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Fermenting under pressure


PhilboBaggins
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11 hours ago, Popo said:

Ok pressure guys and girls. I am under-utilising my all rounder. I use it nearly all of the time but only really use it on ales for the oxygen free aspect. I've never pushed the temp or the pressure up that much.

I have a lager ready to go and some Diamond Lager yeast. Anyone used this on a pressure ferment?

I may be wrong but I think it was German lager makers who started the whole fermenting under pressure movement.  Good luck with your brew @Popo

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5 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

I may be wrong but I think it was German lager makers who started the whole fermenting under pressure movement.  Good luck with your brew @Popo

It would make sense - remove a fairly significant cost of keeping large volumes at sub-room temps for weeks while they ferment would be an advantage.

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11 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Popo I use Diamond Lager Yeast all the time, under normal conditions the top of yeast temp range is 15 C.  When pressure fermenting I pitch it at 17 C with temp controller set for 18 C and then pump up the FV immediately to 10 psi (initial start pressure which is very important for a lager).  I have already set my spunding valve to release CO2 at 15 psi (via gas bottle test) and connect it so that when the pressure in FV builds up to 15 psi it just starts to blow off into the jar of sanitiser.  After a few days I up the temp to 22 C but keep psi setting on spunding valve at 15 psi.

I have never used DL yeast at a higher temps or pressures than above and always been very good results.  In fact  this is now my go to lager yeast for pressure fermenting.  Hope my info helps you.

That is pretty much the method I use to, works a treat.   

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I should'a come back to this thread last week. I was doing my first pressure brew and trying to pressure transfer - I'd seen plenty of people talking about having the FV pressure only a few PSI above the recipient keg. 

I could NOT get that sucker to work! Not at any reasonable pace anyway. 

So I stuck the kegmenter back in the fridge and put a picnic tap on and poured a few. Came up very nicely! 

Eventually I wanted the kegmenter back so I set up again and just ran an open line into the keg. It was precharged with CO2 and I was very gentle with it and around it while open so as not to disturb the air too much.

Ran through just fine & even gave a nice 'slurpy' noise in time for me to lift the disconnect & stop the flow.

Then I come and read here and find out that '2 - 3 psi' difference isn't how you're doing it!

So, pressure transfer next time with a decent pressure head!

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Just got into this - on my second brew (got a Keg King Junior and a Fermzilla 30l)

Neither of the brews have required a dry hop. From what I'm reading to dry hop you have to fiddle around with making up a hop sock with a magnet in, held above the wort by an outside magnet and dropping it in. The FVs I have don't have bit at the bottom to put the hops in.

I tend to put in some fiings a cuppla days before kegging/bottling. Anyone tried this ? Maybe put the finings in the keg and transferring it over ?

Cheers !

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3 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Just got into this - on my second brew (got a Keg King Junior and a Fermzilla 30l)

Neither of the brews have required a dry hop. From what I'm reading to dry hop you have to fiddle around with making up a hop sock with a magnet in, held above the wort by an outside magnet and dropping it in. The FVs I have don't have bit at the bottom to put the hops in.

I tend to put in some fiings a cuppla days before kegging/bottling. Anyone tried this ? Maybe put the finings in the keg and transferring it over ?

Cheers !

go commando with dry hopping under pressure 

honestly just unscrew the fv , being carful as well that the lid dont go flying.

there will be enough co2 still in the fv's to worry about oxidization even when fully depressed

chuck them in and watch the magic show and purge what ever oxygen you had in there out

and regass to the origional pressure


I always go commando style

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47 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Just got into this - on my second brew (got a Keg King Junior and a Fermzilla 30l)

Neither of the brews have required a dry hop. From what I'm reading to dry hop you have to fiddle around with making up a hop sock with a magnet in, held above the wort by an outside magnet and dropping it in. The FVs I have don't have bit at the bottom to put the hops in.

I tend to put in some fiings a cuppla days before kegging/bottling. Anyone tried this ? Maybe put the finings in the keg and transferring it over ?

Cheers !

@stquinto , no don't stuff around with hop socks and magnets.  When you are ready to dry hop de-pressurize the FV via the PRV pull ring.  Just undo the gas port ball lock connector and commando your hop pellets via that port.  Don't open the FV lid at all.

I use a little PET coke bottle cut off as a funnel and hold that onto the gas port hole and drop my hop pellets in that way.

Once that is done re-fit gas port ball lock post. and give the FV a damn good swirl / slosh around the CO2 pressure will build up very quickly again then vent any O2 that got in via the falling hop pellets by burping the PRV a couple of brief times.  Make sure the gravity is still a few points off FG and the yeast will scavenge any remaining O2 anyway.

If you want you can pump it back up to say 15 psi via your gas bottle but I don't I just let the yeast do its job here.  Just wasting your gas.

Leave it for a couple of days then give the FV a damn good swirl / slosh around again to male any floating hop pellets sink and the job is done.  During the cold crash the suspended hop pellet matter will sink down on top of the yeast trub so don't disturb it after that when kegging or bottling and you will be fine.  I do it this way all the time with my Fermzilla and it works superbly.

Edited by iBooz2
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1 hour ago, ozdevil said:

go commando with dry hopping under pressure 

 

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

no don't stuff around with hop socks and magnets.  When you are ready to dry hop de-pressurize the FV via the PRV pull ring.  Just undo the gas port ball lock connector and commando your hop pellets via that port.  Don't open the FV lid at all.

cheers fellas - I do that next time I do a recipe that needs dry hopping. I will also do the same to pour in the finings.

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7 hours ago, stquinto said:

 

cheers fellas - I do that next time I do a recipe that needs dry hopping. I will also do the same to pour in the finings.

The way I dry hop is  wait till ferment is virtually over and dry hop in a keg as a secondary.  I use the lids with the loop on the underside. Use a hop cylinder on a chain attached to it.  Put in the hops. Purge then do a closed transfer to it. then leave to finish last bit of ferment. After a couple of days very slowly release the pressure it will take a while so there is no overflow remove the hops then seal, purge and pressurise, works a treat.   I also find every little sediment in the end product so I don't transfer again. 

 

Keg-Lid-with-Dry-Hop-Ring.jpg

Edited by Marty_G
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@ozdevil and @iBooz2, how long are your dry hops in contact with the wort?  

I only dry hop for 3-4 days now because I got grassy flavours with longer contact times.  Having said that, I did the Coopers Australian IPA in a 35L Fermenter King Snub Nose under pressure.  Because I had to dry hop commando style, the dry hops were in the wort for 9 days.  There was some grassiness, but not as much as I have got in the past.

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17 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I only dry hop for 3-4 days

I dry hop for 2 days.  Sometimes it goes over to the 3rd day but never longer.  There is loads of conflicting suggestion but all the scientific stuff I have read seems 48-72 hours is all that is needed.  Who is the hop head here who wrote all the great threads and gave wonderful info about dry hopping times? Pretty sure he said 48 hours was all that was needed.  The old memory is playing up and I can't remember who he was. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

@ozdevil and @iBooz2, how long are your dry hops in contact with the wort?  

I only dry hop for 3-4 days now because I got grassy flavours with longer contact times.  Having said that, I did the Coopers Australian IPA in a 35L Fermenter King Snub Nose under pressure.  Because I had to dry hop commando style, the dry hops were in the wort for 9 days.  There was some grassiness, but not as much as I have got in the past.

i usually dry hop the same 3-4 days  for that reason , i dont think there is anymore benefit  going any longer 


sometimes though depending on the recipe  i might do 2 dry hops   

1 on day 3   or when  fermentaion is just about to finish 
1 on day 7  for 2-3 days before cold crashing


but most of the recipes i do only require 1 dry hop   so basicly  3-4 days

 

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23 hours ago, ozdevil said:

i usually dry hop the same 3-4 days  for that reason , i dont think there is anymore benefit  going any longer 


sometimes though depending on the recipe  i might do 2 dry hops   

1 on day 3   or when  fermentaion is just about to finish 
1 on day 7  for 2-3 days before cold crashing


but most of the recipes i do only require 1 dry hop   so basicly  3-4 days

 

So, I am guessing that when doing a brew with a double dry hop, you are not using a pressure fermenter.  You said in your post on Tuesday night, you go commando with your dry hop in a pressure FV.  And in the comment above, you dry hop for 3-4 days.  You cannot remove the day 3 dry hop around day 7 if you have gone commando.  Hence my assumption.

Now, when going commando in a pressure FV, for contact time of 3-4 days, are you dry hopping pretty much at the start of your cold crash?  Do you also add finings?  And if so what do you use and when in your process?

Sorry for the noob questions, but when it comes to pressure fermenting I am a noob.

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1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sorry for the noob questions, but when it comes to pressure fermenting I am a noob.

I too would like to know because to me commando dry hopping under pressure would have the potential to cause huge problems with blocked dip tubes during closed transfer. 

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It's just one data point but I have done some double dry hopping in my pressure fermenter without any issues. It was a bit shy of 250g. All commando. Most other brews get around 100g and I've never had a problem. No foaming either - though have seen others run into this problem.

I use the little filter on the end of the dip tube and it works really well. 

 

 

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On 1/5/2022 at 8:26 AM, Shamus O'Sean said:

@ozdevil and @iBooz2, how long are your dry hops in contact with the wort?  

I only dry hop for 3-4 days now because I got grassy flavours with longer contact times.  Having said that, I did the Coopers Australian IPA in a 35L Fermenter King Snub Nose under pressure.  Because I had to dry hop commando style, the dry hops were in the wort for 9 days.  There was some grassiness, but not as much as I have got in the past.

Here ya go @Shamus O'Sean , my data on commando dry hopping in a pressure fermenter.

All these were Pacific Summer Ale’s so I guess that now makes me an expert on this beer ha ha.  😁  First column is my actual batch #, second is the FV used, third is points above FG when dry hop done, forth is number of days dry hops were in contact with the beer including the cold crash days up until kegged followed by the (included) number of days of CC for reference.

The amounts of dry hop were initially 25 g but then I soon upped it about the middle of this data table to 30 g which appears to me to be the sweet spot for this beer. 

I did go up to 50 g in the last batch #64 (not included in data) and the flavour was a bit on the sour side and I don’t like it.  Note that the sour-ish batch was not done commando nor in the FZ, it was done in the Coopers FV and via a hop sock which was removed after several days and before cold crash so I am now wondering if the pressure ferment and cold crashing under pressure has a big effect on the commando dry hop.

I think the trick is to dry hop 2 days before FG and give the FV an good shake and swirl.  Then when it hits FG and the cold crash is commenced give it another good shake and swirl as this will make all the floating hop matter sink to the bottom.

I also think that with all the hop matter now compacted at the bottom, during and particularly at the end of the cold crash, the pressure in the fermenter (15 psi at this stage) prevents any grassiness developing in the beer.  That is my theory after doing 15 batches of the same recipe and never experiencing any grassy tastes or aromas.  Hope this info and ideas help you.

Commando Dry Hopping PSA Data.PNG

Edited by iBooz2
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4 hours ago, Marty_G said:

I too would like to know because to me commando dry hopping under pressure would have the potential to cause huge problems with blocked dip tubes during closed transfer. 

Like @Popo , no problems for me over dozens of batches and I do not have a filter cage over the end of my floating dip tube in the Fermzilla.  I do however have a filter cage on the floating dip tube in the big 58 L SS Kegmenter. @Marty_G see above post re the double swirl technique I use to sink the hop matter.  I works really well.

Early on I thought the same and set up a gas line with a beer ball lock (black) dis-connect on it for clearing purposes  What I used to do in order to clear the yeast build up out of the dip tube was: turn off the gas at the bottle but leave 10 psi pressure locked in the gas line making sure other keg gas connectors are disconnected.  Connect the black gas connector to the beer outpost on the PFV and this would just puff out the yeast with its 1/2 second or so burp of CO2.  I used to do this only once during the cold crash a few days before kegging but don't bother anymore.  I just let that little bit of yeast go into the keg on kegging day.

Edited by iBooz2
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8 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Here ya go @Shamus O'Sean , my data on commando dry hopping in a pressure fermenter.

Very interesting.  Not radically dis-similar to my case of 9 days in a PFV, but not much grassiness.

I have a single hop Simcoe Pale Ale going at the moment.  Probably under 18psi.  It is finished fermenting with Kveik yeast.  But no space to cold crash yet.  Maybe CC from Saturday.  I think I will dry hop from the start of cold crash and keep pressure at 15 psi.

Thanks guys.

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On 12/21/2021 at 8:58 PM, Popo said:

Next stop: Lager Town.

Finally got this to happen. But as you do, or as I do, I ran into a couple of problems.

I discovered my inline regulator and my spunding valve do not register the same pressure so I'm not really sure what pressure I have been able to set the fermenter at. Had to have a bit of a guess as I'd already poured the cube in. We'll see...

While packing away and cleaning up, I realised I'd left the cap off the end of the dip tube filter. Was toying with the idea of a dry hop but will most likely give that a miss unless I can be bothered to take it all out and get it back on. Not tonight.

Hopefully a lager soon.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Will leave this here, it explains a method I used to save and transfer fresh slurry from a FV to a new brew so the yeast slurry could be pitched fresh. Those of you who use slurry may want to try it.  If you only have one pressure FV You could still store it in the FV after kegging but maybe take the jug of slurry the day you want to ferment, then clean the FV then pitch into it the new brew. If you know what I mean. 

Got to love pressure fermenting it is deadly. 

 

 

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