Fermenting under pressure

[iBooz2]

39 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Makes sense... but am trying to work out the practicality of it...

So are you guys running a second FV or just a jar/hydro tube with similar bit of brew tapped off early.... and similar temps etc for the hydro testing?

But keeping it without influence of any wild yeasts?

That's the idea Burbler.  I just said like a second FV so people would get the idea.  The second FV is the actual hydro test tube with sample.  See pic with hydro behind blow off bottle.

I guess there is a risk and a FG difference if wild yeast get into this sample but so far in my FV fridges not a problem and there is a super high risk in my environment as I brew a shipload of home made ginger beer in the springtime and it uses the natural wild yeasts so its everywhere here.  Do not cover it, just sit it in the fridge alongside the FV, door is opened regular to check on pressure etc. and look at the gravity reading.  Do not clean out FV unless there is a spill or some other mishap so I am not over the top worrying about the wild things.

So if I can do it in my environment then anyone can.

Cheers - AL

Edited September 8, 2020 by iBooz2

[Shamus O'Sean]

16 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

I suspect you guys have got nice glass sample tubes and sterilise them well.... my two last lovely glass hydro cylinders are all broken and am back with the Coopers Plazzi tube ha ha with the fancy schmancy glass hydro ha ha!?

Nah.  I use a plastic one piece tube I got online from somewhere.  Also use the Coopers plazzi tube with the red base sometimes.  I pop it in a small container because it leaks a few drops.  Also running with the old Coopers red and white hydrometer.

LOL re: your legendary beer story.

[Pezzza]

25 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

That's the idea Burbler.

Hey Boozer where d'ya get that festive base plate shelfie thing from mate?  Is a beautiful thing and I need one ; )

[Marty_G]

9 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Is a beautiful thing and I need one ; )

Can buy checker plate from Bunnings.      https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=Aluminium plate&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60

[Pickles Jones]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Can buy checker plate from Bunnings.      https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=Aluminium plate&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60

Looks good. were you able to get a piece you didn't need to cut. What thickness did you use. Thanks.

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Pickles Jones said:

Looks good. were you able to get a piece you didn't need to cut. What thickness did you use. Thanks.

I didn't use it for a fridge shelf.  I use it for other things. As far as cutting: it is aluminium cutting it is easy. 

 

[iBooz2]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:43 PM, Bearded Burbler said:

Hey Boozer where d'ya get that festive base plate shelfie thing from mate?  Is a beautiful thing and I need one ; )

Hey Burbler,  yes Marty is almost right.  Its called propeller plate aluminium and is 1.6 mm thick.  Much more shinier that ordinary checker plate.  I have put the propellers down so its easier to clean.  You could even put some bits/lengths of pinch weld (automotive stuff) on edges so as not to scratch your fridge internals.

Yes you can cut aluminium fairly easily with a power saw or jig-saw etc. but bear in mind circular saw blades designed to cut ali have a different off-set on their teeth so they don't grab (yes I have one).  You need to lube the blade first on an ordinary power saw, say run the blade though or into some bees wax first or use some silicone spray lube.  If using an angle grinder with cut off wheel make sure its stamped for ali (has box on label to say so) otherwise it will clog up and grab, maybe be very dangerous.

Pity you are so far away as I have acres of this stuff left over from my big 22 ft off-road caravan build and its all heading to the scrap metal yard.  If postage was economical I could cut you some to your measurements and post up, dunno.

Cheers - AL

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

On 9/9/2020 at 8:55 AM, Pickles Jones said:

Looks good. were you able to get a piece you didn't need to cut. What thickness did you use. Thanks.

PJ - see my post above.  Most aluminum suppliers will not cut sheets, you may have to go to a tool box manufacturer or similar and get them to cut one for you from one of their off-cuts / scrap bits.

I used 1.6 mm with vertical wooden brace to help take the weight of FV.

Cheers - AL

[kmar92]

A big thank you to all that have posted in this thread, you have given great advice and a lot of tips. I have already done a Plisener clone that fermented and C/C'ed in 7 days and is now kegged and lagering, sample on kegging tasted great and it was exceptionally clear. The tip about using a carb cap on a 1.25lt drink bottle to clean and sanitise the tranfer line on the closed transfer was a great tip.

I currently have a Beer Lao lager clone in the 27lt conical fermenter and it is going gangbusters. Pitched W34/70 @ 21° 2 days ago. Within 12 hours it was away @ 22° and at 14psi. OG was 1.050 and 2 days later the SG is 1.019. Expected FG is 1.011 so it should get there in 1 more day. Pressure fermenting is the ant's pants!

[iBooz2]

@kmar92 Good to hear you are on top of it and the brews are going well.  Mine will have another batch going in later this afternoon.  It's in full time employment these days of total lock-down and the stash of beers is looking real good for the summer.

Cheers - AL

[Lettucegrove]

Currently cold crashing my second fermented under pressure lager. My first had a loose fitting so I didn't get to experience the full pressure ferment benefits so I am looking forward to this new one. The sample tasted exquisite so the countdown to keg day is on. 

One question I would like to ask is, when cold crashing with residual pressure in the keg, how much is needed to ensure the beer comes out fully carbed? I am currently cold crashing with 15PSI of pressure in the keg. is this too much, too little?

[Pezzza]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:12 PM, iBooz2 said:

If postage was economical I could cut you some to your measurements and post up, dunno.

Tx mate!!!!    I think I have a redundant aluminium sign in the shed somewhere that could be cut to size and will investigate available mates to cut neatly to size ; )

Didna think of the al sheet thing... 

[Rafael Pestano]

Quote

One question I would like to ask is, when cold crashing with residual pressure in the keg, how much is needed to ensure the beer comes out fully carbed? I am currently cold crashing with 15PSI of pressure in the keg. is this too much, too little?

Hi @LETTUCEGROVE, I'm not very experienced in pressurised fermentation (starting to do it this weekend by the way) but with 15 PSI at 34F/1C you can only reach 3.09 levels of CO2 in beer (according to beer carbonation chart) no matter how much CO2 was absorbed during fermentation.

I hope it helps.

 

[Lettucegrove]

Thanks @Rafael Pestano 

As a follow up, when I was transferring this from the FV to its keg i sampled a little and i found it to be just about, but not quite carbed up. Definitely drinkable with a little spritz on the tongue. A day or two on serving pressure and it'll be good to go.  Thanks for the free co2 Yeaties! Speaking of co2, I used an empty spent keg that was still pressurised and full of residual co2 to push out the freshly brewed beer into it's serving keg. Co2 savings all round!! 

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

I used an empty spent keg that was still pressurised and full of residual co2 to push out the freshly brewed beer into it's serving keg. Co2 savings all round!! 

I will have to remember this one.  I could use the pressurised empty keg to purge some of the sanitiser in my Purge Sanitiser to Fill Keg with CO2 process.  I wonder how much sanitiser a pressurised empty keg would push out of the keg full of sanitiser.

[Lettucegrove]

@Shamus O'Sean give it a crack mate. I got roughly one keg of beer filled with one keg of co2.

Have you ever thought of not sanitising your kegs before filling with beer? I stopped doing this 10 kegs ago and haven't looked back. I haven't had and issues pop up doing this. I just clean them with napisan and rinse with hot water a couple of times.

[Pezzza]

33 minutes ago, Lettucegrove said:

just clean them with napisan and rinse with hot water a couple of times.

I rinse out with hot water to remove yeast/floc partics.   Follow that with rinse and violent shake of a mild Starsan boiling water solution that has bubbles.  Then a couple or so with more boiling water to ensure bubbles are gone.  And off we go.  Never fill the kegs - only a few inches in bottom and then some shaking.  Fill from the, then bit of pressure and pumped out the liquid pipe/post and clean my line and pluto gun/s go as we go.  Seems to work well. 

[Lettucegrove]

11 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Never fill the kegs - only a few inches in bottom and then some shaking.  

Yep same, a few inches in the keg and a good ol shake sorts it out

[Marty_G]

Learned a lesson with the pressure fermentation over the last week and a bit.  When using Urquell 2001 it can go to 30c under pressure and just rip through those sugars. But need to put some pressure on from the start as in the time it takes to build to 15psi it is enough to leave a hint of fusel flavours in the brew.  Hopefully they will condition out.  Had a bit of a heat wave in SEQ last week and the daytime temps got close to 30c. I have been fermenting my lagers, I always pressure ferment,  at ambient with a heat belt at 24c through winter. Last week it was way over that and the yeast went nutso.  Oh well that was a lesson learned.    

[Frankie4Fingers]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Learned a lesson with the pressure fermentation over the last week and a bit.  When using Urquell 2001 it can go to 30c under pressure and just rip through those sugars. But need to put some pressure on from the start as in the time it takes to build to 15psi it is enough to leave a hint of fusel flavours in the brew.  Hopefully they will condition out.  Had a bit of a heat wave in SEQ last week and the daytime temps got close to 30c. I have been fermenting my lagers, I always pressure ferment,  at ambient with a heat belt at 24c through winter. Last week it was way over that and the yeast went nutso.  Oh well that was a lesson learned.    

Having been following this thread I actually had a thought that a table / excel sheet or whatever could be a good idea. The premise being you add the yeast used, the temp fermented at, the time taken to ferment, any increases in temp and at which point etc etc and then the general outcome.

I thought this could be a useful resource for those, me included, who were looking to start fermenting under pressure but weren't sure of the various dynamics with the yeast they were using.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Frankie4Fingers

[Shamus O'Sean]

On 10/2/2020 at 12:58 PM, Lettucegrove said:

Have you ever thought of not sanitising your kegs before filling with beer?

Not so far.  I have used the same 19L of sanitiser to purge about six kegs so they are left filled with CO2. I expect to be able to keep using it for a while yet.  The sanitiser gets left in the last keg ready for next cleaning day.

[Marty_G]

10 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Not so far.  I have used the same 19L of sanitiser to purge about six kegs so they are left filled with CO2. I expect to be able to keep using it for a while yet.  The sanitiser gets left in the last keg ready for next cleaning day.

Same method I use.   Do you also flush the transfer lines and the picnic tap, I assume you use one for samples, with the same stuff. It is such an easy method.  

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Same method I use.   Do you also flush the transfer lines and the picnic tap, I assume you use one for samples, with the same stuff. It is such an easy method.  

Hey MartyG, of the many numbers, I do not fully understand your question.  The transfer line gets flushed in the process, firstly with the sanitiser going for keg 1 to keg 2.  When keg 1 is empty, some CO2 will go into the transfer line and bubble to the top of keg 2.  I disconnect the transfer line quickly.  It will be left full of CO2 and some sanitiser.

I do not use a picnic tap.  Where does that fit into your process?  Or are you talking about something different like fermenting in a keg.  I have never done that.

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I do not use a picnic tap.  Where does that fit into your process?  Or are you talking about something different like fermenting in a keg.  I have never done that.

As this was the "fermenting under pressure thread" I assumed you would also take samples while it was fermenting and to do that you would need a tap.  As for flushing the lines: I mean after you do a closed transfer from the fermenter you would need to flush the transfer line as it would have beer in it. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

As this was the "fermenting under pressure thread" I assumed you would also take samples while it was fermenting and to do that you would need a tap.  As for flushing the lines: I mean after you do a closed transfer from the fermenter you would need to flush the transfer line as it would have beer in it. 

Sorry, now I understand.  I drifted well off topic.

Although I do not pressure ferment (yet), I transfer from the fermenter to kegs via gravity.  I make up an Oxy San solution about 2 litres.  Run some through the line.  Stop the flow and leave it for 5-10 minutes.  Run the rest through.  Rinse with around 2 litres of warm water.  Usually then fill the line with sanitiser for storage.  If using a picnic tap I would do the same.