs Rice Malt Syrup, SN9 yeast and 21 litres of water.
Will dry berry it when done.

[kmar92]

45 minutes ago, Green Blob said:

Put down a Spritzer today. 3 kgs Rice Malt Syrup, SN9 yeast and 21 litres of water.
Will dry berry it when done.

Hey Blob, where do you get the rice malt syrup in that quantity?

[ben 10]

51 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Hey Blob, where do you get the rice malt syrup in that quantity?

Just bought 6 jars from woolies

[Otto Von Blotto]

Alright, here's the recipe from yesterday. Hasn't really changed from all the others except the hop amounts due to AA content.

Water and Treatment
33.00 L Distilled Water
0.5g Gypsum (CaSO4) (Mash)
0.44 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash)
0.32 g Calcium Chloride (Mash)

Grains
4.250 kg Bohemian Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.5 EBC) 94.1 %
0.150 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) 3.3 %
0.100 kg Acidulated (Weyermann) (4.5 EBC) 2.2 % 
0.015 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) 0.3 %
Mash at 63C for 50 mins, 72C for 30 mins, mash out 78C

Hops
32.00 g Saaz [4.30 %] - First Wort 110.0 min Hop 9 18.0 IBUs -
35.00 g Saaz [4.30 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 10 17.7 IBUs -
30.00 g Saaz [4.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 7.0 IBUs -
30.00 g Saaz [4.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 min, 90.2 Hop 12 3.5 IBUs

Yeast
Wyeast 2278 Czech Lager fermented at 12C. Usual lager schedule.

The Stats

Est Original Gravity: 1.0506 SG (measured 1.046)
Est Final Gravity: 1.0106 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 %
Bitterness: 46.2 IBUs
Est Color: 11.6 EBC

Brewhouse efficiency was pretty low for me at 68.2%, hopefully can improve that going forward as I'm usually in the mid 70s. As a result the ABV is a bit lower at 4.8% and the bitterness calc is a little higher at 47.8 IBUs but given the style and ingredients it'll still come out pretty smooth. It's probably not such a bad thing anyway as i was finding that these batches were tasting a bit less bitter than the real Urquell so maybe this will help get it more towards that bitterness level.

[jamiek86]

@Otto Von Blotto did you make a starter for that yeast or just one or 2 packs straight in?

[Otto Von Blotto]

47 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

@Otto Von Blotto did you make a starter for that yeast or just one or 2 packs straight in?

Starter. That way I can harvest some to reuse, and also to build up the cell count of course. I just pitched the pack into it earlier, had to make it up today as I didn't have enough extract, grabbed some today. 

[Norris!]

Too much water at the beginning? Maybe check the water loss from grains and lower that since the evaporation rate was where you expected. Just spit balling.

@Otto Von Blotto

[Otto Von Blotto]

Same amount I always use, usually the pre boil volume is a couple of litres lower than the strike volume so that lined up as well. The mash efficiency was a little lower than usual which didn't really help either. I might open up the mill gap slightly next batch, I tend to get better extraction when the grains are cracked open rather than crushed into small pieces. 

[iBooz2]

10 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Alright, here's the recipe from yesterday. Hasn't really changed from all the others except the hop amounts due to AA content.

Water and Treatment
33.00 L Distilled Water
0.5g Gypsum (CaSO4) (Mash)
0.44 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash)
0.32 g Calcium Chloride (Mash)

 

What water profile where you matching Otto? Pilsen?

[Otto Von Blotto]

48 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

What water profile where you matching Otto? Pilsen?

Pretty much yeah, I just left out any carbonate additions to allow the mash pH to drop to ideal range, although I didn't measure it on this occasion. I've been making them this way for years and they always turn out well. 

I tried one with untreated tap water once as an experiment, it was a bit dull in flavour by comparison. Too much chloride and carbonate in it for this style. 

[iBooz2]

Thanks Otto.  I am going to give one of these a crack with RO water and treat it for similar Pilsen profile.  I have just bought a fresh 25 kg  bag of Premium Pilsner Malt (WEY) and will use that instead of the floor malted stuff.  Also will be using Diamond Lager yeast as there is no 2278 yeast in stock at either local suppliers.  Just have to get a kilo of that Melanoidin Malt (WEY) in order to keep it close to your recipe and so I can make a few batches.

Edited June 28, 2021 by iBooz2

[Otto Von Blotto]

Should turn out well mate. I've tried a few different lager yeasts over the years, it's a little surprising how much different some of them make the finished beer taste. 

I'd like to get some 2001 urquell yeast again but 2278 is very similar. I've brewed a German type lager a few times using hallertau or hersbrucker, but sometimes used W34/70 and others used these pilsner yeasts, they do taste different. 

[Stickers]

cooper's scotch ale - first one from the keg so a little over poured but settled down pretty quickly. can definitely taste the amber extract in it, more thoughts later in the week once i've downed a few more

[Pezzza]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:48 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah, I think the potential for it to occur exists but given how long no chill has been a thing and how many people use it without any problems at all, you'd have to conclude that it's highly unlikely to be an issue. 

G'day Kelsey great to see you back and into it mate ; )

@Norris! Norris and @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey all of my beers are cooled down overnight with a fan blowing on them.

I have never had a problem AFAIK and no visiting tester has complained... 

I have limited rainwater supply - guess I could try to rig up a Blichmann Therminator or worse get a Glycol Chiller but for the time being I am not thinking that I need to do this... and if bllllllardy John Palmer (who has been around a while and brewing and into the science and practicality of things) thinks overnight is ok and the taste seems good... it is good enough for me.

It seems like DMS is a bigger issue for Lager/Pils v Pale Malt Styes and certainly a factor with respect to the Boil... must boil w lid off...

https://beerandbrewing.com/off-flavor-of-the-week-dms/

First things first. Your best option for controlling DMS is on the hot side (i.e., malt selection, mashing, and boiling). Sure, bacterial contamination can create DMS, but if infection is the issue, chances are your beer has bigger problems than a little corn flavor (actually, infection-related DMS will probably taste more like cabbage, celery, or even shrimp).

By far the most common culprit when it comes to DMS is very pale malt such as pilsner. The precursor compound to DMS, called S-methylmethionine (SMM), is produced during the germination of barley, a key step in malting. All but the very lightest malts have most of their SMM driven away during kilning, but lightly kilned malts hold on to as much as eight times as much SMM as standard pale malt (2-row).

When SMM is heated, such as during mashing or boiling, it begins to break down into DMS, but boiling actually drives much of it away. So boiling wort is good, and hot wort is bad. The moral? Boil like you mean it, and as soon as you’re done, cool that wort fast. And don’t cover the kettle during the boil or during cooling. All of that condensation that falls back into the boil pot is just dripping with DMS....

[I boil vigorously for minimum of an hour - then do put lid on to cool for sterilisation and prevention of any infection]

Unfortunately, lager styles, which usually exhibit a decidedly non-vigorous fermentation, can hold onto this DMS more readily, which means that light lagers such as Pilsner have the potential for a DMS double whammy: first from pils malt and second from gentler fermentation....

Consider replacing a portion of the pils malt with pale malt. Even the small amount of extra kilning gets rid of a great deal of SMM.
Stick to two-row barley malt unless you have a specific reason to use six-row (e.g., brewing an American adjunct lager or Pre-Prohibition Pilsner), as six-row’s higher protein content encourages SMM and DMS formation.

Extend your normal hour-long boil to 90 minutes. If you live at high elevation, where water boils at lower temperatures, you might even need a 2-hour boil.
Boil with vigor. Get a nice rolling boil, and don’t cover the pot until it’s cool. Chill wort rapidly. The longer it stays hot, the more SMM is converted to DMS.
Consider selecting a different yeast strain, especially for lagers, that ferments with enough oomph to scrub DMS.
Be sanitary. This goes for every beer you make, but avoiding contamination is fairly simple and prevents DMS-producing bacteria from spoiling your efforts.

And maybe my Lager/Pils favourite good ol' Dubbya 34 kicks aaarrrse and scrubs the DMS... and most of my ferments are fairly vigorous.

On 6/28/2021 at 4:48 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah, I think the potential for it to occur exists but given how long no chill has been a thing and how many people use it without any problems at all, you'd have to conclude that it's highly unlikely to be an issue. 

 

On 6/28/2021 at 4:23 PM, Norris! said:

At the end I just stopped commenting and had a homebrew. My beers don't have DMS or whatever so I am just going to let the whole convo leave my brain, but it stuck around long enough for me to double check something with someone I consider an excellent lager maker....otherwise known as a brewer. Thank you for that. Yeah I know it is anecdotal but for a lot of stuff that is all we really have.

Anyway I am with you @Norris! and @Otto Von Blotto that no chill is fine even for Lagers if you get all the other aspects right.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, never had an issue, although I'm not sure why anyone would boil any brew with the lid on, part of the process is to reduce volume and increase SG. Can't really do that if it's just dripping back in. 

I usually do put the lid on during the whirlpool though especially in this time of year because I don't want it cooling too much before it goes into a cube. Still haven't noticed any DMS. I'm careful removing it though to avoid dripping any back in. 

[BlackSands]

Another lower ABV/Carb partial went down today.   Modelled on an the basic specs for an ordinary bitter but adjusted to be more of an amber:

Amberillo Lite (20 litres)

• 1.7kg Coopers Lager
• 500g GF Munich
• 200g GF Shepherds Delight
• 200g GF Redback
• 50g Roasted Barley
• 25g Amarillo @5mins
• 25g Amarillo Steep
• Voss

|| OG=1.035 | IBU=34.5 | EBC=33 ||

 

50g Amarillo dry hop? hmmm...  

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by BlackSands

[Otto Von Blotto]

Made up a pale ale recipe to brew on Saturday, since there won't be much else to do if the weather forecast is on point. It's actually just a modified version of a previous batch to use what hops I have left in the freezer before I order more. I'll put up the whole thing next time I jump on the computer, pretty basic one with Cascade and galaxy late hopping and Lusty's favourite magnum for bittering. 

Plan is to pitch the pilsner batch on Saturday as well so I can reuse the cube for this batch, then do up a starter to pitch it next weekend. That way I can have both beers ready to keg at around the same time. Will probably do another couple of batches before these are kegged to keep production going while I drink them. 

[jamiek86]

@Otto Von Blotto don't let that production stop I once had 4 kegs full and didn't brew for a week. Then by time started again week ferment and week cold crash i was down to a keg and half. Because I like to age my pilsners a bit and only have one brew fridge it can get tricky. pilsner to age followed by a pale to gas and get into 

[Otto Von Blotto]

1 hour ago, jamiek86 said:

@Otto Von Blotto don't let that production stop I once had 4 kegs full and didn't brew for a week. Then by time started again week ferment and week cold crash i was down to a keg and half. Because I like to age my pilsners a bit and only have one brew fridge it can get tricky. pilsner to age followed by a pale to gas and get into 

Yeah I'll be keeping it going. I suppose it's easier for me having the capability to ferment two batches at the same time. If I brew again in 2 weeks and again the week after, it should be fine to get those batches into fermenters and kegged while the others are on tap. 

[jamiek86]

3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah I'll be keeping it going. I suppose it's easier for me having the capability to ferment two batches at the same time. If I brew again in 2 weeks and again the week after, it should be fine to get those batches into fermenters and kegged while the others are on tap. 

my current brew fridge struggles with the cold crash during warmer months but is fine to brew with. I might have to upgrade the drink fridge and use it as second brew fridge. It can then do all the cold crashing and the other the brewing. also when weather warms up I can do some batches in bottles to keep stocks up as I'm not keen on owning more than 4 kegs happy with the 4. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

1 hour ago, jamiek86 said:

my current brew fridge struggles with the cold crash during warmer months but is fine to brew with. I might have to upgrade the drink fridge and use it as second brew fridge. It can then do all the cold crashing and the other the brewing. also when weather warms up I can do some batches in bottles to keep stocks up as I'm not keen on owning more than 4 kegs happy with the 4. 

Yeah one of mine struggles a bit in the warmer weather, I usually reserve it for lagers which I "cold crash" at a bit warmer temps than other beers. I have 7 kegs, although one is on permanent soda water duty so 6 for beer. I only have two beers on tap at a time so I won't need any more kegs, but it saves me having to bottle any of it. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 31.00 L
Post Boil Volume: 26.50 L
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Bottling Volume: 19.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.0498 SG
Estimated Color: 14.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.50 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.3 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
33.00 L          Distilled Water                                  Water         1          -             -             
7.79 g           Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)                  Water Agent   2          -             -             
5.04 g           Calcium Chloride (Mash)                          Water Agent   3          -             -             
3.67 g           Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash)                        Water Agent   4          -             -             
2.70 g           Salt (Mash)                                      Water Agent   5          -             -             
4.000 kg         Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)       Grain         6          87.0 %        2.61 L        
0.300 kg         Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC)                 Grain         7          6.5 %         0.20 L        
0.200 kg         Crystal Malt - Medium (Thomas Fawcett) (150.0 EB Grain         8          4.3 %         0.13 L        
0.100 kg         Acidulated (Weyermann) (4.5 EBC)                 Grain         9          2.2 %         0.07 L        
11.00 g          Hallertau Magnum [11.10 %] - Boil 75.0 min       Hop           10         14.1 IBUs     -             
40.00 g          Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min                 Hop           11         10.3 IBUs     -             
20.00 g          Galaxy [12.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  15.0 min, 90 Hop           12         6.7 IBUs      -             
30.00 g          Galaxy [12.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  5.0 min, 90. Hop           13         4.1 IBUs      -             
20.00 g          Cascade [6.40 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  5.0 min, 90. Hop           14         1.4 IBUs      -             
1.0 pkg          American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml]     Yeast         15         -             -             


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.600 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification  Add 33.81 L of water at 69.0 C          66.0 C        75 min        
Mash Out          Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min               75.6 C        10 min        

Those five minute steeps are cube hops. Just about to fill the urn, add the mineral salts and get it heating up to strike temperature to get this batch going.

[iBooz2]

16 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Those five minute steeps are cube hops. Just about to fill the urn, add the mineral salts and get it heating up to strike temperature to get this batch going.

Be interested in what you PH does during the mash etc. Otto.  If you get time during your brew day can you record the numbers for me. Thanks

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah I'll try and grab a sample to test pH once the mash is underway. Beersmith predicted it to be at approx. 5.3, which I'm happy with if it ends up there.