James Lao Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Hi all, I have been using the Sodium Percarbonate from keg king at 1 Full cap for cleaning the FV (soaked overnight - 24 hours sometimes). Think this is only about 20g for about 30 litres, well below the recommended level. I noticed a residue ring / tide mark at the top of the FV from the sod perc, that I can’t get off with warm water soak and soft cloth etc. Its like the sod perc solution has eaten into the plastic of the FV? I noticed some residue on my bottles from using Napisan before that’s why I switched to 100% sod perc. Anybody else using sodium percarbonate notice any residue marks in the FV / bottles From using it? Even using a soft cloth to wipe off has left rub / scratch marks on the FV, so I have stopped using this FV as I don’t want to use it if I have inadvertently scratched it trying to get the residue off.. Wondering if it is a batch of sod perc or my FV getting old and the plastic is breaking down?? Or is this normal, and I am over thinking things (again)..? Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I can't say that I have ever noticed anything more than a slimy residue that washes off with hot water when I have used Sodium Perc. Has it actually damaged or eaten into the plastic, or is the mark sitting on the plastic? Mitch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I'll be back - I've had some perc soaking an FV overnight so will go check it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Not had anything like that in my fermenters, it doesn't eat into plastic or any other equipment anyway so it would be a residue. Can you get some pictures of it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 It’s like a hard, powdery caked on mark and when I wash it with hot water and a cloth it seems to scratch the plastic of the FV. Only using a microfiber type cloth to clean as well. Spoke to one of the fellas at Keg land and he said maybe I am using too much, but one of the caps that comes with kilo tub is about 20gm. That capful in about 30 litres shouldn’t be too much though. Will try to get some pics later when back home. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Mine is pristine - even got a torch to shine along sides to see if I could see scratches. My perc says 30g in 10L water so I doubt your capful is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I hand-clean my fermenters (and other equipment) with a chux cloth, using 15g of sodium perc and 1.5L of hot water (so 10g/L), then I rinse straight away with hot water. Bottles, on the other hand, get a soak, but only about 1g/L for them and then a cold rinse. I've never noticed any residue on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 Hard to tell from the photo but does seem more noticeable in reality - to me anyway. This fermenter is 5 years old and has quite a few mini scratches and marks etc. Just noticed the marks left from soaking in sodium percarbonate recently though. Probably over reacting, but this FV mainly just gets used for cleaning bottles now. The other FV doesn’t have as many scratches or marks on it.... Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I bought two replacement Coopers fermenters recently after three years of brewing with the previous two. I had scratched the inside bottom of the older two with the mixing spoon. Plus I had started to get some not quite right brews. I thought maybe organisms in the scratches might have been beating my sensitisation regime. No issues since. I have never had the issue you describe though @James Lao, sorry brother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Jim Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I use an oxy bleach too but I have never had that problem. It looks bad though, as if something abrasive has not dissolved . @James Lao do you mix your sodium perc in warm water before adding to the fermenter ? I think you are supposed to (at least I always do and have never had that problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Yes Thirsty Jim I always dissolve it first, so it is a mystery why this is happening to me now!! Just read on Kegland website that sodium percarbonate alone will not remove hop oils , grime build up over time etc. Says that using sod perc only over time can lead to build up of grime and scale.. Goes on to day that Stellar Clean (PBW) is a superior cleaner than sod perc by itself..? Might give this a go. Just cleaned my newer FV after kegging tonight. Did KR’s method mentioned above of a couple of litres of hot water with about 15g of SP, with a Chux cloth - clean as a whistle, not game to soak overnight now, but clean is clean right?! Cheeky glass of IPA out of the fermenter was deelish too!! Happy days!! Cheers James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 14 hours ago, James Lao said: Yes Thirsty Jim I always dissolve it first, so it is a mystery why this is happening to me now!! Just read on Kegland website that sodium percarbonate alone will not remove hop oils , grime build up over time etc. Says that using sod perc only over time can lead to build up of grime and scale.. Goes on to day that Stellar Clean (PBW) is a superior cleaner than sod perc by itself..? Might give this a go. Just cleaned my newer FV after kegging tonight. Did KR’s method mentioned above of a couple of litres of hot water with about 15g of SP, with a Chux cloth - clean as a whistle, not game to soak overnight now, but clean is clean right?! Cheeky glass of IPA out of the fermenter was deelish too!! Happy days!! Cheers James I have always just used hot water and sodium perc in my Coopers FV after every batch (soak overnight). Never had an issue. I have also seen on their site that apparently perc won't remove hop oils, but it must do to some extent as my FV is always clean as when I am done with the soak. I also have a container of Kegland's PBW, but have so far not used it. I might start using it once every 5 cleans or something as a deep clean to remove any oils that normal perc won't remove. It's a lot more expensive then perc so would be a costly clean if you used it every time. Have you tried a soft cloth with some warm water to see if the marks you have will come off with a little elbow grease? As long as it's a soft cloth you shouldn't have issues with scratching the plastic. I highly doubt perc is the cause of those marks. Mitch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Jim Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) If you want to shift hop oils or any sort of scale or even the residue sodium percarbonate leaves I would recommend a rinse in a mild acid and water - double vinegar is ideal. It makes my FV sparkle and I use it on all my glassware as well. PS : I just bought a new kitchen kettle and I note that even they are recommending the use of vinegar as an 'environmentally friendly' descaler rather than commercial preparations. Edited June 17, 2020 by Thirsty Jim PS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Hi Mitch, Yes have tried hot water, soft cloth and elbow grease to no avail! I think I will be giving the 24 hour soak a miss from now on just wash it off with Hot water and SP solution and rinse off, straight after kegging / bottling. It only took an extra few minutes and the missus was happy that the FV wasn’t left in the laundry for a day! Hey Jim, how much vinegar do you use in your water solution? It’s good stuff the vinegar, we use it to clean the wood floors, porcelain tiles and the washing machine and dishwasher, but never thought to use it on my brewing gear though. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Jim Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I use a cup or two of double vinegar neat tossed into the rinsed FV and swish it around the sides of the fermenter before adding enough water to give the insides a tub. Then I immediately hand dry with a clean tea towel. Vinegar is a 4% solution of acetic acid and double vinegar is 8% acetic acid which makes for a very effective organic acid and ideal for brightening up an FV. It is also a mild disinfectant that can be splashed around the brewery, great for cleaning stainless steel, glass and plastics. Cheap as chips... and tasty on chips too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Yeah, I use citric acid for cleaning scale and such. Works well. That residue is certainly strange. I always soak fermenters overnight, and probably use about 10 times as much percarbonate in them, never had any issues with residue. Used to get a white film with nappy soakers which would wipe off but nothing with the straight percarbonate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 Hi Otto, Is it the citric acid you can get from Coles etc., in powder from? If so what is the ratio in the solution you use to clean brewing gear? Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The chemists will have a better idea than me but I notice a streaky residue is left behind by washing soda (sodium carbonate) bi carb (Sodium bicarbonate) and even brine so I have always figured the residue are salt marks. Wiki says 'Sodium percarbonate is produced industrially by crystallization of a solution of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide...Alternatively, dry sodium carbonate may be treated directly with concentrated hydrogen peroxide solution.' Perhaps it is washing soda (sodium carbonate) element in the sodium percarbonate that is responsible for the streaks. But that is not what has damaged James' fermenter. That's gritty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Yeah just the powdered one. I don't really have a ratio though, I buy it in bulk so I just tip in what looks about right for a few litres of water. I only use it in my urn, never had a need for it in plastic fermenters. Sodium carbonate is the white residue left behind after using perc. It's only more with nappy soakers because they contain a majority of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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