First drink.

[classiceuropa]

Ok guys some questions for you.

Had first drink a week ago of Coopers Australian pale ale with recommended brew2 ,been in bottles two weeks, thought it ok but needed a few more weeks , looked good had a two finger head. 

Now the last two bottles I filled I added an extra carbonation drop so 3 in total and being another week in bottles I decided to give one a try , yep plenty of head , not enough fingers to count but

what a fabulous taste , would not be for most guys but nice light taste and very little bitter.

So do you guys think being another week in bottles would make it taste better so quick or is it the 3 carbonation drops , does carbonation drops add more flavour. I would easily be happy to replicate it again so what should I be adding instead of another carb drop because it certainly adds pressure to the bottle and cap.

Cheers.          

   

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by classiceuropa

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

Carb drops are pure dextrose and shouldn’t impart any additional flavour. All they should give is CO2 and some alcohol.

The improved flavour is likely the extra week. 2 weeks is a fairly bare minimum if naturally conditioning.

[Titan]

I would say that it hadn't eaten all the sugar from the carb drops leaving a slightly sweater taste. You could try BE1 as i think it has more maltodextrine in it than BE2.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Maltodextrin doesn't really add any sweetness either. 

It probably was the extra time. More carbonation actually makes it taste less sweet not more, due to the effect of the carbonic acid.

You can demonstrate this quite easily with Coca cola. It still tastes sweet when it's fizzy but when it goes flat it tastes even more sweet, which is why its carbonation level is as high as it is, and something like solo is much lower - it doesn't need as much to offset the sweetness because the lemon itself helps. 

It's the same with beer, the hop bitterness obviously balances out the malt sweetness so high levels of carbonation aren't required and often lead to a pretty ordinary beer. 

[classiceuropa]

Ive tried another tonight , one with only the two carb drops and it is definitely better after another week but still not as good as the 3 carb drops.

So Ill let it sit another week and try taste test again.    

 

Appreciate your advice.

 

neil.

  

Edited April 5, 2020 by classiceuropa

[Malter White]

On 4/4/2020 at 9:56 PM, classiceuropa said:

Ok guys some questions for you.

Had first drink a week ago of Coopers Australian pale ale with recommended brew2 ,been in bottles two weeks, thought it ok but needed a few more weeks , looked good had a two finger head. 

Now the last two bottles I filled I added an extra carbonation drop so 3 in total and being another week in bottles I decided to give one a try , yep plenty of head , not enough fingers to count but

what a fabulous taste , would not be for most guys but nice light taste and very little bitter.

So do you guys think being another week in bottles would make it taste better so quick or is it the 3 carbonation drops , does carbonation drops add more flavour. I would easily be happy to replicate it again so what should I be adding instead of another carb drop because it certainly adds pressure to the bottle and cap.

Cheers.          

   

 

Hi Neil.

I also like a bit more carbonation than what two carb drops provides, so I also use sugar cubes. Carb drops are 3grams, sugar cubes are 4.5grams. I add one of each to each 750ml bottle. It's only slightly less than the 3 carb drops you've used but less threat of bottle bombs (if using glass) or PETs going soft.

The carbonation builds over longer periods, so if you're adding more priming sugar the risk of explosion or failing increases over time. Drink up!

Oh, pale ale and BE2 are my go-to brew. I like to add a hop tea of EKG hops on brew day. Just as a suggestion. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by MUZZY

[classiceuropa]

17 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Hi Neil.

I also like a bit more carbonation than what two carb drops provides, so I also use sugar cubes. Carb drops are 3grams, sugar cubes are 4.5grams. I add one of each to each 750ml bottle. It's only slightly less than the 3 carb drops you've used but less threat of bottle bombs (if using glass) or PETs going soft.

The carbonation builds over longer periods, so if you're adding more priming sugar the risk of explosion or failing increases over time. Drink up!

Oh, pale ale and BE2 are my go-to brew. I like to add a hop tea of EKG hops on brew day. Just as a suggestion. 

Thanks buddy , I did use the BE2 , will give it another few weeks and try , big learning curve here.

You mention you prefer a bit more carbonation which I do as well , have you tried the sparkling ale and thoughts ?? how does it compare to the Australian pale ale.

cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

The amount of carbonation is up to you, the kits don't determine it. 

Having said that, there are styles that are better with a lower carbonation level like stouts and porters. Having had over carbonated beers in these styles I can say, at least for me, that higher carbonation can ruin a beer. Completely drowned out the flavour and made it rather unpleasant. 

[Malter White]

12 hours ago, classiceuropa said:

Thanks buddy , I did use the BE2 , will give it another few weeks and try , big learning curve here.

You mention you prefer a bit more carbonation which I do as well , have you tried the sparkling ale and thoughts ?? how does it compare to the Australian pale ale.

cheers

I enjoy Coopers Sparkling Ale (the real thing, that is). I've only just mixed my first one together on Sunday, so I can't really give any feedback yet.
1.7kg Innkeepers Daughter Sparkling Ale tin
1.5kg Liquid Light Malt Extract tin
1.5 cups dextrose
I've padded it out to 25 litres instead the usual 23 because the LME is more than a box of BE and the added dextrose will keep the ABV in the range where it should be. OG was 1.040.
As it's my first attempt I haven't added any hops and don't intend to. I didn't want to mess with the flavour because I figure Coopers know how to make nice beer. If it lacks something when I get to try it, I can always do hop additions on subsequent brews.

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

6 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

I enjoy Coopers Sparkling Ale (the real thing, that is). I've only just mixed my first one together on Sunday, so I can't really give any feedback yet.
1.7kg Innkeepers Daughter Sparkling Ale tin
1.5kg Liquid Light Malt Extract tin
1.5 cups dextrose
I've padded it out to 25 litres instead the usual 23 because the LME is more than a box of BE and the added dextrose will keep the ABV in the range where it should be. OG was 1.040.
As it's my first attempt I haven't added any hops and don't intend to. I didn't want to mess with the flavour because I figure Coopers know how to make nice beer. If it lacks something when I get to try it, I can always do hop additions on subsequent brews.

I did this one a while back. Gave a few bottles to my brother-in-law who loves the original sparkling ale, and he really liked it. It does improve with bottle ageing this one. I’ve only got a couple of bottles left and it’s just got really nice, even though it’s about 4 months old now.

[Malter White]

1 minute ago, NewBrews said:

I did this one a while back. Gave a few bottles to my brother-in-law who loves the original sparkling ale, and he really liked it. It does improve with bottle ageing this one. I’ve only got a couple of bottles left and it’s just got really nice, even though it’s about 4 months old now.

In just over 2 years of home brewing I've never had a beer age as long as 4 months. It's a demand versus supply thing because I drink them in the order they were made. With the cooler weather approaching I could possibly stretch it out to 2 months. Hopefully that's enough.

[UncleStavvy]

With the cooler weather approaching in Adelaide, how critical is ambient temp during carbonation? I've got a batch of lager and a stout just about ready but was wondering if the stout should go into the shed for warmth?

[Otto Von Blotto]

3 minutes ago, UncleStavvy said:

With the cooler weather approaching in Adelaide, how critical is ambient temp during carbonation? I've got a batch of lager and a stout just about ready but was wondering if the stout should go into the shed for warmth?

Beers done with ale yeast should be kept about 18 or warmer (to a point, not too high), at least until the beer is carbonated, after that it doesn't matter. If it's done with true lager yeast then it doesn't really matter if it drops too much because these yeasts keep working down to single figure temps. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Otto Von Blotto

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

11 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

In just over 2 years of home brewing I've never had a beer age as long as 4 months. It's a demand versus supply thing because I drink them in the order they were made. With the cooler weather approaching I could possibly stretch it out to 2 months. Hopefully that's enough.

You need to brew more!

 

2 minutes ago, UncleStavvy said:

With the cooler weather approaching in Adelaide, how critical is ambient temp during carbonation? I've got a batch of lager and a stout just about ready but was wondering if the stout should go into the shed for warmth?

Carbonation is really a second fermentation so is pretty reliant on the yeast used. If the lager was done with a real lager yeast, it’ll carbonate it at a lower temperature in the 15 or 16 range quite happily, might just take a bit longer.

Ales on the other hand, like the stout, generally require higher temps to ferment, therefore carbonate. But it again depends on the yeast strain. Nottingham will handle it colder almost down to the lager temps. US05 and S04 will need it up nearer 20.

Does that help Unc?

[UncleStavvy]

The stout was done with the Thomas Cooper lager yeast and the lager with ale yeast cos I'm a newbie(long story)

[Malter White]

8 minutes ago, NewBrews said:

You need to brew more!

Newbrews, you need to talk some sense to my wife. She made the ridiculous recommendation that I should drink less!!

[Journeyman]

6 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Newbrews, you need to talk some sense to my wife. She made the ridiculous recommendation that I should drink less!!

Try the "You won't like me when I'm sober but actually have beer I could be drinking..." approach.

[Instigator]

14 hours ago, MUZZY said:

In just over 2 years of home brewing I've never had a beer age as long as 4 months. It's a demand versus supply thing because I drink them in the order they were made. With the cooler weather approaching I could possibly stretch it out to 2 months. Hopefully that's enough.

My Sparkling Ale has been a month in the bottle. It's definitely improving, but I'm underwhelmed by the carbonation. I used CCA yeast for the brew and two carb drops in the tallies. I'm seriously tempted to open a few, chuck another drop in and recap. I like your idea of one drop and a sugar cube. Will try that in a future batch.

[Malter White]

50 minutes ago, Instigator said:

My Sparkling Ale has been a month in the bottle. It's definitely improving, but I'm underwhelmed by the carbonation. I used CCA yeast for the brew and two carb drops in the tallies. I'm seriously tempted to open a few, chuck another drop in and recap. I like your idea of one drop and a sugar cube. Will try that in a future batch.

I've only tried harvesting CCA yeast once and had similar issues. The ferment stalled. I think maybe I didn't grow enough yeast cells. I wonder if that might be why your carbonation is low also? Not enough yeast to eat the sugars. I dunno but my failure was enough for me to not try it again. I just use the kit yeasts now.

[Otto Von Blotto]

You probably didn't. I don't see how tipping a bit of sugar water into dregs from a few bottles could possibly grow enough yeast to ferment an entire batch, or at least do it in a decent timeframe.  

If I was gonna use it I'd do the same process but then put what I'd harvested into a 1-1.5 litre malt based starter to grow it up properly. Then pitch it. 

 

[Instigator]

9 hours ago, MUZZY said:

I've only tried harvesting CCA yeast once and had similar issues. The ferment stalled. I think maybe I didn't grow enough yeast cells. I wonder if that might be why your carbonation is low also? Not enough yeast to eat the sugars. I dunno but my failure was enough for me to not try it again. I just use the kit yeasts now.

I've been growing my CCA yeast with a stirplate starter. It's definitely fermenting out fine. I pitched the FV yeast dregs from my SA batch into another starter a couple of nights ago. Within 30 minutes the krausen nearly foamed out the top of the erlenmeyer flask. The yeast seem to be healthy.

On the other hand, I have a thought that's been niggling at my brain. I usually do a cold crash of about a week. I'm starting to wonder if I'm dropping out too much of the yeast so that when I bottle it's taking a long time to carbonate, or it's stalling in the bottle. 

[Malter White]

26 minutes ago, Instigator said:

I've been growing my CCA yeast with a stirplate starter. It's definitely fermenting out fine. I pitched the FV yeast dregs from my SA batch into another starter a couple of nights ago. Within 30 minutes the krausen nearly foamed out the top of the erlenmeyer flask. The yeast seem to be healthy.

On the other hand, I have a thought that's been niggling at my brain. I usually do a cold crash of about a week. I'm starting to wonder if I'm dropping out too much of the yeast so that when I bottle it's taking a long time to carbonate, or it's stalling in the bottle. 

I've only cold crashed a handful of brews and 3 days was the longest, so I can hardly offer advice but what you say makes sense. You might need to try a shorter crash or none at all and see if your results improve.
I sometimes wonder if cold crash is worth doing, as I imagine refrigerating your bottles for a few days would probably do the same thing. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Edited April 8, 2020 by MUZZY

[Journeyman]

20 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

I've only cold crashed a handful of brews and 3 days was the longest, so I can hardly offer advice but what you say makes sense. You might need to try a shorter crash or none at all and see if your results improve.
I sometimes wonder if cold crash is worth doing, as I imagine refrigerating your bottles for a few days would probably do the same thing. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Wouldn't CC'ing in the bottles simply drop more sediment? Also, I presume you mean no CC, bottle, condition and then the fridge? Because if you bottle then cool them THEN condition, wouldn't you just have the same problem? The yeast would all have settled and unless you shake the bottles there will still not be enough yeast to carb at normal rates.

But I don't think that's the issue. I've CC'd since I had the fridge, on 2 occasions for almost a week  (life got in the way) and my carb levels are great. Have had a bottle or 2 out of a couple of hundred lack adequate head but normally I have to pour carefully to not get a 10 cm head on a beer.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Journeyman

[Malter White]

3 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Wouldn't CC'ing in the bottles simply drop more sediment? Also, I presume you mean no CC, bottle, condition and then the fridge? Because if you bottle then cool them THEN condition, wouldn't you just have the same problem? The yeast would all have settled and unless you shake the bottles there will still not be enough yeast to carb at normal rates.

But I don't think that's the issue. I've CC'd since I had the fridge, on 2 occasions for almost a week  (life got in the way) and my carb levels are great. Have had a bottle or 2 out of a couple of hundred lack adequate head but normally I have to pour carefully to not get a 10 cm head on a beer.

Yeah, what I meant was no CC. Bottle at ambient temperature and let condition, then refrigerate for a couple of days before drinking.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Never noticed any difference in carbonation times from cold crashing. I used to cold condition lagers for a month or more before bottling and they still carbonated in a couple of weeks. 

It might look like there is a lot less yeast in suspension and there is, but it's not enough to stuff carbonation up. More likely they aren't warming up enough if it's taking ages.