Coffee in Brew

[kayak phil]

Hi All Fellow Brewers,

                                     I have been brewing for a number of years and have always used the KISS (method ie Keep it simple ect,) how ever recently 

                                     I have been putting Nescafe instant coffee in the Wort of Coppers Dark Ale , I have also used Cocco as well though I have only roughly 

                                     Mesured  the quanity  of each , I have started using light dry Malt Coopers as well also either brewing enhancher 3 and B,E,3 or plain white sugar .

                                   I recently mixed Maconna  Caramel and Nes cafe  together but did not like it that much and have been mixing either lemonade and more recently 

                                  Coopers Commercial stout like a Back and Tan which to me gives it a nice taste.

                                  Interested to know if any one else has done similar methods ,  Or any  other simple recipes that I could try my usual brew is the Daker Ales.

                                  Kayak Phil.

                                    

[Journeyman]

7 minutes ago, kayak phil said:

Interested to know if any one else has done similar methods ,  Or any  other simple recipes that I could try my usual brew is the Daker Ales.

I made a Coopers Stout & Dark Ale stout and added 100g fresh ground coffee beans with a dessertspoon of vanilla extract as a 'dry hop' - did it day 4 and FG was day 7. Worked very well but next time I will do 75g of the beans and make the vanilla a tablespoon. The vanilla kinda gets lost in the coffee - also some others who have tried it thought the coffee too strong. But to me it's a very nice drop indeed.

I'm not a fan of instant coffee so I have no idea what that would do to a stout or dark beer. I haven't used any of the BE's since I discovered LDME and I normally use raw sugar instead of white. The sugar goes into a yeast starter rather than added to the wort. So usually 200g - 300g in 3 litres water, then pitch the yeast, wait a couple of hours (usually as I am preparing the rest) then pitch the lot into the FV.

Some guys on here swear by LME instead of LDME and I intend to try 2 brew experiment where the 2 are the same except for that ingredient and see - I've been using LME but it's hard to tell if it is better when each brew is different.

[Hairy]

Cold steep freshly ground coffee overnight and add the liquid to the FV (after straining the coffee).

It would go well in the dark ale or stout.

[beach_life]

Lemonade, Moccona caramel, nescafe instant...

WOW, I thought I tried some different things in my beer.

[Oldbloke]

Old thread. However I add 1 or 2 cups of plunger coffee to my stout. Goes in the FV at the start. I like it.  Can add stuff like plumb jam. Not bad. But stick to coffee now.

[Classic Brewing Co]

For what it's worth I am a coffee lover but I have never added it to any of my Stouts. I do add LME But the last one I made I used Wheat Malt Extract & I found it to be the best Stout I have ever made. I did get the rich chocolate/coffee taste even without adding any. So to add any to me would be unnecessary, however I am not saying it hasn't got a place.

I have done a few Toucans with Coopers Stout & Dark Ale, some of the early one's were done with BE3 but since I have added the LME instead - a whole new ball game. Whether adding coffee would make it any better is hard to know, maybe I will try.

 

[Oldbloke]

I've also added chocolate essence. 

[jamiek86]

reminds me of buzz beer from the drew Carey show. Stay awake to get drunk all over again.

Edited January 30, 2022 by jamiek86

[Brauhaus Fritz]

I've done a Coffee infused Oatmeal Stout (Black Rock), just added a double shot of my finest espresso into the wort and used a lager yeast 'cause winter temperatures were quiet low. It matured beautifully, very subtle coffee flavour.

Also made a Morgan's Double Choc Stout with Crème de Cacao Essence. That one was soooo good.

Also made two versions of the Mister Sinister Recipe, one as is and one with Morgan's Dark Ale and Chocolate Malt. Two absolute stunners and with 7.8% and 8.7% quiet potent.

Just be patient, as all four brews got better with time (4-6 month)

As a beginners brewer (less than a year) I have to say that all above recipes were straight forward and easy to do

Would I brew them all again?  Hell yeah...

[Vincent]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:55 PM, Classic Brewing Co said:

For what it's worth I am a coffee lover but I have never added it to any of my Stouts. I do add LME But the last one I made I used Wheat Malt Extract & I found it to be the best Stout I have ever made. I did get the rich chocolate/coffee taste even without adding any. So to add any to me would be unnecessary, however I am not saying it hasn't got a place.

I have done a few Toucans with Coopers Stout & Dark Ale, some of the early one's were done with BE3 but since I have added the LME instead - a whole new ball game. Whether adding coffee would make it any better is hard to know, maybe I will try.

 

Wheat Malt Extract is very under rated. There's less than 70% wheat in the can. I use it in all brews except stout. The wheat gives much better head retention and a less caramel taste that the other malt extracts give. Add 1-1.5ml of low carb enzyme as well to get a good dry crips finish.

[Classic Brewing Co]

9 hours ago, Vincent said:

Wheat Malt Extract is very under rated. There's less than 70% wheat in the can. I use it in all brews except stout. The wheat gives much better head retention and a less caramel taste that the other malt extracts give. Add 1-1.5ml of low carb enzyme as well to get a good dry crips finish.

I mainly do AG brews now, so I get to use the real wheat malt, I have been reading up on it & found lots of interesting facts.

I like the German Wheat beers a lot & also the addition to Ales/Pale Ales/XPA's for what it brings to the brew.

I have never bothered with enzymes.

The Oxford Companion to Beer definition of

wheat malt

Wheat Malt is the second most common malted grain used in brewing, after barley malt. Typical wheat-accented brews are German weissbier (also known as hefeweizen or weizenbier), which must contain at least 50% wheat malt by law; German Berliner weisse, a sour, sparkling ale, whose wheat malt portion rarely exceeds 30%; and the more modern “American wheat beer,” which usually contains 10% to 35% malted wheat. Some American craft brewers have recently become enamored of a barley wine variant dubbed “wheat wine,” replacing a large proportion of barley malt in the grist with wheat malt. Because modern wheat (Triticum aestivum) has a relatively high glucan and protein content compared to barley and has no husks—properties that can create lauter problems in the brewhouse—mashes rarely contain more than 70% wheat malt. Some adventurous brewers have made beers from 100% wheat malt, but this feat invariable requires a number of tricks in the brewhouse, as the husk-less grain cannot create its own filter bed through which to run off the wort.

When used in beer, wheat malt imparts a lighter body than does barley malt, often coupled with a gently refreshing touch of acidity. These qualities tend to make many wheat-based beer styles suitable for pairing with light dishes and seafood, and consumption of wheat beer tends to soar in hot weather. Contrary to popular misconception, the banana and clove-like flavors of German wheat beers are due to the special yeast used rather than the use of wheat malts. Wheat malts do, however, give these beers their delicacy of texture. Most wheat malts will tend to create a wort with a honey-orange color, but different malting houses will have their own specifications, and dark wheat malts are now available as well. In modern Bavaria, wheat-based weissbier was once a particular province of the Bavarian royal family, who held to themselves the right to brew wheat beers until finally giving way in 1872. Until then, wheat, valuable for making bread and other foods, was considered too lofty an ingredient to be used to make beer for commoners.

[ChairmanDrew]

14 hours ago, Vincent said:

 Add 1-1.5ml of low carb enzyme as well to get a good dry crips finish.

A bit off topic (but the coffee will be interesting for when I ever try out a stout), but I'm interested in this. For the last little while, outside of homebrew, I've been mostly drinking low carb beers. Does adding this enzyme actually result in measurably less carbs? If so, I wouldnt mind trying the next time I do a lagery style brew.

[Shamus O'Sean]

39 minutes ago, ChairmanDrew said:

A bit off topic (but the coffee will be interesting for when I ever try out a stout), but I'm interested in this. For the last little while, outside of homebrew, I've been mostly drinking low carb beers. Does adding this enzyme actually result in measurably less carbs? If so, I wouldnt mind trying the next time I do a lagery style brew.

Enzymes produce lower carb beers by allowing you to make a beer to a target ABV using less fermentables.  My Final Gravities, when using dry enzymes, have come in around 1.000.  So if I wanted to make a 4.2% ABV beer, I could use a 1.7kg can of goop and 300g of Light Dry Malt for an Original Gravity of 1.039.  If I was not using dry enzymes, I would need 1kg of LDM in the same beer to get to 4.2%.  These calculations include an extra 0.4% ABV from bottle priming.

One thing to note is the above dry enzyme recipe will seem more bitter because it does not have the same amount of fermentables offsetting the bitterness in the concentrate.  However, this "extra" bitterness might help with the crisp refreshing nature of the beer.

Dry enzymes in a given beer will also give you a higher ABV.  So a 1.7kg can of goop plus 1kg of LDM should come out around 5.5% ABV.  But if you start with the same amount of fermentables, do you still end up with the same amount of carbohydrates?  If the fermentables are converted to CO2 and alcohol by yeast, are they still carbohydrates?  I do not know.  Maybe one of the scientist brewers can chime in.

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

But if you start with the same amount of fermentables, do you still end up with the same amount of carbohydrates?  If the fermentables are converted to CO2 and alcohol by yeast, are they still carbohydrates?  I do not know.  Maybe one of the scientist brewers can chime in.

I'm not a scientist and still very much a novice brewer, but CO2 is not a carbohydrate. Alcohol is not technically a carbohydrate, either, but in terms of calculating dietary energy input it can be considered the same thing.

[Vincent]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:08 AM, Classic Brewing Co said:

I mainly do AG brews now, so I get to use the real wheat malt, I have been reading up on it & found lots of interesting facts.

I like the German Wheat beers a lot & also the addition to Ales/Pale Ales/XPA's for what it brings to the brew.

I have never bothered with enzymes.

The Oxford Companion to Beer definition of

wheat malt

Wheat Malt is the second most common malted grain used in brewing, after barley malt. Typical wheat-accented brews are German weissbier (also known as hefeweizen or weizenbier), which must contain at least 50% wheat malt by law; German Berliner weisse, a sour, sparkling ale, whose wheat malt portion rarely exceeds 30%; and the more modern “American wheat beer,” which usually contains 10% to 35% malted wheat. Some American craft brewers have recently become enamored of a barley wine variant dubbed “wheat wine,” replacing a large proportion of barley malt in the grist with wheat malt. Because modern wheat (Triticum aestivum) has a relatively high glucan and protein content compared to barley and has no husks—properties that can create lauter problems in the brewhouse—mashes rarely contain more than 70% wheat malt. Some adventurous brewers have made beers from 100% wheat malt, but this feat invariable requires a number of tricks in the brewhouse, as the husk-less grain cannot create its own filter bed through which to run off the wort.

When used in beer, wheat malt imparts a lighter body than does barley malt, often coupled with a gently refreshing touch of acidity. These qualities tend to make many wheat-based beer styles suitable for pairing with light dishes and seafood, and consumption of wheat beer tends to soar in hot weather. Contrary to popular misconception, the banana and clove-like flavors of German wheat beers are due to the special yeast used rather than the use of wheat malts. Wheat malts do, however, give these beers their delicacy of texture. Most wheat malts will tend to create a wort with a honey-orange color, but different malting houses will have their own specifications, and dark wheat malts are now available as well. In modern Bavaria, wheat-based weissbier was once a particular province of the Bavarian royal family, who held to themselves the right to brew wheat beers until finally giving way in 1872. Until then, wheat, valuable for making bread and other foods, was considered too lofty an ingredient to be used to make beer for commoners.

I too was an AG 3 vessel HERMS brewer and had many excellent results with wheat ratios of 60-70%. Yeast selection tends to have the most variance on flavour changes in this % range, so do your homework.  Low carb enzyme which I use extensively gives both the crisp finish and keeps residual sugars to a minimum, which is good if you want to keep the breadbasket under control.

[ChairmanDrew]

Keeping this topic alive...

Is it better to basically make a plunger full of coffee and pour that in? (and at what stage?) Or "dry hop" the beans themselves? The former option certainly sounds like a more economical use of the coffee at least.

Should add in regards to using a can of Coopers Stout extract.

Edited May 25 by ChairmanDrew

[Brauhaus Fritz]

6 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Keeping this topic alive...

Is it better to basically make a plunger full of coffee and pour that in? (and at what stage?) Or "dry hop" the beans themselves? The former option certainly sounds like a more economical use of the coffee at least.

Should add in regards to using a can of Coopers Stout extract.

I did a double shot ristretto fom my coffee machine and poured it into the wort before fermenting. Created a nice subtle flavor. Heard about the bean method as well, but does not really make sense to me, how the whole bean gives out flavor. maybe someone can explain

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Keeping this topic alive...

Is it better to basically make a plunger full of coffee and pour that in? (and at what stage?) Or "dry hop" the beans themselves? The former option certainly sounds like a more economical use of the coffee at least.

Should add in regards to using a can of Coopers Stout extract.

There are two Coopers recipes that use whole coffee beans as a dry hop:

• Laneway Latte Stout  9 litre batch uses 35g of coffee beans
• White With One Dark Ale  20 litre batch uses 100g of coffee beans

Unfortunately neither uses the Stout extract.  However, with the White With One Dark Ale you could substitute out the English Bitter and Amber Malt Extract cans and replace them with the Coopers Stout can and a can of Light Malt Extract for a very similar beer. 

I am not sure about the influence of whole versus ground coffee beans.  One of the coffee buffs on here could help out though.

I did a Coopers recipe called Jitter Juice in 2018.  It was dry hopped with 35g of coffee beans.  The coffee notes were obvious in that brew.  This recipe is not on the website because the can it is made from, Winter Dark Ale, is discontinued.  But the ingredients are here:

1.3kg Mr Beer Winter Dark Ale (Similar to Coopers Dark Ale)
250g Mr Beer Smooth Malt Extract (Similar to Amber Malt Extract)
250g Mr Beer Robust Malt Extract (Similar to Dark Malt Extract)
35g Coffee Beans - Dry Added
11.5g Safale US-05 Dry Yeast

You play around with other ingredients to come up with a recipe close to this one.

[Kegory]

Liam uses coffee beans in Coopers Adding Flavours To Your Beer video

[ChairmanDrew]

3 hours ago, Kegory said:

Liam uses coffee beans in Coopers Adding Flavours To Your Beer video

250gm is a hell of a lot of coffee beans. I saw a video of Simple Homebrew on youtube where he used 200gm, which still sounds huge (that's a whole small pack)

4 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

There are two Coopers recipes that use whole coffee beans as a dry hop:

• Laneway Latte Stout  9 litre batch uses 35g of coffee beans
• White With One Dark Ale  20 litre batch uses 100g of coffee beans

 

This sounds a bit more conservative.

 

7 hours ago, Brauhaus Fritz said:

I did a double shot ristretto fom my coffee machine and poured it into the wort before fermenting. Created a nice subtle flavor. Heard about the bean method as well, but does not really make sense to me, how the whole bean gives out flavor. maybe someone can explain

If you reckon this worked alright I'll probably go this route. Subtle sounds good to me too. Seeing as my brew is going to be pretty simple I probably dont want to be going overkill on the coffee flavour, in case it unbalances things. But I'm also skeptical as to how dunking whole beans into cold liquid will extract flavour in any extraordinary way, as opposed to just doing it the way we do to drink the stuff normally. I mean, it could, I'd just have to have it explained how.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 hours ago, Kegory said:

Liam uses coffee beans in Coopers Adding Flavours To Your Beer video

I have never added any coffee to stout, but it doesn't mean you can't. IMO most stouts have a subtle taste of hickory, chocolate, coffee anyway.

[ChairmanDrew]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I have never added any coffee to stout, but it doesn't mean you can't. IMO most stouts have a subtle taste of hickory, chocolate, coffee anyway.

I would think stout would be the first style that comes to mind when adding coffee. As you say, there are often subtle notes of coffee to stout anyway. There is a local microbrewery here that does a coffee porter, which from memory was pretty good, but also pretty strong on the coffee (as in, it will keep you up at night). Would be interesting to know how he did it.

[Oldbloke]

I often add a cup of black plunger  coffee to a stout. 

 

You could just add a heaped table spoon of dark ground coffee (or your fav coffee grounds) to about 1-2 cups hot water.  Allow it to soak about 10 minutes, then strain the coffee into the fv.

Edited May 26 by Oldbloke

[Kegory]

4 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

But I'm also skeptical as to how dunking whole beans into cold liquid will extract flavour in any extraordinary way, as opposed to just doing it the way we do to drink the stuff normally. I mean, it could, I'd just have to have it explained how.

I haven't done it myself, and I'm no expert on chemistry, but I assume that because the beans are in the fermenter for days on end and the fermenter is warm there's enough of a reaction to extract some flavour. But that's also probably why large quantities are needed.

[Kegory]

4 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I have never added any coffee to stout, but it doesn't mean you can't. IMO most stouts have a subtle taste of hickory, chocolate, coffee anyway.

Agreed. I assume that manipulations of the grain bill and whatnot can intensify these characteristics and produce distinctly coffee flavours without the need for adding coffee itself. I plan to visit Cavalier Brewing some time soon and ask them how they did it. Their Imperial Stout had intense coffee flavours and aroma.