Reusing Cooper's Yeast a 2nd time??

[GingerNuts81]

So I managed to harvest Cooper's yeast from a 6pack, that is working well in a Strong Ale atm, should be finished next weekend or so.

I was wondering if washing it again to use in an XPA would be wise? Cooper's website tells me to buy another 6pack per batch, but that becomes expensive at ~$20

[Shamus O'Sean]

15 minutes ago, GingerNuts81 said:

So I managed to harvest Cooper's yeast from a 6pack, that is working well in a Strong Ale atm, should be finished next weekend or so.

I was wondering if washing it again to use in an XPA would be wise? Cooper's website tells me to buy another 6pack per batch, but that becomes expensive at ~$20

I have re-used the Coopers harvested yeast twice and it was fine.  I was too worried about Coopers' warning to use it any more than that.

Not sure if there are really issues or if Coopers just want us to buy more beer from them.  It might be helpful to hear more about the science of re-using the Coopers yeast.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Shamus O'Sean
typo

[Otto Von Blotto]

I doubt it would be much different to reusing any other yeast. 

[BlackSands]

41 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

It might be helpful to hear more about the science of re-using the Coopers yeast.

I imagine it's no different to other brewers yeasts with regard to reuse.  I've reused a number of yeasts several times (max 5 cycles I think?) before starting over from a fresh packet (dry yeast).  There was a dude on Youtube who'd actually reused US-05 around twenty times who reported no obvious issues.   I think however there's always some risk of contamination and yeast do mutate but having said that I've also read of a brewery in the UK that has been repitching from batch to batch for over 50 years!  

Edited April 22, 2020 by BlackSands

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah I usually get at least 15 generations from a smack pack of wyeast. The only dry yeast I've reused like that was also us05 but I only got about 8-9 generations before it started producing crappy off flavours. 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

If you have good cleanliness and sanitation i have no doubt you could get hundreds of uses. Whether you can do that in a homebrew situation is another thing. Like kelsey i have got into the high teens and early 20s with a couple of yeasts. Then i started to get problems. Chimay yeast went and produced sweeter batches than normal and the budvar became a super attenuator. It tasted like budvar but was dry as hell.

PB2 did have his yeast in the 40 or 50 reuses. However from memory he just recultured bottles from his last batch over and over.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Still, 15-20 reuses is still a big saving, obviously minus the couple of dollars worth of dry malt for the starters each batch. Probably $200 worth of yeast over that many batches per strain... I keep three strains on hand so closer to $600 across all three or $200-$250 a year. Better than a kick up the bum

[ChristinaS1]

I bet that UK brewery has been using traditional methods, such as open fermentation and collecting yeast from krausen....Never varying methods (keeping to tradition) would slow down genetic drift, but it would still happen. I would bet dollars to donuts that yeast has changed over the 50 years. 

@GingerNuts81 Do you do full volume boils? People who don't do full volume boils probably should not re-pitch too often if they are collecting from the bottom of the FV, due to the risk of infection. Saving from starters is lower risk as the whole starter volume is boiled. 

Main reason to use Coopers Commercial Yeast is for its flavour profile. Part of getting the flavour right is pitching the same dose as they use at Coopers. Coopers can keep a close eye on the dose in their lab. In a home brew situation, it is easy to over-pitch, which will result in blander results.

Commercial breweries with a proprietary strain (such as Coopers) bank it at the Siebel Institute. It is my understanding that commercial breweries engage the Siebel Institute for help keeping the strain true to the original. I gather breweries send some of their production culture to the Siebel Institute on a periodic basis to have it compared to their original deposit. I suppose that if it starts to drift too far away from the original, the yeast bank provides them with some of their deposit. https://www.siebelinstitute.com/services/yeast-services/yeast-maintenance-and-evaluation-services

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited April 23, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[Bribie G]

Coopers yeast, when harvested and grown from their bottled beers, seems to develop more banana esters - as opposed to pear - if used more than a couple of times. Other than that, no problem.

[GingerNuts81]

16 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

I bet that UK brewery has been using traditional methods such as open fermentation and collecting yeast from krausen, in which case it would be harvested at the peak of health. Probably not comparable to common home brew methods such as collecting from the bottom of the bucket, or from starters. That being said, there is nothing to stop a home brewer from collecting from krausen....Never varying methods (keeping to tradition) would slow down genetic drift, as it would not have to adapt to changes.

@GingerNuts81 Do you do full volume boils? People who don't do full volume boils probably should not re-pitch too often if they are collecting from the bottom of the FV, due to the risk of infection. Saving from starters is lower risk as the whole starter volume is boiled. 

Main reason to use Coopers Commercial Yeast is for its flavour profile. Part of getting the flavour right is pitching the same dose as they use at Coopers. Coopers can keep a close eye on the dose in their lab. In a home brew situation, it is easy to over-pitch, which will result in blander results.

Commercial breweries with a proprietary strain (such as Coopers) bank it at the Siebel Institute. It is my understanding that commercial breweries engage the Siebel Institute for help keeping the strain true to the original. I gather breweries send some of their yeast to the Siebel Institute on a periodic basis to have it compared to their original deposit. I suppose that if it starts to drift too far away from their original, the yeast bank gives them some of their deposit back. https://www.siebelinstitute.com/services/yeast-services/yeast-maintenance-and-evaluation-services

Cheers,

Christina.

This is my first attempt at using Cooper's commercial yeast, I was happy it actually worked to tell the truth. 

 

I used it to make 23L, the XPA I was thinking of using it in next is 20L 

[GingerNuts81]

4 minutes ago, Bribie G said:

Coopers yeast, when harvested and grown from their bottled beers, seems to develop more banana esters - as opposed to pear - if used more than a couple of times. Other than that, no problem.

Well banana esters in an XPA wouldn't be the worse, would it?? 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Depends if you like banana I guess. Personally I'm not a fan of it in beer. 

[Titan]

22 minutes ago, GingerNuts81 said:

Well banana esters in an XPA wouldn't be the worse, would it?? 

In an xpa yes. Wheat beer no.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

If you overpitch CCA slightly and run it at 18c you won't get banana. Slight pear at most. Pitch rate and temp do make a difference with this yeast. Like a Belgian or a wheat.

[iBooz2]

Have not used the Cooper’s Commercial Yeast more than second generation so cannot comment that it will produce banana or pear.  I have used it in about seven batches since February this year; always make a new 2.5 litre starter every second batch from fresh six pack of Coopers Mild Ale which I split into three jars, one of which is pitched.  That way building up on yeast stock so I don’t have to buy more stubbies for a quite a while.

My favourite everyday drinking home brew recipe at the moment is my “Busty Blonde” recipe and making it every time the Cooper’s FV is emptied and cleaned out.  The fermzilla is used more for new recipes and pressure ferments just to try them out and see what I like and don’t like.  My two other FV’s are just blue drums and are both used for lager brews which are bottled and will be stored for a few months.  Not into porters or stouts just yet.

My Busty Blonde is damn quick and simple to mix up for and kit and kilo and good for upping my general "drinking beer" stocks whilst I muck around with other batches as a trial and error. 

It is simply:-

1 x 1.7 kg Coopers APA tin

1 x 1 kg Coopers BE2

1 x 500 g Coopers DME

20 g SAAZ hops steeped for 15 minutes in 500 ml of boiling water that has been allowed to cool to 80 C before putting hop sock in.

200 – 250 ml Coopers Commercial Yeast from harvest / starter which is pitched @ 24 C.  Once fermentation is confirmed it is dropped down to 18 C until it nears FG then temp is bumped back up to 22 C.

It conditions really quickly in the keg.  Last one was kegged on the 5^th April and the keg is almost done tonight.  Would have been gone a week ago but I had another keg to finish off to make room in the keg fridge and did not start on this one until Sunday just past.  Beautiful and clear, very moreish mid strength beer.  ABV = 4.2% in keg, EBC = 6.5, IBU = 21.3

The Coopers Commercial Yeast is my favourite at this point in time, just love the flavour it brings to my quaffing drop.

Cheers - AL