Is there a requirement to completely mix extract and water when pitching?

[Frankie4Fingers]

So I have just made my first 23L ROTM (Lamington Stout) and followed the recipe as per the instructions provided.  Recipe said to add the 2L of boiled then cooled water with the steeped grains into the fermenter first (which for me is a v1 fermentasaurus conical) and then add the 2 cans of extract, enhancer and then top up to 22L.

When I then opened the butterfly valve at the bottom for the collection bottle, the extract very slowly fell in which would be expected given the consistency of it.  It got me wondering whether there is a need to stir everything through post adding the water (which in itself is a bit of a challenge with the 'saurus because of the design of the top of it.)

So I have 2 q's for the experts:

1. Is there a need to stir everything to mix once pitched or does the water and extract mix over time?
2. Or will the yeast devour everything regardless during the ferment?

New to extract brewing so not sure of the best process to ensure the yeast get busy and great beer gets produced.

 

[Journeyman]

No 'requirement' but your OG will be rather meaningless. It's best to have it thoroughly mixed for that. I haven't got the equipment you have but I'd worry about the extract going into the collection bottle - my understanding is that's for trub and other byproducts, not the active ingredients. However, if the valve stays open I'd imagine the eyast will work on what is in there.

If it does you should see the extract slowly change over to being trub.

In future maybe mix it all properly first? e.g. I add my ingredients into the boil pot at the end of the boil to make sure they mix - the hot wort helps the cans mix in properly. Then I have cold water in the FV (couple of litres from the fridge, and after some cooling in the sink for the pot, I tip it all in then add cold to bring it down to pitch temp.

[Frankie4Fingers]

15 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

No 'requirement' but your OG will be rather meaningless. It's best to have it thoroughly mixed for that. I haven't got the equipment you have but I'd worry about the extract going into the collection bottle - my understanding is that's for trub and other byproducts, not the active ingredients. However, if the valve stays open I'd imagine the eyast will work on what is in there.

If it does you should see the extract slowly change over to being trub.

In future maybe mix it all properly first? e.g. I add my ingredients into the boil pot at the end of the boil to make sure they mix - the hot wort helps the cans mix in properly. Then I have cold water in the FV (couple of litres from the fridge, and after some cooling in the sink for the pot, I tip it all in then add cold to bring it down to pitch temp.

Thanks for the reply.  I always keep the butterfly valve open so I will suck it and see where this goes.  Hopefully the yeast get busy on it all and the brew doesn't end up wasted.

The OG reading is indeed meaningless.  I have a Tilt hydrometer and that is reading 1.021 which I know is massively off which is no biggy.  I will just leave the brew a bit longer this time to ensure fermentation is well and truly done.  Can't guarantee the ABV but as long as its drinkable then I'm ok with that.

Thanks for the detail re the process you follow.  I never thought about doing it that way but it makes perfect sense so I will look at that next time.

[Journeyman]

Could you use a sanitised long rod that will fit through the valve and stir up the extract a bit? Get the yeast wort down in there?

Others who have used that vessel can probably help more.

[Frankie4Fingers]

2 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Could you use a sanitised long rod that will fit through the valve and stir up the extract a bit? Get the yeast wort down in there?

Others who have used that vessel can probably help more.

Probably a bit difficult........however if I do need to do something that the best option is to probably close the valve, remove the bottle, replace with the spare one that is purged with CO2 and then pitch the extract back in through the top.  Leave the butterfly valve closed for a couple of days to let fermentation start.

Maybe when I then add the coconut once the krausen subsides I then open the butterfly valve again.

[Journeyman]

1 minute ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

Probably a bit difficult........however if I do need to do something that the best option is to probably close the valve, remove the bottle, replace with the spare one that is purged with CO2 and then pitch the extract back in through the top.  Leave the butterfly valve closed for a couple of days to let fermentation start.

Maybe when I then add the coconut once the krausen subsides I then open the butterfly valve again.

Least interference is best - with the valve open I reckon the yeast will find and work in the extract in the bottle. 

[Frankie4Fingers]

1 minute ago, Journeyman said:

Least interference is best - with the valve open I reckon the yeast will find and work in the extract in the bottle. 

Will see how it goes.  If it doesn't go as planned then at least I have learnt something new regards the best way to ensure its all mixed for the next one.

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

The OG reading is indeed meaningless

FYI I put (most) of the ingredients into the IanH spreadsheet and got an OG of 1.063

At least you can compare to your FG to get your ABV

Lamington Stout.xls

[Frankie4Fingers]

11 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

FYI I put (most) of the ingredients into the IanH spreadsheet and got an OG of 1.063

At least you can compare to your FG to get your ABV

Lamington Stout.xls 1.1 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks Shamus.

[iBooz2]

@Frankie4Fingers 

I have the fermzilla and the yeast had no problem getting down and converting all the unmixed extract in the collection bottle but it did take a couple of days longer.  That being said, the saurus has a much smaller butterfly valve assembly/throat and is known to get blocked.  So it may just be possible that the trub layer may just get too thick, block off the throat and not to allow the lower stuff to be converted.  Second time I noticed this happened to me I just inverted the FV a couple of times.  I usually do this trick several times when the FV is half full of sodium perc during the cleaning phase so have the technique down pat.

If it’s very early in the ferment stage and you can do the following without risk to yourself or your gear then do as below.  Your tilt hydrometer probe might end up a bit of a shipwreck but!

De-pressurize the FV.

Disconnect the spunding valve from the gas port.

Detach temp probes, tilt probe wires etc.

Lift it up and invert it a couple of times.

Once right way up, de-pressurise again, then remove the gas port and pour the second “missing” sachet of yeast down through that and re-fit the gas port because at the OG pointed out by Shamus it’s going to need some extra helpers.

Give the FV a gentle circular wobble around to distribute the new yeast.

Re-connect all your stuff.

Cheers - AL

Edited July 19, 2020 by iBooz2

[Frankie4Fingers]

@iBooz2

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I am only on day 2 since pitching on Friday arvo and fermentation only really started overnight.  I have taken your advice and inverted which does look to have freed up what was in the bottle.  I have also added the second sachet of 05 and re-distributed within the wort so all being well things are back on track.

I know home brew can be pretty forgiving as long as sanitation and the like are well maintained so hopefully despite all the shenanigans, the brew comes good.

At the end of the day its all a learning curve.  Thanks to communities like these for those that have probably already gone through it all before.

Thanks all who have replied.