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Fermenting under pressure


PhilboBaggins

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I have the blow tie and I'm after fiddling around a bit and she has been set to 10 psi for last few days. I have to admit pressure fermenting is a beautiful thing. 

Anyone have any tips on dry hopping by opening the lid. I don't have the collection jar model of the vessel.  Do I just purge purge purge and open slowly ?

 

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27 minutes ago, PaddyBrew2 said:

I have the blow tie and I'm after fiddling around a bit and she has been set to 10 psi for last few days. I have to admit pressure fermenting is a beautiful thing. 

Anyone have any tips on dry hopping by opening the lid. I don't have the collection jar model of the vessel.  Do I just purge purge purge and open slowly ?

 

Ok Dry hopping is an issue. If you are going to dry hop slowly back of the pressure... say over a 5 minute period then open the lid. If you just release the pressure and then open you will he a gusher as the CO2 escapes the brew and the trub will turn over to the top of the brew.   

 

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Well this ferment that I am doing with W34/70 is going gang busters. Pitched at 5pm on Tuesday OG 1050 expected FG 1009 and this morning it is at 1012. Temp was set at 20c and pressure 15psi. It has warmed naturally to 23.9 as it was a warm winters day here in SEQ yesterday.  So in less that 72 hours it is a few points of predicted FG.  Had a taste test and boy is it good.  The late addition Saaz which was only small is popping.  I think it is safe predict that this will be in the keg within 7 days from pitching. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 6:38 PM, PaddyBrew2 said:

I have the blow tie and I'm after fiddling around a bit and she has been set to 10 psi for last few days. I have to admit pressure fermenting is a beautiful thing. 

Anyone have any tips on dry hopping by opening the lid. I don't have the collection jar model of the vessel.  Do I just purge purge purge and open slowly ?

 

Hey Paddy,

I'm still fiddling as you did. Finding it hard to get that sweet spot where it doesn't keep dropping but it's not completely closed. Any tips for this based on your experience?

Here's my setup btw. Dark Ale can and a BE3 at 19°.

Cheers

Steve

20200614_182245.jpg

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On 6/12/2020 at 9:44 AM, MartyG1525230263 said:

Well this ferment that I am doing with W34/70 is going gang busters. Pitched at 5pm on Tuesday OG 1050 expected FG 1009 and this morning it is at 1012. Temp was set at 20c and pressure 15psi. It has warmed naturally to 23.9 as it was a warm winters day here in SEQ yesterday.  So in less that 72 hours it is a few points of predicted FG.  Had a taste test and boy is it good.  The late addition Saaz which was only small is popping.  I think it is safe predict that this will be in the keg within 7 days from pitching. 

Well this ferment is over and in the keg.  FG was 1008 so attenuation of 76% which is a point under predicted.  So pitched on Tuesday and kegged on Sunday.  Harvest the yeast and pitch yesterday into a new brew I did.  Will have a taste of this in a couple of days currently crashing in the keg and carbonating.  Fermenting lagers is where pressure is suppose to excel. Very happy with the ferment time grain to keg in 6 days.   My old non pressure regime would have taken between 12 and 14 days to get to the keg.  So already saving a week.  Now the clincher will be if the need to lager has been eliminated.  Which if it goes to plan it will be. 

 

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My god fermenting lagers at this temp with pressure is like using Kveik. Pitched the yeast on Monday at around 3pm with an OG of 1046. This morning it has dropped 32 points to 1014. Once again the temp was at 20c when pitched but has risen naturally to 23.5c.   The previous lager I did has been in the keg now since Monday and is at serving temp. It  tastes clean and crisp as one would be expected when using a lager yeast.  All those who are pressure fermenting highly recommend cranking up the temp on the lager yeast to the max it has on the yeast range.  

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On 6/14/2020 at 7:23 PM, SG114 said:

Hey Paddy,

I'm still fiddling as you did. Finding it hard to get that sweet spot where it doesn't keep dropping but it's not completely closed. Any tips for this based on your experience?

Here's my setup btw. Dark Ale can and a BE3 at 19°.

Cheers

Steve

20200614_182245.jpg

So I'm on day four now and pressure is starting to drop, from 11psi, it's down around 9.  I reckon this means active fermentation is finished (or at least finishing) but I'll take a reading to confirm.  Might stick my flow control tap on the liquid disconnect to get a sample.

I'll leave it for a few days then cold crash, most likely start crashing on Saturday.  Question for you guys though, do you pressurise during cold crash?  I believe that the colder it gets, the more CO2 it absorbs, possibly leading to negative pressure.  It strikes me as wise to stick the gas on it at 10psi or so while cold crashing.  Is this a good move?  If I do this, how well carbed is it likely to be by the end of cold crash?

Cheers

Steve

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Hey mate. Sorry for late reply. Yeah I just fiddled with it and hit that sweet spot. I just took a final reading and it has attenuated way down to 1.005 which is a bit off the beer Smith estimated 1.013. Was looking for a 6 percent beer but will be now seven 

Have it cold crashing for a couple of days and will pressure transfer

 

Anyone have any tips on enclosed transfers?

Does pressure fermenting cause over attenuation. I made a yeast starter on a stir plate over three days using whitelabs California ale 

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On 6/12/2020 at 9:44 AM, MartyG1525230263 said:

Well this ferment that I am doing with W34/70 is going gang busters. Pitched at 5pm on Tuesday OG 1050 expected FG 1009 and this morning it is at 1012. Temp was set at 20c and pressure 15psi. It has warmed naturally to 23.9 as it was a warm winters day here in SEQ yesterday.  So in less that 72 hours it is a few points of predicted FG.  Had a taste test and boy is it good.  The late addition Saaz which was only small is popping.  I think it is safe predict that this will be in the keg within 7 days from pitching. 

Wow. Pressure fermenting seems like the go. Reduces oxygen intake and time to ferment. What are the downfalls you have seen or others? Obviously they do not outweigh the benefits but I would like to know.

Cheers

Norris

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1 hour ago, Norris! said:

What are the downfalls you have seen or others? Obviously they do not outweigh the benefits but I would like to know.

1) Dry hopping is one. It is not as easy. Pressure has to be released and that causes issues with the over flowing from the release of CO2 from solution and the turnover of the trub.  2) the gear can be expensive. It took the economic route and use a 25 litre keg I bought when I 1st started kegging.  So the only extra expense was a spunding valve, a floating dip tube and a line for closed transfer.  I did not make one because buying one is just a cheap. 3) need for an external utility line for CO2. If you keg highly recommend a second cylinder or an external utility line. I have both but use the utility line now as i have sort of gifted my son the spare gas bottle and reg. 4) only suitable for some types of beers. If you like beers with lots of yeasty esters well pressure is not suitable. 5) well cant think of a fifth.   

The positives are many and I would recommend that all brewers at some stage develop the ability to pressure ferment. Anyone who kegs can quite easily turn a keg into a unitank by getting a spunding valve and a floating dip tube. They don't have to use it all the time but it is there if they need to. My bet is once they start pressure fermenting if it suits them they will rarely use a conventional FV.   For me, it suits the types of beers I like to brew. About 95% of my beers are yeast neutral malt driven bitterness balanced British and European style ales and lagers. I also do "swap and go kegs" for my son and son in-law. My son has my beer taste but the son in-law likes bigger hoppier APA and IPA new world hopped beers. I make them as well with neutral yeasts but use late hop additions and hop stands rather than dry hops for him and the pressure ferment works a treat as it helps hold the aroma and flavour in the brew.  To me it is a no brainer, if you keg you can easily develop the option to pressure ferment.  

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6 minutes ago, Norris! said:

Have you or anyone tried dry hopping at the beginning of fermentation?

Thank you for the run down! I might give it a try, I have a keg I want to get rid of and fermenting in it might be the go.

I am pretty sure that @ChristinaS1 has done some dry hopping under pressure maybe she will reply. 

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1 hour ago, Norris! said:

Have you or anyone tried dry hopping at the beginning of fermentation?

Thank you for the run down! I might give it a try, I have a keg I want to get rid of and fermenting in it might be the go.

I just dry hopped my first batch on Saturday. you just need to release the pressure through the PRV over about 5-10 mins. think of opening a bottle of fizz that was shook. slowly slowly does the job. Once you have released pressure enough times, you just undo the lid, the remaining bit of pressure in there will pop the lid and you just need to  chuck the hops in. You shouldnt see any major foaming up if youve been patient releasing it.

Alternatively, i have read people use hop socks with magnets. External magnet holds the hop filled hop sock up from the wort when you close the vessel after putting the wort in. then when its time to dry hop, remove your magnet and in she plops. But seems like an effort cos i found it quite easy 

 

Marty is right , i was thinking of getting a second gas bottle and regulator but it only takes two mins to detach it from kegerator and i bought some new gas line and a fitting to hook it up to the fermenter

Im gonna do my enclosed transfer saturday and im a bit nervous as i need to read up on it but it looks pretty simple enough. Gas to gas and beer to beer from fermenter to keg. make sure the pressure in keg is less than fermenter and should transfer easy ! ?

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6 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

I am pretty sure that @ChristinaS1 has done some dry hopping under pressure maybe she will reply. 

Hi @Norris! Yes, I tried it once, three batches ago. The hop used was Denali, which I have never used before.  I did a 20 minute hop stand (2g/L) starting at FO and added more at pitching time (1.3g/L), and then removed them after three days of fermentation. I fermented with MJ' West Coast Ale yeast, which is supposed to be better than most at biotransformation. I ended up not liking the results.

There is not much info about Denali, but it is supposed to be "pineapple with notes of citrus and pine," and is extremely high in total toils. I didn't get any pineapple or citrus from it; I found it very piney and astringent, and that it is about it. I am not sure if it was when I added the hops, the high level of total oils, or the yeast, that lead to the loss of pineapple and citrus, and the introduction of astringency, but I wonder. Maybe the pineapple and citrus would have been there had I used it post fermentation?

If you are interested in biotransformation, this video (by a fellow Canuck) sums it up pretty well.

At the 23 minute mark they show a chart which ranks common yeast strains for their ability to perform biotransformation. I think MJ West Coast is a dry form of American Ale, and that US-05 is a dry form of Cali yeast. As an aside, I have been using WLP 095 Burlington Ale yeast, which I believe is the same as the Vermont strain on the chart. I find Burlington Ale yeast delicious, very fruity, but a bit quirky to work with.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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53 minutes ago, Lettucegrove said:

Hey @MartyG1525230263 what would you say your pressure fermented W34/70 lager process looks like. Temp control? Pressure applied or left to build naturally? Big starter? After your successes I am pretty keen to give your version of a lager a crack.

Welcome to the Lettucegrove. I have done consecutive lagers using the W34/70 @ 15psi and my method is.

1) Wort chilled to 20c or a tad below and pitched.  The 1st beer I did was with a fresh packet of W34/70 and some old slurry I had that had been sitting in the fridge for maybe a year. The second  was with a slurry harvested that day from the brew that had been kegged while doing the mash. 

2) Temp control was used but not needed. The heat band was set at 20c with the InkBird however the brew fermented at 23c and that temp was held naturally due to the active fermentation. The good thing about using temp control is you can see when activity drops because the temp falls> Ambient temps in SEQ at the moment are around 24c max -14c min.  If you are in a warmer area you may need to use more temp control. 

3) Pressure was set at 15psi and allowed to reach that naturally so no pressure added. It reached 15psi within 24 hours

 

The brew was put into the brew fridge yesterday and is currently cold crashing.  So pitched on Sunday and cold crashed on Thursday.  I will keg it when I get an empty which may be today or tomorrow. 

My son and I had a couple of schooners of the 1917 Reschs Pilsner I recreated. It was kegged on Monday and it was pretty good. That was 9 days grain to glass. Naturally still needs some conditioning but was clean and crisp and very much a lager profile. As with most kegged beers will be at its peak in 3 to 4 weeks.  Oh and the great thing is carbonation is a breeze. A couple of days sitting a serving pressure and all is good.  

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1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Welcome to the Lettucegrove. I have done consecutive lagers using the W34/70 @ 15psi and my method is.

1) Wort chilled to 20c or a tad below and pitched.  The 1st beer I did was with a fresh packet of W34/70 and some old slurry I had that had been sitting in the fridge for maybe a year. The second  was with a slurry harvested that day from the brew that had been kegged while doing the mash. 

2) Temp control was used but not needed. The heat band was set at 20c with the InkBird however the brew fermented at 23c and that temp was held naturally due to the active fermentation. The good thing about using temp control is you can see when activity drops because the temp falls> Ambient temps in SEQ at the moment are around 24c max -14c min.  If you are in a warmer area you may need to use more temp control. 

3) Pressure was set at 15psi and allowed to reach that naturally so no pressure added. It reached 15psi within 24 hours

 

The brew was put into the brew fridge yesterday and is currently cold crashing.  So pitched on Sunday and cold crashed on Thursday.  I will keg it when I get an empty which may be today or tomorrow. 

My son and I had a couple of schooners of the 1917 Reschs Pilsner I recreated. It was kegged on Monday and it was pretty good. That was 9 days grain to glass. Naturally still needs some conditioning but was clean and crisp and very much a lager profile. As with most kegged beers will be at its peak in 3 to 4 weeks.  Oh and the great thing is carbonation is a breeze. A couple of days sitting a serving pressure and all is good.  

Cheers Marty. I am also in SEQ so i'll give this a go at ambient and report back with some tastings, hopefully in a week or so 😉

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Couldn't help myself on a Friday afternoon. A lager that was grain on Sunday and  in the glass on Friday with all natural carbonation. Tastes good. No "green" lager taste at all.  Will let it finish cold crashing and let it condition for a few weeks.  

20200619_170111.jpg

20200619_170309.jpg

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On 6/17/2020 at 2:46 PM, SG114 said:

So I'm on day four now and pressure is starting to drop, from 11psi, it's down around 9.  I reckon this means active fermentation is finished (or at least finishing) but I'll take a reading to confirm.  Might stick my flow control tap on the liquid disconnect to get a sample.

I'll leave it for a few days then cold crash, most likely start crashing on Saturday.  Question for you guys though, do you pressurise during cold crash?  I believe that the colder it gets, the more CO2 it absorbs, possibly leading to negative pressure.  It strikes me as wise to stick the gas on it at 10psi or so while cold crashing.  Is this a good move?  If I do this, how well carbed is it likely to be by the end of cold crash?

Cheers

Steve

So cold crash starting today.  Will stick it on gas at about 10psi and see what happens.

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I don't pressurize during the cold crash as I don't see too much of a drop from existing pressure.  But if you want to pump it up to 15psi and leave may be a good idea.  The one I have crashing now dropped pressure yesterday when I took a schooner out of it and was at 7psi this morning so pumped it back up to 15psi.  Am going to close transfer some gelatin into it today. I want to see how clear I can get it. However I did use about 140g and flaked barley and that may not help. Hopefully i got the balance right. 

 

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Did my first enclosed transfer.

Was surprisingly easy after watching a vid or two on YouTube.

This pressure fermenting is the dogs bollocks

Can't wait to pour myself the first glass. Have it set to 30 PSI but I'll wait a few days first 

IMG20200620101157.jpg

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Howdy all. I’m about to upgrade my FV. I’m thinking either the 27L fermzilla As I like the idea of the bottom collection tub that can also be used for dry hopping or...the fermzilla all rounder, as I think I could fit 2 in my new (old) ferment fridge. Thing is, I’m not overly eager to ferment under pressure but want the ability to do a proper closed transfer......

help me make my mind up. 

Edited by MitchBastard
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I've got a question for the brains trust. I have my lager (hopefully)fermenting in my repurposed 25L keg with a kegland spunding valve attached. I set the pressure relief to 15 PSI. My concern is that pressure is yet to build up substantially. I had the tiniest bit of pressure there last night but today the gauge is back to zero. I put the brew down Sunday with a fresh pack of W 34/70 plus some 6 month old slurry.  Could this potential lack of activity be due to the current cool SEQ temperature? Would it be worth applying co2 to simulate the desired 15PSI? I don't really want to let this brew go to sht through lack of pressure. Another note, my temp control can be available tomorrow so should I just crank it to 20 degrees and then see how the pressure goes? 

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