Adding hop pellets to the fermenter.

[Tricky Micky]

I've just purchased 100grams of pride of Ringwood hop pellets. For my next brew I have in the cupboard: 

the Coopers Lager Tin 1.7kg

BE3 1kg

Both the Saflager 34/70 and US-05 yeast

LDME 1kg

And about 1kg of Dextrose.

Could I use the US -05 yeast with the Lager Tin? 

Thinking aloud would it be okay to go with this as a recipe:

Coopers Lager Tin 1.7kg 

BE3

US-05 yeast 11grams

500 grams LDME

and Hops?                                 

If the hops are okay to use could someone run through the process of adding the hop pellets to the primary fermenter for me. I've looked at videos online but there seems to be so many ways to add the hops to the brew I'm unclear which way is easiest for a newbie. TIA as always.

 

 

 

 

[Norris!]

Do you have chux clothes? If so you can wrap the hops loosely in them. Keep it loose to allow them to expand and get wet all the way through. If not you can just toss them in and maybe too the fermenter up near the tap to keep the hops away from the tap or cold crash if you can to drop them out. 

US05 would work fine and with POR it would make it very Aussie draught like.

I have never used POR, I don't know about dry hopping with it. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

Hi @Mickep, Save your Saflager 34/70 until you get temperature control for fermenting or until next winter.  Chuck the sachet in the fridge until you intend to use it.

Pride of Ringwood (POR) is meant to be more of a bittering hop according to http://www.hopslist.com/hops/  .  Like Norris, I have not used it before. 

Maybe you could try something like the Heritage Lager, except replace the 12g of Hallertau and the 12 g of Tettnanger with 25g of POR and use the BE3 and LDM.  Might be quite nice.

[Tricky Micky]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hi @Mickep, Save your Saflager 34/70 until you get temperature control for fermenting or until next winter.  Chuck the sachet in the fridge until you intend to use it.

Pride of Ringwood (POR) is meant to be more of a bittering hop according to http://www.hopslist.com/hops/  .  Like Norris, I have not used it before. 

Maybe you could try something like the Heritage Lager, except replace the 12g of Hallertau and the 12 g of Tettnanger with 25g of POR and use the BE3 and LDM.  Might be quite nice.

Thanks mate, perfect. If I'm adding hops to the primary and I'm using pellets when do I add that? Can I add the pellets straight to the fermenter? As always thanks for sharing the info.

[Tricky Micky]

11 hours ago, Norris! said:

Do you have chux clothes? If so you can wrap the hops loosely in them. Keep it loose to allow them to expand and get wet all the way through. If not you can just toss them in and maybe too the fermenter up near the tap to keep the hops away from the tap or cold crash if you can to drop them out. 

US05 would work fine and with POR it would make it very Aussie draught like.

I have never used POR, I don't know about dry hopping with it. 

Thanks Norris. Am I reading your last correctly? That I can toss the pellets in the fermenter. When would I do that, at what stage of fermentation? Thanks for helping out.

[Shamus O'Sean]

7 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Thanks mate, perfect. If I'm adding hops to the primary and I'm using pellets when do I add that? Can I add the pellets straight to the fermenter? As always thanks for sharing the info.

For me, I add the hops (in a Chux cloth) any time after the SG is below 1.020.  So toward the end of fermentation.  Sometimes I add them once fermentation is complete.

I use a Chux so I can fish it out after 3 days.  I have sometimes got grassy flavours from leaving the hops in for 5-7 days before bottling.

[Tricky Micky]

9 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

For me, I add the hops (in a Chux cloth) any time after the SG is below 1.020.  So toward the end of fermentation.  Sometimes I add them once fermentation is complete.

I use a Chux so I can fish it out after 3 days.  I have sometimes got grassy flavours from leaving the hops in for 5-7 days before bottling.

Thanks Shamus. Taking this in steps What is done to the pellets before wrapping them in the chux cloth and dropping into the fermenter? 

This is from the heritage Lager recipe about adding the hops.

1. MIX

• Infuse the Hallertau and Tettnanger Hop Pellets in 500ml of just boiled water for about 10mins.
• Strain into a Fermenting Vessel (FV) and mix in Lager and Light Malt + 1 litre of water.
• I'm sorry I'm taking so long to grasp what needs to be done. The Vids online are not that clear about this, at least not the ones I've been watching.
•  

[Shamus O'Sean]

My mistake @Mickep, I was describing dry hopping - adding hops to your fermenter way after fermentation has started - to add aroma to the beer.

There are many ways you can add hops to a brew.

The Heritage Lager method is called steeping.  It will give some flavour and some bitterness (but not much).  I would still use a Chux cloth.  Sanitise a 1 litre pyrex jug.  Wrap the hops in the Chux.  Pop the Chux baggy in the jug and pour over your boiling water.  Leave for 10 minutes (or even a bit longer).  Fish out the Chux baggy.  If it is not too hot give it a squeeze to extract a bit more hoppy goodness.  The liquid left in the jug is already strained and ready to be added to the fermenter.

Some of these steps overlap, but my general order is:

1. Light Dry Malt into fermenter with boiling water and swirl to mix
2. Warm up can in sink, open and pour into fermenter
3. 3/4 fill the can with boiling water to dissolve extract on sides of can.  Add this to fermenter (USE A TEATOWEL TO PICK UP THE HOT CAN OR YOU WILL FUSE YOUR FINGERS TO THE CAN)
4. Do the hop steep and add this to the fermenter
5. Top up with water
6. Add yeast

Cheers

 

[Tricky Micky]

10 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

My mistake @Mickep, I was describing dry hopping - adding hops to your fermenter way after fermentation has started - to add aroma to the beer.

There are many ways you can add hops to a brew.

The Heritage Lager method is called steeping.  It will give some flavour and some bitterness (but not much).  I would still use a Chux cloth.  Sanitise a 1 litre pyrex jug.  Wrap the hops in the Chux.  Pop the Chux baggy in the jug and pour over your boiling water.  Leave for 10 minutes (or even a bit longer).  Fish out the Chux baggy.  If it is not too hot give it a squeeze to extract a bit more hoppy goodness.  The liquid left in the jug is already strained and ready to be added to the fermenter.

Some of these steps overlap, but my general order is:

1. Light Dry Malt into fermenter with boiling water and swirl to mix
2. Warm up can in sink, open and pour into fermenter
3. 3/4 fill the can with boiling water to dissolve extract on sides of can.  Add this to fermenter (USE A TEATOWEL TO PICK UP THE HOT CAN OR YOU WILL FUSE YOUR FINGERS TO THE CAN)
4. Do the hop steep and add this to the fermenter
5. Top up with water
6. Add yeast

Cheers

 

You're a star Shamus. One thing I'm quickly learning here on the forum is that you guys are so willing to share info with the newbies. Hats off to you mate!

[Tricky Micky]

33 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

My mistake @Mickep, I was describing dry hopping - adding hops to your fermenter way after fermentation has started - to add aroma to the beer.

There are many ways you can add hops to a brew.

The Heritage Lager method is called steeping.  It will give some flavour and some bitterness (but not much).  I would still use a Chux cloth.  Sanitise a 1 litre pyrex jug.  Wrap the hops in the Chux.  Pop the Chux baggy in the jug and pour over your boiling water.  Leave for 10 minutes (or even a bit longer).  Fish out the Chux baggy.  If it is not too hot give it a squeeze to extract a bit more hoppy goodness.  The liquid left in the jug is already strained and ready to be added to the fermenter.

Some of these steps overlap, but my general order is:

1. Light Dry Malt into fermenter with boiling water and swirl to mix
2. Warm up can in sink, open and pour into fermenter
3. 3/4 fill the can with boiling water to dissolve extract on sides of can.  Add this to fermenter (USE A TEATOWEL TO PICK UP THE HOT CAN OR YOU WILL FUSE YOUR FINGERS TO THE CAN)
4. Do the hop steep and add this to the fermenter
5. Top up with water
6. Add yeast

Cheers

 

Hey Shamus, off topic but would this calculation be correct with regards to Bulk priming in the primary FV? Got the calculator online. Lab Cat suggested it was possible to Bulk Prime in the primary fermenter. Stirring after adding the sugar. Here's the numbers the calculator gave me for 20 litres.

Using an online calculator.

@20 litres 

2.6 Volumes of CO2

Temp @ 16degrees 

= 130grams of Table sugar.

After having stirred the contents will the sediment in the vessel settle quickly so I might be able to bottle not long after adding the sugar? And do you agree with the priming calculations?

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, Mickep said:

Using an online calculator.

@20 litres 

2.6 Volumes of CO2

Temp @ 16degrees 

= 130grams of Table sugar.

After having stirred the contents will the sediment in the vessel settle quickly so I might be able to bottle not long after adding the sugar? And do you agree with the priming calculations?

Stirring vigorously enough to lift the trub from the bottom is not the best idea - it will take maybe a couple of days to settle back out and probably longer because the yeast will go active to consume the sugar you just added. So very cloudy, very yeasty beer.

130g sounds like a lot for bulk prime. I've done it to a keg and use half the recommended amount - I used about 85g and got perfect carb levels.

Can you chill the beer in the FV? You want it cold to increase the flocculation (removal of particles from the liquid to the bottom of the FV)

Ideally to bulk prime you would use a 2nd FV and run the beer from your original FV into the one with the sugar liquid in it. You use a tube long enough to coil a bit on the bottom of the 2nd FV and that swirls the liquid so the sugar syrup mixes evenly. Then you bottle from the 2nd FV and all the trub is left behind in the 1st one, so nice clear beer.

[Lab Cat]

27 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Stirring vigorously enough to lift the trub from the bottom is not the best idea - it will take maybe a couple of days to settle back out and probably longer because the yeast will go active to consume the sugar you just added. So very cloudy, very yeasty beer.

I BP in the main FV with no issues. 2nd FV is too much stuffing around IMO. Yes, you need to stir in the sugar carefully and not disturb the yeast. Cold crashing of course makes it much easier.

I would have thought 130g a bit low myself. I use 180 in 23l and don't find it over carbed at all. That's the same rate as my sugar scoop dosed individual bottles. I'm not a fan of the vol/Co2 method as it's attempting to replicate carb levels of specific styles. Seems to fussy to me. The only beer I want less cabed than usual is an English Bitter or Brown. Everything else gets 180.

[Tricky Micky]

38 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Stirring vigorously enough to lift the trub from the bottom is not the best idea - it will take maybe a couple of days to settle back out and probably longer because the yeast will go active to consume the sugar you just added. So very cloudy, very yeasty beer.

130g sounds like a lot for bulk prime. I've done it to a keg and use half the recommended amount - I used about 85g and got perfect carb levels.

Can you chill the beer in the FV? You want it cold to increase the flocculation (removal of particles from the liquid to the bottom of the FV)

Ideally to bulk prime you would use a 2nd FV and run the beer from your original FV into the one with the sugar liquid in it. You use a tube long enough to coil a bit on the bottom of the 2nd FV and that swirls the liquid so the sugar syrup mixes evenly. Then you bottle from the 2nd FV and all the trub is left behind in the 1st one, so nice clear beer.

Thanks Journeyman

[Tricky Micky]

6 minutes ago, Lab Cat said:

I BP in the main FV with no issues. 2nd FV is too much stuffing around IMO. Yes, you need to stir in the sugar carefully and not disturb the yeast. Cold crashing of course makes it much easier.

I would have thought 130g a bit low myself. I use 180 in 23l and don't find it over carbed at all. That's the same rate as my sugar scoop dosed individual bottles. I'm not a fan of the vol/Co2 method as it's attempting to replicate carb levels of specific styles. Seems to fussy to me. The only beer I want less cabed than usual is an English Bitter or Brown. Everything else gets 180.

Cheers Lab Cat, I'll definitely take your advice about Carb measurements on board. 

[Journeyman]

54 minutes ago, Lab Cat said:

I would have thought 130g a bit low myself. I use 180 in 23l and don't find it over carbed at all...

...The only beer I want less cabed than usual is an English Bitter or Brown. Everything else gets 180.

I was cautioned against normal sugar levels in BP - but that might have been when doing it to keg rather than bottles.

I did 160g (from memory) for a stout and now I have to 'hiss' the bottles or get fountains.

But I only BP'd a few times before I got the kegs.

So listen to Lab Cat - he's the one with experience here.

[Tricky Micky]

2 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

I BP in the main FV with no issues. 2nd FV is too much stuffing around IMO. Yes, you need to stir in the sugar carefully and not disturb the yeast. Cold crashing of course makes it much easier.

I would have thought 130g a bit low myself. I use 180 in 23l and don't find it over carbed at all. That's the same rate as my sugar scoop dosed individual bottles. I'm not a fan of the vol/Co2 method as it's attempting to replicate carb levels of specific styles. Seems to fussy to me. The only beer I want less cabed than usual is an English Bitter or Brown. Everything else gets 180.

Lab Cat,

seems to be consensus for 8grams of table sugar to 1 litre of Beer online. So thanks for the heads up. When You've gently stirred the sugar in the fermenter avoiding kicking up the sediment on the bottom how long before you start to bottle? Do you dissolve the sugar before adding to the fermenter or does that change the science of the whole thing?

[Shamus O'Sean]

I would go with Lab Cat's advice on this.  I only ever bulk primed once.  It was to a second fermenter.  I just calc'd on the usual 8g/L, so 180g for a 23L batch.  I did not worry about the litre or so of trub I was going to leave behind.  I mixed the sugar with a small amount of boiled water to make a syrup.

@Lab Cat, do you mix your sugar with some boiled water and then add it to your primary FV and then stir?  @Mickep, the way you were describing it, I thought you might be planning to tip your sugar in the fermenter and then try to stir to dissolve it.  Let's see what LC has to say about it.

[Lab Cat]

40 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

do you mix your sugar with some boiled water and then add it to your primary FV and then stir? 

@Shamus O'Sean  @Mickep Yes. But water off the boil for a few minutes, then stir through the 180g sugar til clear. This is the standard BP method, whether you use the main FV, or bottle to a second. The sugar needs to be dissolved first, it probably will not mix evenly otherwise.

Because I've crashed my beer for a 4-5 days, I can be a little firmer mixing it through. Then I leave it to settle while I sanitise my bottles. By the time that's done, I bottle. Just bottled by 3rd batch of Abbey Blonde tonight and the yeast or sediment did not move when adding the sugar syrup. Beer was very clear bottling.

180g is my personal pref and based off the sugar scoop measures, calculated up to 23l. Some prefer less. Whatever you prefer, it's a good way to prime because you decide you much fizz you want. It also makes life easier if you have 3 bottles sizes like I do.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Lab Cat

[Tricky Micky]

11 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

@Shamus O'Sean  @Mickep Yes. But water off the boil for a few minutes, then stir through the 180g sugar til clear. This is the standard BP method, whether you use the main FV, or bottle to a second. The sugar needs to be dissolved first, it probably will not mix evenly otherwise.

Because I've crashed my beer for a 4-5 days, I can be a little firmer mixing it through. Then I leave it to settle while I sanitise my bottles. By the time that's done, I bottle. Just bottled by 3rd batch of Abbey Blonde tonight and the yeast or sediment did not move when adding the sugar syrup. Beer was very clear bottling.

180g is my personal pref and based off the sugar scoop measures, calculated up to 23l. Some prefer less. Whatever you prefer, it's a good way to prime because you decide you much fizz you want. It also makes life easier if you have 3 bottles sizes like I do.

Thanks for all the info LC

[Tricky Micky]

On 9/10/2020 at 8:53 AM, Shamus O'Sean said:

My mistake @Mickep, I was describing dry hopping - adding hops to your fermenter way after fermentation has started - to add aroma to the beer.

There are many ways you can add hops to a brew.

The Heritage Lager method is called steeping.  It will give some flavour and some bitterness (but not much).  I would still use a Chux cloth.  Sanitise a 1 litre pyrex jug.  Wrap the hops in the Chux.  Pop the Chux baggy in the jug and pour over your boiling water.  Leave for 10 minutes (or even a bit longer).  Fish out the Chux baggy.  If it is not too hot give it a squeeze to extract a bit more hoppy goodness.  The liquid left in the jug is already strained and ready to be added to the fermenter.

Some of these steps overlap, but my general order is:

1. Light Dry Malt into fermenter with boiling water and swirl to mix
2. Warm up can in sink, open and pour into fermenter
3. 3/4 fill the can with boiling water to dissolve extract on sides of can.  Add this to fermenter (USE A TEATOWEL TO PICK UP THE HOT CAN OR YOU WILL FUSE YOUR FINGERS TO THE CAN)
4. Do the hop steep and add this to the fermenter
5. Top up with water
6. Add yeast

Cheers

 

 

 

Shamus, if I'm going to add hops to the next brew can I choose to add it directly to the fermenter instead of steeping it first? Does the Hop method depend on what style of beer you're Brewing? Flavour, aromas etc. Can't seem to get Heritage Lager from anywhere. Out of stock. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Mickep

[Tricky Micky]

Okay, just bulk primed and added my sugar to the brew and stuffed up and disturbed the trub. It's got awful cloudy.

How long can I wait for it to settle before I'd need to start bottling because I've added the sugar.  TIA

[Tricky Micky]

When I've finished the 60 minute boil and bringing the pot and its contents temperature down in a cold water bath can I add ice to the liquid to help speed that process up? 

[Journeyman]

36 minutes ago, Mickep said:

When I've finished the 60 minute boil and bringing the pot and its contents temperature down in a cold water bath can I add ice to the liquid to help speed that process up? 

You can do that... BUT... is the ice actually boiled then cooled water? While yeast doesn't like being frozen, many bac teria have little problem and wake up as soon as they warm up. 

What you could do is freeze water in plastic bottles, spray them with sanitiser then put those in the wort.

But really, sitting it in the sink gets it down to reasonable temp pretty quick. I have pure water in 3L bottles in the fridge with my kegs - pour 1 of them into the FV then add the cooled wort, then add 1 or 2 more and I'm easily at pitching temp.

And while it is in the sink I add the dry and/or heated extracts and stir them in.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Journeyman

[Tricky Micky]

13 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

You can do that... BUT... is the ice actually boiled then cooled water? While yeast doesn't like being frozen, many bac teria have little problem and wake up as soon as they warm up. 

What you could do is freeze water in plastic bottles, spray them with sanitiser then put those in the wort.

But really, sitting it in the sink gets it down to reasonable temp pretty quick. I have pure water in 3L bottles in the fridge with my kegs - pour 1 of them into the FV then add the cooled wort, then add 1 or 2 more and I'm easily at pitching temp.

And while it is in the sink I add the dry and/or heated extracts and stir them in.

Cheers Journeyman.

[Tricky Micky]

What would be a good substitute for POR hops, can't seem to get any at the minute. Is Super Pride similar?