New All Grain setup

[iBooz2]

13 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

im not saying that you can’t do this with other brands and models I’m just saying that the G70 works for me. 

Yes Captain I looked at all those when I was investigating buying my gear.  The turn off was un-serviceable parts.  For example the heating element and pump assemblies.  If either one of those dies when out of warranty its only worth scrap metal value.

I like to be able to fix stuff and use it forever.

[Marty_G]

12 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Yes Captain I looked at all those when I was investigating buying my gear.  The turn off was un-serviceable parts.  For example the heating element and pump assemblies.  If either one of those dies when out of warranty its only worth scrap metal value.

I like to be able to fix stuff and use it forever.

I am the same about fixing stuff. I know loads of people love the all in ones. I recently had a good think about changing to one but in the end it was the old what happens when it F's up that stopped me.   So I am sticking with my 2 vessel BIAB set up.   

 

[The Captain!!]

13 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Yes Captain I looked at all those when I was investigating buying my gear.  The turn off was un-serviceable parts.  For example the heating element and pump assemblies.  If either one of those dies when out of warranty its only worth scrap metal value.

I like to be able to fix stuff and use it forever.

That’s a fair call. 
I don’t have the time to fix and stuff up so I would send away if I could otherwise buy a new one. 

[Pezzza]

14 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

I’ll be upgrading to a glycol set up soon enough

Got your eye on anything in particular Kapitan?  Not cheap but ripper fast cooling and no water required except I guess for flushing lines?

[The Captain!!]

3 hours ago, Graubart said:

Got your eye on anything in particular Kapitan?  Not cheap but ripper fast cooling and no water required except I guess for flushing lines?

Either the SS brew tech gear that I can expand as I turn my system to a pilot brew set or brew tools with the SS brew tech glycol, or grainfather and just keep this set up for home

[The Captain!!]

On 9/13/2021 at 1:06 PM, The Captain!! said:

Either the SS brew tech gear that I can expand as I turn my system to a pilot brew set or brew tools with the SS brew tech glycol, or grainfather and just keep this set up for home

So I’ve just been told that Grainfather are coming out with some new equipment to compliment the G70. Thinking it’s bigger FVs and Glycol chiller. If it is that, I’ll be pressing order pretty bloody soon.

[stquinto]

Got a cuppla questions for you all-grainers if I may: I'm thinking of having a bash at BIAB and have checked out the forum as well as the internet, mainly yank stuff. Some of the internet info seems to be a bit contradictory. 

I've got a pot (bit of a cheapo), with dodgy-looking handles that I really wouldn't want to lift it by. I think it is about 16 litres (it's not a proper kettle so has no internal measurements for litres, nor a tap at the bottom. But it was cheap...).I use it on the cooker in the kitchen. I've got a 25 litre bag. I'm off to get an industrial-size sieve/colander so I will be able to hang it over the edge and drain it.

I was thinking of brewing half batches, as the kettle isn't big enough, and I can't setup a winch/pulleys etc. in the kitchen so I reckon the grains in the half batch would probably be OK to lift.

The questions I had were:

• how finely do you have your grains milled ?
• is it worth rinsing the bag once it's draining with more water at about 70° ?
• do you put the grains in once you get the water to 70° ? - there's no false bottom so wouldn't want to scorch anything heating it up
• how long do milled grains stay fresh ?
• if I have some grains already, that haven't been milled, and I stick them on the blender ( food mixer of will I just end up with flour ?

Appreciate any info for a rookie would-be grainer

 

[The Captain!!]

3 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Got a cuppla questions for you all-grainers if I may: I'm thinking of having a bash at BIAB and have checked out the forum as well as the internet, mainly yank stuff. Some of the internet info seems to be a bit contradictory. 

I've got a pot (bit of a cheapo), with dodgy-looking handles that I really wouldn't want to lift it by. I think it is about 16 litres (it's not a proper kettle so has no internal measurements for litres, nor a tap at the bottom. But it was cheap...).I use it on the cooker in the kitchen. I've got a 25 litre bag. I'm off to get an industrial-size sieve/colander so I will be able to hang it over the edge and drain it.

I was thinking of brewing half batches, as the kettle isn't big enough, and I can't setup a winch/pulleys etc. in the kitchen so I reckon the grains in the half batch would probably be OK to lift.

The questions I had were:

• how finely do you have your grains milled ?
• is it worth rinsing the bag once it's draining with more water at about 70° ?
• do you put the grains in once you get the water to 70° ? - there's no false bottom so wouldn't want to scorch anything heating it up
• how long do milled grains stay fresh ?
• if I have some grains already, that haven't been milled, and I stick them on the blender ( food mixer of will I just end up with flour ?

Appreciate any info for a rookie would-be grainer

 

Hey mate,

I hand lift my double batches in the G70 mate. You’ll be fine to lift a few kilos of grain from a pot. 
I milk my grains farly chunky. Probably have a mm or 2 for the grains to passed through. 
it is worth rinsing (sparging) as long as you’ve accounted for the extra volume for the water. 
 

I usually go a degree or so higher than the mash temp but if your mini mashing I’d say only a degree. 
Ive made beers with milled grains a year old and it was fine. Not ideal but fine. 
best to crack them rather than turn them to powder. Put em in a bag and bash the bajesus out of em with a roller.

[stquinto]

This is the pot and wort cooler I have, with my last extract boil. The most I dare lift it is to put in on a wooden chopping block so I don't crack the counter top (which would remind SWMBO of what a good idea it was to get married  )

[stquinto]

1 minute ago, The Captain!! said:

Hey mate,

I hand lift my double batches in the G70 mate. You’ll be fine to lift a few kilos of grain from a pot. 
I milk my grains farly chunky. Probably have a mm or 2 for the grains to passed through. 
it is worth rinsing (sparging) as long as you’ve accounted for the extra volume for the water. 
 

I usually go a degree or so higher than the mash temp but if your mini mashing I’d say only a degree. 
Ive made beers with milled grains a year old and it was fine. Not ideal but fine. 
best to crack them rather than turn them to powder. Put em in a bag and bash the bajesus out of em with a roller.

Thanks Captain !

 

[iBooz2]

26 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Got a cuppla questions for you all-grainers if I may: I'm thinking of having a bash at BIAB and have checked out the forum as well as the internet, mainly yank stuff. Some of the internet info seems to be a bit contradictory. 

I've got a pot (bit of a cheapo), with dodgy-looking handles that I really wouldn't want to lift it by. I think it is about 16 litres (it's not a proper kettle so has no internal measurements for litres, nor a tap at the bottom. But it was cheap...).I use it on the cooker in the kitchen. I've got a 25 litre bag. I'm off to get an industrial-size sieve/colander so I will be able to hang it over the edge and drain it.

I was thinking of brewing half batches, as the kettle isn't big enough, and I can't setup a winch/pulleys etc. in the kitchen so I reckon the grains in the half batch would probably be OK to lift.

The questions I had were:

• how finely do you have your grains milled ?
• is it worth rinsing the bag once it's draining with more water at about 70° ?
• do you put the grains in once you get the water to 70° ? - there's no false bottom so wouldn't want to scorch anything heating it up
• how long do milled grains stay fresh ?
• if I have some grains already, that haven't been milled, and I stick them on the blender ( food mixer of will I just end up with flour ?

Appreciate any info for a rookie would-be grainer

 

If you can get a colander that will sit across the rim of your pot that will do the trick.

I can lift 4.5 kg wet grain in my BIABasket system easily enough so you should be able to lift your bag up, slip the colander underneath and let drain without a problem.  The weight of the wet grains in the bag is enough to push the wort out, you don’t need to squeeze it but you can sort of sparge with say a kettle full of 75 C water.  The warmer the sparge water the more liquid the sugars become and this helps to drop them through the grain bed quicker but do not go any hotter or near boiling with sparge water as it will seep out all sorts of tannins and taint the wort.

I mill mine fresh at slightly less than the recommended gap of 1 mm in my grain mill because I have found this about right for me.  Also have used grains that have been pre milled for a month or more because I had to and did not notice too much of a problem.

Yes wait until your water is at strike temp say 65 or 67 before dunking the bag full of grain and start your mash time from the point when all the grains are fully wet and the water has stabilized at the desired mash temp.

@Journeyman can assist with info on milling grains with a coffee grinder etc. so please wait for his input here.

Edited September 16, 2021 by iBooz2

[stquinto]

@iBooz2 thanks mate ! Come to think of it, I have one of those old hand-grinders for coffee. Might take me a while. 'Spose I could get one of my kids on to it.... (fat chance...)

[iBooz2]

@stquinto The partial mashing or full mashing of grains as in AG adds another total dimension to your brewing and will be a skill you will use time and time again because it just makes so much difference.

I liken it to marinating or adding a dry rub on some meat in readiness for a BBQ or smoke house cook up.  Just adds something that you just cannot get without that process.  You will know what I mean.

[stquinto]

2 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@stquinto The partial mashing or full mashing of grains as in AG adds another total dimension to your brewing and will be a skill you will use time and time again because it just makes so much difference.

I liken it to marinating or adding a dry rub on some meat in readiness for a BBQ or smoke house cook up.  Just adds something that you just cannot get without that process.  You will know what I mean.

Got you on that one mate 

I reckon it's time to give it a go. I would love to go the grainfather route, but I'm concerned that if my brew day took forever I might do it less. But I am sure that it would make a hell of a difference, there are so many recipes I would like to try out.

I hardly need any more kit than what I have. I'm getting into kegging, which obviously is its own expense.

If the BIAB works out I'll invest in a decent kettle. I've got my eye on one, and I can get stuff through the post easily enough from Germany . But I'll give this one a bash first.

[ozdevil]

7 hours ago, stquinto said:

Got you on that one mate 

I reckon it's time to give it a go. I would love to go the grainfather route, but I'm concerned that if my brew day took forever I might do it less. But I am sure that it would make a hell of a difference, there are so many recipes I would like to try out.

I hardly need any more kit than what I have. I'm getting into kegging, which obviously is its own expense.

If the BIAB works out I'll invest in a decent kettle. I've got my eye on one, and I can get stuff through the post easily enough from Germany . But I'll give this one a bash first.

My opinion only   

I would hold of in buying a grainfather  at the moment  you could nearly purchase both the 35l and 65l brewzilla or gutens for the  price of Grainfather.

the reason i say hold off  is that Kegland  is soon to be releasing the brewzilla 4.0 which is going to be alt different to the  current version of brewzilla   as the control box will be  at manageble height where ya dont have to lay down to change settings.  also will be bluetooth and wifi enabled   with a few more features  and will be alot less in price then the grainfather.

dont get me wrong Grainfather is a great unit but doesnt make better beer thenthe brewzilla or guten  and i think  brewzilla has a few more accessories to add if you want them then the grainfather

having said that i love the looks of the G70  in the grainfather though looks a very impressive unit

[Journeyman]

8 hours ago, stquinto said:

@iBooz2 thanks mate ! Come to think of it, I have one of those old hand-grinders for coffee. Might take me a while. 'Spose I could get one of my kids on to it.... (fat chance...)

Depends on what it's like - you want burr grinders for doing the grains, as the ones with spinning blades tend to make powder. I use a Sunbeam EM-0480 grinder, they come with a couple of shims under the burrs so I remove them and then dialled it out as coarse as it would go.  Works great but only about 300g at a time.  Good for partial mashes but it would get old trying to do 5 kg each time.

Those handles will be fine - if you can lift the water onto the stove you can lift water and grains off again. In fact for the same level in the pot, water and grain will be lighter than the equivalent of just water. If it's really a concern, duck into BigW and get one of their 19L pots - massive $20 in cost with a glass lid.

[stquinto]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:15 AM, Journeyman said:

Depends on what it's like - you want burr grinders for doing the grains, as the ones with spinning blades tend to make powder. I use a Sunbeam EM-0480 grinder, they come with a couple of shims under the burrs so I remove them and then dialled it out as coarse as it would go.  Works great but only about 300g at a time.  Good for partial mashes but it would get old trying to do 5 kg each time.

Those handles will be fine - if you can lift the water onto the stove you can lift water and grains off again. In fact for the same level in the pot, water and grain will be lighter than the equivalent of just water. If it's really a concern, duck into BigW and get one of their 19L pots - massive $20 in cost with a glass lid.

@Journeyman cheers mate for that. I'm looking at either a cast iron grinder (quite cheap) with a handle, or a Grain Gorilla at 3 times the price:

The gorilla has rollers and the cheapo iron one blades that shear . Do you reckon the gorilla is worth it ? I wouldn't be making a sh*t load, a cuppla brews a month, and to begin with 11.5 litre batches using BIAB. But if it goes well I'd get a bigger kettle, probably electric, as I can't see a kitchen induction cooker managing a full boil I would be a bit reluctant to use propane inside the house, not sure I could keep it properly ventilated at the moment (getting into winter here). Cheers 

[Journeyman]

6 hours ago, stquinto said:

@Journeyman cheers mate for that. I'm looking at either a cast iron grinder (quite cheap) with a handle, or a Grain Gorilla at 3 times the price:

The gorilla has rollers and the cheapo iron one blades that shear . Do you reckon the gorilla is worth it ? I wouldn't be making a sh*t load, a cuppla brews a month, and to begin with 11.5 litre batches using BIAB. But if it goes well I'd get a bigger kettle, probably electric, as I can't see a kitchen induction cooker managing a full boil I would be a bit reluctant to use propane inside the house, not sure I could keep it properly ventilated at the moment (getting into winter here). Cheers 

I mentioned burrs re your hand grinder but I certainly wouldn't go buying a bean smasher. (blades) they are bad even for coffee - maybe making plunger it would be OK but they make far too much powder for espresso. Or brews... 

I've not seen the Gorilla brand mentioned before so I don't know the quality - it may be OK for small batches but the general word seems to be go for quality like Mill Master.(I think that's the brand) but they are expensive.

The grain gorilla, on a quick look around on duckduckgo seems a decent machine - only neg comment was the hopper is a bit small for 5kg loads - not going to be your problem for now and I doubt having to do a refill once will be too much hassle. Users seem happy with it.

EDIT: Where are you getting the Grain Gorilla - looking for reviews etc. everything seems to be EU based?

Edited September 21, 2021 by Journeyman

[Shamus O'Sean]

@stquinto I would go with the Grain Gorilla.

I bought a Victoria Grain Mill to start with.

Good for about 300 grams at a time.  It was handy for cracking the small grain additions in the Coopers Recipes of the Month.

When I went all grain, I bought one similar to the Grain Gorilla.  Its hopper can hold about 3kg of grain.  I added a home made cardboard hopper extension that can hold about 7kg of grain.  I, like many, remove the handle and fit a high torque low speed power drill to the spindle.  It takes a few minutes to chew through 6kg of grain.

I have never used the Victoria Grain Mill since.  Even for cracking 200g of specialty grain, I pull out the proper grain mill, refit the handle and crank out the crushed grain in a minute or two. 

[Aussiekraut]

7 hours ago, stquinto said:

@Journeyman cheers mate for that. I'm looking at either a cast iron grinder (quite cheap) with a handle, or a Grain Gorilla at 3 times the price:

The gorilla has rollers and the cheapo iron one blades that shear . Do you reckon the gorilla is worth it ? I wouldn't be making a sh*t load, a cuppla brews a month, and to begin with 11.5 litre batches using BIAB. But if it goes well I'd get a bigger kettle, probably electric, as I can't see a kitchen induction cooker managing a full boil I would be a bit reluctant to use propane inside the house, not sure I could keep it properly ventilated at the moment (getting into winter here). Cheers 

I'd go for the roller. I bought an el cheapo 2 roll mill and it works a treat for my needs. Just do yourself a favour and replace the crank with a power drill. 

[ozdevil]

I would only go for a 2 roller mill, as much as i have heard mill masters are great due to using flukes not knurl type

3 roller can be a bit tricky to set up

I have both a 3 roller and 2 roller and i more then often just go for the 2 roller as it is easier to set up 

and i agree with others ditch the cranking of the handle   get a good drill with high torque and low speed

 

[Pezzza]

@stquinto The Saint mate these Millmaster Grain Mills are the Duck's Nutttts in Aussie... as noted by @ozdevil Ozzy above... 'Tis Frank in Everton Park in Bris... got mine a few years ago fortunately as they have gone up in price monumentally so the pricepoint is challenging now... funnily from memory the aluminium hopper has not gone up... just the mill... more than double... probs cost of Stainless Steel maybe?  The Master @Otto Von Blotto Otto put me onto it originally... and the festive little micro/originally LHBS Rusty Penny down @Hairy Hairy's way were very positive about them as well... is a champion bit of gear and I drive it w cordless...  and they seem to be reviewed on Youtube around the world e.g. recent review below.  Pls note I am not a rep or get any kickbacks for promoting this product  It's just nice it is an Aussie product and it seems to be pretty good qual and if it is good enough for Otto it's good enough for me ; )

Take care tho as @ozdevil Ozzy points out - you need high torque to drive it and low speed is best... think that Otto might use an impact driver which covers torque easily... I had a bit of strife to begin with using my little drill but now got it worked out...  and wheat is a bit harder so is best to blend with Barley when pouring in - or have the mill running when you begin pouring in... not standing start.  Obviously you can connect to wormdrive electric motor etc.... HTH. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Graubart

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah I've got the one graubart mentioned above. Bought it in 2012 when I started doing AG when they were still made with the old knurled rollers. After a while it started having trouble pulling the grains through and it'd take about an hour just to mill a few kg. 

There was a discussion about this issue on another forum and Frank sent out a replacement fluted roller to everyone who had the issue (I think) free of charge, so I replaced one with that to have one knurled and one fluted, and it was like new. Only takes a few minutes now. They come with two fluted rollers now. 

It also survived falling off a 3 metre balcony a few years ago, so they're built well

As for the drill I just use a drill driver set on low speed and highest torque. Works well. 

[stquinto]

@Journeyman @Shamus O'Sean @ozdevil @Graubart @Otto Von Blotto

Thanks for all your advice fellas.

Looks like I'll go for the Grain Gorilla. Hopefully I can put my cordless drill/screwdriver on it: the torque should be OK and it has a low power setting.

10 hours ago, Journeyman said:

EDIT: Where are you getting the Grain Gorilla - looking for reviews etc. everything seems to be EU based?

@Journeyman this is what I can get where I am in Europe. Better price where I am than in neighbouring countries (for once). It comes out at about 185 AUD.

@Graubart that does look like a brilliant bit of kit. I can pnly get it shipped from Oz and it ends up (with the hopper) around 620 AUD. Hmm... maybe not for right now...

The rollers look like this :

Watching the video above they look to be fluted. Hopefully these won't make too much flour...

After I've made a few of 1/2 batches to see what it changes to my brew day etc.,  I might look at an electric brew kettle. Then I can go for a proper size batch. There's a 27 litre one for a decent price.

[kmar92]

I am also looking at grain mills and I have heard nothing but great reviews for the Mill Master, however it is like 2X the price of competing models.