OLD kit and sugars - a test of 'Best Before'

[Amarillo Armadillo]

I moved to the UK from Sydney in 2005 and packed my Coopers screw-lid brewing kit. I have recently found it again in the cellar and done a few brews in the last few months (after cleaning and sanitising everything thoroughly) and they have turned out great!

AND... I also found some ingredients... 

I have:

• 1 can International Coopers APA: Best Before 12/Aug/06
• 1kg of BE2: Best Before 16/Sep/06 (this has hardened)
• 1kg of CSR Brewing Sugar 75% Cane Sugar and 25% Maltodextrin: PKD (packed date?) 13/Jan/04.

I called my LHBS (well, not so much 'L' as online) and the Beer Yoda told me that the kit would be fine and that my choice of Safale US-05 yeast to replace the (probably very dead) kit yeast was good.

I've done some reading and it seems the BE2 should be OK if dissolved in a few litres of boiling water and the CSR sugar should also be OK. Both of these are essentially just sugar so should be fine - there's nothing to die, right?

Anyway - I figured I'd document my efforts in case anyone else is daft enough to want to try it with an old kit they've found!

I'm just waiting for the temperatire to drop here a bit (mini heat wave in the UK right now) and then I'll crack on.

Before I get going, I thought some folk might be kind enough to chip in with some advice/warnings? Am I right about the sugars? Should I add any more sugars? How much of these sugars should I add?

I have some new 'in date' hops (Amarillo, Cascade and Citra) and plenty of new and 'in date' Coopers Light Dry Malt Extract I could add (but the 'in date' thing sort of defeats the purpose of this experiement, so I'd prefer not to.)

Cheers!

AA

[Shamus O'Sean]

I would not bother.  I have done cans out of date by four years and they were fine, but fourteen years is pushing it.

If you do it, do not expect miracles or rather expect average beer.

[Lab Cat]

Get a new can. Why waste time making potentially awful beer, when you can make a good one, for less than a tenner more?

[Beerlust]

I thought a couple of recent posts about using 4yrs past BB was nuts. This takes the cake!

It's a food item from 14 years ago. Are you serious??

[Otto Von Blotto]

The brewing sugar and enhancer are probably ok but the kits I wouldn't bother with at all. Pretty crappy advice from the brew shop that a kit 14 years past its BB date would be fine. It's a lot of time to wait for a shit outcome.

You could use the kit yeast as nutrient though, just add it to a hop boil.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Otto Von Blotto

[Panther Branch Brewing]

You've already got it, might as well try it. It's not costing you anything but time. Sharing your experience would be beneficial to the world!

Before you go all the way you might at least take a taste of what's in the can and see what you think.

[Amarillo Armadillo]

11 minutes ago, Panther Branch Brewing said:

You've already got it, might as well try it. It's not costing you anything but time. Sharing your experience would be beneficial to the world!

Before you go all the way you might at least take a taste of what's in the can and see what you think.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my philosophy behind it!

Thanks PBB.

[Beerlust]

7 hours ago, Panther Branch Brewing said:

...Before you go all the way you might at least take a taste of what's in the can and see what you think.

Poisons Information Hotline 131 126.

[The Captain!!]

33 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Poisons Information Hotline 131 126.

Maybe not helpful in the UK though Lusty ha ha ha. 
But hey @Amarillo Armadillo if you do have to go to the hospital for whatever reason after drinking this beverage at this difficult time..... good luck to ya. 
Id wait until the hospitals are free from an earth killing disease before doing that. 
Hey, what’s another 12 months......

[Instigator]

https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/labelling/dates/Pages/default.aspx

If the can isn't rusty, damaged or swollen, it's probably safe to consume. The quality will probably be awful, or at least not particularly good.

While I'm not as dead-set against doing it as BeerLust, I agree that fresh ingredients are best when it's something I want to consume.

[Lab Cat]

Reminds me of when Barry Marshall drank Helicobacter to prove that ulcers were caused by bacteria, and not stress. The medical profession had laughed at him right up til he got the Nobel prize.

However, in this case, science and humanity is not advanced one iota.

[Thirsty Jim]

Sugar acts as a preservative in a controlled water tight environment.  Like a can. Think jam. A tin of extract is essentially a can of sugar.  Complex sugars but sugar nonetheless. It is not going to kill you. It will not make you sick.  It is not a poison. That is just nonsense.  

The extract will darken over time so don't expect your pale ale to be  all that pale.  And after 14 years the extract will have congealed in the can so invert the can and give it a good hot water soak to soften it up before you open it.  Whether the wort becomes more bitter over time I honestly don't know.   In my experience with cans past their best date is that while the wort definitely darkens  the change in flavor is only marginal - but then I have only tried cans that are a couple of years past their best date.  14 years is uncharted waters.  

Have a crack.  Lets us know how you go.  You have nothing to lose except a 14 year old can of extract.

[Lab Cat]

40 minutes ago, Thirsty Jim said:

It is not a poison. That is just nonsense.  

Never implied that. It was a science joke. Sheesh.

[Thirsty Jim]

It wasn't directed at you Lab Cat.   

[Beerlust]

 

That was after 7 years aged, maybe it gets it's second wind at 14?

At least he wasn't poisoned. 

Lusty.

[Smashed Crabs]

Sounds like something you should run through a column still. Might make beer, but damn theres some things even i wont drink. Am looking forward to seeing the results and hope you take pictures of this experiment. You dont come across a brew like this very often nor someone willing to try make it.

Good luck!

[Otto Von Blotto]

It doesn't get more bitter with time, it gets less bitter. 

I wouldn't bother in my situation because I need my fermenters to make beer I know will actually be good. If I had a spare one lying around I might just to see how bad it turned out, but even then it'd be a small batch. I just don't see any point in wasting a month making 20 odd litres of beer that will most likely turn out crap. 

[Amarillo Armadillo]

OK, so here’s what happened.

• Can was bulging a bit at base and fizzed a bit when I pierced it. Not a good sign, probably 
• BE2 was like honeycomb but not a problem.
• added kit yeast as nutrient to the brew
• Pale Ale kit looked like tar. Also probably not good.
• OG 1.037
• tasted it and was like treacle toffee. Interesting, but not quite to my taste.
• Saf is-05 added at 23C
• 4 days in and no airlock activity or krausean so did hydro test: SG 1.026. Taste was Christmassy treacly
• 8 days in, SG was 1.019 and still no krausean. Still tasted as above and I made the call: final photo is me putting it down my bath plug.

Conclusion: I think we can all agree that I have advanced humankind’s understanding of zymology.

I humbly await my Nobel prize.

AA

[Journeyman]

7 hours ago, Amarillo Armadillo said:

Can was bulging a bit at base and fizzed a bit when I pierced it. Not a good sign, probably

While I can only admire your dedication to the finer points of chemistry, that can moves it into the realm of Industrial Chemistry - I don't mind trying out old cans but when they are bulging, that's a sign it's well past time to bury the sucker. I certainly wouldn't have been tasting anything out of that.

Not sure about a Nobel - maybe an honourable mention for an attempt at a Darwin Award?

Maybe get a plumber to check your pipes? That muck could have done anything to them...