Munton's Gold Continental Pilsner Lager kit

[bigrmac]

After cutting my teeth on several coopers kits i'm ready to branch out, my current brew will be ready to drink in a few days so have ordered the aforementioned kit for my next brew.

This will be my first 'all extract' kit so I guess my question is, is there anything different to expect from one of these kits?

and, what type of yeast is used?

I also plan to up my water game with this brew, the tap water in my part of the world (Norfolk, England) is perfectly drinkable but is on the hard side as it is drawn from chalk aquifers, i think 25ltrs of basic supermarket spring water should help improve my brew quality 

 

TIA

[Journeyman]

3 hours ago, bigrmac said:

i think 25ltrs of basic supermarket spring water should help improve my brew quality

In these troubled times will they let you buy that much?  

[bigrmac]

20 hours ago, Journeyman said:

In these troubled times will they let you buy that much?  

might take a few trips...

 

[bigrmac]

Hi Again,

I have been procrastinating over the Muntons all extract brew for a while now, the kit came with a sachet marked 'lager yeast 6g'.

First off 6g seems far too little for a 25 litre lager brew

Second I am not able to find out much about this yeast, I did find one post on the home brew forum saying it is a true lager yeast and should be fermented at approx 13^oc

 

I am now thinking I might just get 2 sachets of Saflager S-23 but that might be easier said than done at the minute.

Thoughts?

 

[Graculus]

Would it be 23 litres?

I've never made a Muntons kit. I do know they had a reputation for not putting enough yeast in the kits.
I think it used to be 5 grams. I read quite a few stories on a UK forum about stuck brews.

If you ferment it at 13C you really only to buy one Saflager yeast. Use that and the Muntons.
That's what I'd do if the Muntons is a Lager yeast.

It was a while ago but I'm sure I've read if you're going to do the Lager at 13C or so you need two packets of yeast.
That's what I used the first time and then washed and reused the yeast.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Graculus

[Lab Cat]

33 minutes ago, bigrmac said:

Hi Again,

I have been procrastinating over the Muntons all extract brew for a while now, the kit came with a sachet marked 'lager yeast 6g'.

First off 6g seems far too little for a 25 litre lager brew

I am now thinking I might just get 2 sachets of Saflager S-23 but that might be easier said than done at the minute.

Thoughts?

 

I always use an aftermarket yeast. Kits yeasts are optimized to work at whatever amount they give you. But I have found certain brands/strains to be far more consistent and reliable, and none have come from under a tin.

[Graculus]

Can't edit my post above but at least one of the Coopers Lager recipes say to use 2 packets of Saflager.

I have done that in the past. I'm pretty sure I've also used the kit yeast from a Coopers Euro Lager and an extra Saflager too.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

I can say for certain that no kit lager done at lager temps using only the kit yeast will give you a good beer. Its not enough yeast to give you a good clean crisp ferment. 

[bigrmac]

2 hours ago, Graculus said:

Would it be 23 litres?

I've never made a Muntons kit. I do know they had a reputation for not putting enough yeast in the kits.
I think it used to be 5 grams. I read quite a few stories on a UK forum about stuck brews.

If you ferment it at 13C you really only to buy one Saflager yeast. Use that and the Muntons.
That's what I'd do if the Muntons is a Lager yeast.

It was a while ago but I'm sure I've read if you're going to do the Lager at 13C or so you need two packets of yeast.
That's what I used the first time and then washed and reused the yeast.

I will double check but I think its actually 25litres for this kit.

That seems to fit with what I expected, 6g fermenting at low temp and only fermenting extract. It just doesn't seem anywhere near enough to, especially when like you say 2x 11.5g S-23 sachets would likely be needed.

I still have bottles of my last brew in my fermentation fridge so no great rush, so might as well get the extra yeast.

Cheers all

[Thirsty Jim]

3 hours ago, Graculus said:

Can't edit my post above but at least one of the Coopers Lager recipes say to use 2 packets of Saflager.

I have done that in the past. I'm pretty sure I've also used the kit yeast from a Coopers Euro Lager and an extra Saflager too.

It's more than one @Graculus .  According to Shamus' Spreadsheet there are 24 brews classed as Lagers in the database . 

3 recipes called for 2 packets of W-34/70 - the Artisan Reserve,  Deuce Lager and Mr.Sinister

12 of them recipes use w-34/70 and a kit yeast in combination while the Light German Bock used 2 kit yeasts.

7 lager brews required just one W-34/70  while the Green Neck Lager was the only brew that only required one kit yeast.

The S-23 yeast was only used in two brews both in combination with the kit yeast (Black Beard Schwarzbier & Vintner's Lager)

[Graculus]

7 hours ago, James of Bayswater said:

It's more than one @Graculus .  According to Shamus' Spreadsheet there are 24 brews classed as Lagers in the database . 

3 recipes called for 2 packets of W-34/70 - the Artisan Reserve,  Deuce Lager and Mr.Sinister

12 of them recipes use w-34/70 and a kit yeast in combination while the Light German Bock used 2 kit yeasts.

7 lager brews required just one W-34/70  while the Green Neck Lager was the only brew that only required one kit yeast.

The S-23 yeast was only used in two brews both in combination with the kit yeast (Black Beard Schwarzbier & Vintner's Lager)

I only looked at a couple of recipes on the website.

I couldn't be bothered to go through them and so I thought I'd cover myself by saying at least one.

But generally it seems to brew Lager at a low temperature you need two packets.

I know on the UK forum I read people say it's very hard to get the Euro Lager to ferment out properly below 15 or 16C.

[Thirsty Jim]

I agree Graculus.   I was just illustrating how many Lagers in the recipe database require two packets of yeast and how they almost exclusively require the W-34/70 lager yeast for low temp fermenting.  

One point that further underlines it is that 6 of the 8 lagers that require only 1 packet of yeast are brewed to volumes of 10 litres or less. 

I am interested because I haven't brewed any true lagers but having recently acquired temperature control I intend to have a crack - and i'll be reaching for a couple of packets of W-34/70 when I do.   
 

[bigrmac]

11 hours ago, James of Bayswater said:

I agree Graculus.   I was just illustrating how many Lagers in the recipe database require two packets of yeast and how they almost exclusively require the W-34/70 lager yeast for low temp fermenting.  

One point that further underlines it is that 6 of the 8 lagers that require only 1 packet of yeast are brewed to volumes of 10 litres or less. 

I am interested because I haven't brewed any true lagers but having recently acquired temperature control I intend to have a crack - and i'll be reaching for a couple of packets of W-34/70 when I do.   
 

I have just bought 2x11.5g packs of Saflager S-23, that should do the trick

 

[bigrmac]

My 2 packs of S-23 have arrived and I am looking start the brew by the weekend, my next question is;

Would you pitch the yeast at 20^o ish, or go straight in at a fermentation temp. of 10^o?

I am using bottled water for this brew as our local water is very hard, meaning it is currently in my fermentation fridge at 18^o, the theory being when mixed with the warm/hot water used to mix the extract it should come out somewhere close to 20-23^o. I could easily drop this to around 10^o if needs be.

Another thing that has been on my mind, is there any reason why people prefer the W-34/70 over S-23? From what I have read there is little practical difference between the two?

[Shamus O'Sean]

I am no expert in this space, so happy to be corrected.

I typically pitch 1 rehydrated packet of W-34/70 at 20°C.  Leave for a few hours.  Then set temperature controller to 12°C.  Within 12 hours it is down to that temperature.  Never had issues.

Others start at lower temperature but with more yeast.  So with your 2 packets you could pitch at 10-12°C.

No reason why I favour W-34/70 over S-23.  It has just been the yeast specified or supplied in more of the recipes that I do.

[Graculus]

10 hours ago, bigrmac said:

My 2 packs of S-23 have arrived and I am looking start the brew by the weekend, my next question is;

Would you pitch the yeast at 20^o ish, or go straight in at a fermentation temp. of 10^o?

I am using bottled water for this brew as our local water is very hard, meaning it is currently in my fermentation fridge at 18^o, the theory being when mixed with the warm/hot water used to mix the extract it should come out somewhere close to 20-23^o. I could easily drop this to around 10^o if needs be.

Another thing that has been on my mind, is there any reason why people prefer the W-34/70 over S-23? From what I have read there is little practical difference between the two?

Yes, I've read there's very little difference too. I had a recipe that said use S23, so that's the one I've stuck with.

I've probably said before I've also read to use two packets. I'd generally pitch the rehydrated or reused yeast at about 20c.
Then set the fridge to 12-13c. I've never pitched the yeast straight in at a low temperature.

[bigrmac]

15 hours ago, Graculus said:

Yes, I've read there's very little difference too. I had a recipe that said use S23, so that's the one I've stuck with.

I've probably said before I've also read to use two packets. I'd generally pitch the rehydrated or reused yeast at about 20c.
Then set the fridge to 12-13c. I've never pitched the yeast straight in at a low temperature.

I guess pitching at the lower temp will ultimately just lead to a longer fermentation

[bigrmac]

Mutons Continental Gold Pilsner - 22/05/2020

OG = 1.039 which seems a little low

2 packs of S-23 Yeast pitched @ 27^oC 

Fermented @ 12^oC 

[bigrmac]

Its been a week since i pitched the yeast on this one, checked the SG today and we down to 1.011 already!

I was expecting this to be more like a 2 week fermentation with it being down at 12^o?

Would now be a good time for a diacetyl rest? It seems like its close to if not finished fermenting now.

[Shamus O'Sean]

Hi @bigrmac, If you have not upped the temperature yet, I would do it now.

I tend to increase the temperature of my lagers once they drop below 1.020 for the diacetyl rest.

[bigrmac]

Cheers Shamus,

I really wasnt expecting the fermentation to happen this quickly otherwise i would have checked it sooner, I will bump it up to 18^o now, what's the worst that can happen! lol

[bigrmac]

Well its been nearly 2 months and I have just finished the last of the batch...... and it was bloody great!

My only slight criticism would be it lacked body but other than that it was as good as anything you might get in a pub.

I am thinking of doing the Czech Pils from the receipt data base next, has anyone done it before? Any good?

[iBooz2]

@bigrmac I have done 3 x Coopers Czech Pils batches in the past couple of months and just laid down another last night.  All but the first was using about 1/3 of the re-claimed trub of the previous batch which originally was 1 x sachet of W-34/70 and the 1 x sachet of 86 day pilsner kit yeast.

Have not opened a bottle yet as they are all in the lager den doing their thing but going by the sample tastes at bottling each time was terrific.  It will probably be one of my stable brews each winter as I can just sit the FV's on the concrete floor of my brew shed and they hold at about 11.5 - 12.5 C.  (here in Melbourne). Only have to move them into a warmer spot for a few days D-Rest and then into a FV fridge to cold crash for 1 week.  My process is keep them low for 10 days, 4 days at 18 C for D-Rest then 7 days cold crash at 2 C.  When bottling time rolls around the beer is so clear in the FV I can see all the way down to the trub on the bottom which resembles a pizza base dough.

Can highly recommend this kit recipe and cannot wait to try it after a few cold months in the bottle.

Cheers - AL

[bigrmac]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:43 AM, iBooz2 said:

@bigrmac I have done 3 x Coopers Czech Pils batches in the past couple of months and just laid down another last night.  All but the first was using about 1/3 of the re-claimed trub of the previous batch which originally was 1 x sachet of W-34/70 and the 1 x sachet of 86 day pilsner kit yeast.

Have not opened a bottle yet as they are all in the lager den doing their thing but going by the sample tastes at bottling each time was terrific.  It will probably be one of my stable brews each winter as I can just sit the FV's on the concrete floor of my brew shed and they hold at about 11.5 - 12.5 C.  (here in Melbourne). Only have to move them into a warmer spot for a few days D-Rest and then into a FV fridge to cold crash for 1 week.  My process is keep them low for 10 days, 4 days at 18 C for D-Rest then 7 days cold crash at 2 C.  When bottling time rolls around the beer is so clear in the FV I can see all the way down to the trub on the bottom which resembles a pizza base dough.

Can highly recommend this kit recipe and cannot wait to try it after a few cold months in the bottle.

Cheers - AL

Did you just use LDM or did you add any other fermentable's? 

Did you dry hop as well?