Marty_G Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Now that i am AG brewing the son in-law would like me to do some fo him so next brew day i am doing a 35 - 40 litre batch. I will be tageting an OG of around 1050 so that it can be cubed for him in a 15ltr cube and then he can add 5 litres of water to it to bring it to 1040 to make a ~4.0% beer, we both keg. Now my question is: I have read about late hopping in cubes. Can one of the brains trust just tell me what the best way to go about this is. As i want a fairly hop forward beer for him. Basiically brew day will be normal until I finish the boil I will then add a step of decanting 15 ltres into a cube for him then continue on with chilling with the immersion chiller to about 24 filling my fermenter and then pitching. Oh it will be a Australian Pale Ale Style using cascade flowers as my flavouring and Aroma hops and Nuggett flowers for the bittering hop. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) That title should read Cube Hopping Edited January 26, 2020 by MartyG1525230263 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I'm happy with hops in pellet form, cubing them wouldn't add much value. But when I cube hop I just add the hops before filling the cube. You will need to strain the wort when pouring it into the fermenter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hairy said: I'm happy with hops in pellet form, cubing them wouldn't add much value. So basically just dont worry about it. Just do the late additions to the boil and cube when I have finished the hop stand., forgot to mention the hop stand. So the wort will be around 800 when cubed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 It is effectively another hop stand albeit at lower temps. I very rarely cube hop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I am sure you considered this Marty but if you are no chilling, it will add additional bitterness. So your SIL's beer should be slightly more bitter than yours as you will chill yours right after transferring his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Norris! said: I am sure you considered this Marty but if you are no chilling, it will add additional bitterness. So your SIL's beer should be slightly more bitter than yours as you will chill yours right after transferring his. Yep that is right, i will chill the remainder. So what is the best way to do this for him. Miss the last hop stand, just cube it hot at flame out for him, and continue with the hop stand and the rest of my processes for the rest of the wort. I want to give him the best I can but it does not have to be 100% the same as mine. The hop scedule for the Batch is Northern Brewer 50g 60 min for 27 IBU Cascade Flower 30g 15 minutes for 6 IBU and Cascade Flower 50g 20min Hopstand. Was going to use nuggett flowers i have for bittering but decided to use Northern Brewer pellets I have instead. I suppose can give him some Cacade to do a dry hop with. One last thing with the hop flowers is it best to use whole of chop them up. I suppose it doesnt matter in the boil but think it would dry hopping. Edited January 27, 2020 by MartyG1525230263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) I would toss in the 15 minutes addition at flameout or 0 minutes, start to whirlpool, and once the temp gets under 90c I would transfer the wort and have the original flameout addition as a cube hop. That should keep the bitterness kind of in line. Depending on when he will pitch it, if it is a few hours, you could chill his wort also. Edited January 28, 2020 by Norris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Forgot to mention, then after you have transferred to the cube, drop the original recipes remaining flameout hops in to the soon to be chilled wort. That way you still maximise the flavour and aroma and reduce the bitterness and the chilled wort still gets the flameout addition. You can then start to chill as normal. That is just a process I would take with this specific splitting of the wort. @MartyG1525230263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 @Norris! lets see if i have this right. Cut the 15minute additions. Turn that into a FO addition and whirlpool till it is 90. Then transfer to the cube and add the Hopstand addition to the cube. Then add the same weight of hopstand to the wort and whirlpool and chill. So basically there are 2 x the hopstand 1 goes into the cube the other into the remaining wort. That is the way I read it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) @MartyG1525230263Exactly. I know it sounds complicated but it addresses all the hop weights and should increase the aroma while getting past the no chill portion of the wort. But honestly that is only my approach, more than happy to hear other methods. Edited January 28, 2020 by Norris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 Thanks so much @Norris!. It is not complicated at all and i get it. One last question. The casacade hop flowers I will be using as the FO and hopstand should I shred them to increase the surface area in contact with the wort or will the heat extract all the hoppy goodness anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: One last question. The casacade hop flowers I will be using as the FO and hopstand should I shred them to increase the surface area in contact with the wort or will the heat extract all the hoppy goodness anyway. I have never used flowers so I cannot answer that with any experience. But when you think about it, what you said makes sense, but the flowers are really just holding the yellow lupulin powder that has all the aromatics so you might end up leaving behind the good stuff and just getting more of the vegetable matter. I would Google that or wait for someone who has done it or used them, sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Norris! said: I would Google that or wait for someone who has done it or used them, sorry. Yep looks like hop milling is a thing that opens the glands in the hop to get the lupulin exposed. Think i will just give them a bit of a chop up and use for the FO and HS. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, MartyG1525230263 said: Yep looks like hop milling is a thing that opens the glands in the hop to get the lupulin exposed. Think i will just give them a bit of a chop up and use for the FO and HS. Cheers. That is awesome, I never heard of it. I will remember that when I get some flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, Norris! said: That is awesome, I never heard of it. I will remember that when I get some flowers. Well it makes perfect sense seeing that pellets are the hop cones ground into a powder then pressurined into a pellet. So getting hop flowers and chopping them up before using them would not be an issue. Anyway will let you know how I go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 30 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: Yep looks like hop milling is a thing that opens the glands in the hop to get the lupulin exposed. Think i will just give them a bit of a chop up and use for the FO and HS. Cheers. Don't quote me on this as I have no firsthand knowledge or facts & my response is merely an observation... Given the whole hop cone state that encompasses a lot of leaf matter around the lupulin gland & aromatic resin it contains, if you chop or grind this up, you may be releasing more grassy tones from the leaf matter that often create unwanted astringency & notable grassy tones in the final beer. Just my 20 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: Well it makes perfect sense seeing that pellets are the hop cones ground into a powder then pressurined into a pellet. So getting hop flowers and chopping them up before using them would not be an issue. Anyway will let you know how I go. The last time I checked there are different pellet standards available on the market. T-45 & T-90 are those I know of. Quote The “T” in T90 and T45 pellets is an abbreviation for “Type,” and the general designation relates the weight of the pellet to the whole hops coming into the process. One pound of whole cone hops yields about 0.9 pound (0.4 kg) of pellets in the case of T90 pellets, and 0.45 pound (0.2 kg) of pellets in the case of T45 pellets. At first glance it seems that the process used to make T45 pellets is only half as efficient as the T90 process, but when the alpha acid content is evaluated the difference has nothing to do with inefficiency; T45 pellets contain about double the alpha acids from the same cone hops as do T90 pellets. A lot of this is to do with the removal of leaf matter before pelletisation from what I've read. Makes a lot of sense (to me at least). I hope that helps. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Beerlust said: A lot of this is to do with the removal of leaf matter before pelletisation from what I've read. Makes a lot of sense (to me at least). Thanks for all of this. The one thing that is consisent in all that I have read is that it is best to use whole hops for flavour and aroma and not bittering. This is due to the alpha acid % of pellets being accuracte where this is not the case with whole hops which are highly variable. That is the very reason I changed the bittering hops for the brew planned for friday from Nugget whole hops to the Northern Brew Pellets I have on hand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Hey @MartyG1525230263 The photo below is of my own hops. De-hydrated, then broken up, vacuum sealed, and frozen. The petals mostly separated from the internal stem/spine of the flowers. The petals pretty much stayed intact. Being broken up they also take up less volume which is better for packing. I have used mine in a short hop boil (15minutes) and for dry hopping. How have yours come? Individual cones? Dried or "wet"? If they are dry they should easily break-up in your fingers, but not disintegrate into powder. You should see the yellow lupulin. It is like a yellow powder, like a form of pollen. If yours are dry they will be pretty fragile. Even if you drop them in the boil, they will probably be broken up a fair bit by the boiling action. As a dry hop, this will be negligible because of the lack of movement. My suggestions (if they are whole hop cones): Commando in the boil; all good In a hop sock in the boil should also be fine. The water will penetrate and extract the bitterness. Commando dry hop; all good extraction-wise. Although they will take up a large volume and may make bottling difficult. Dry hopping in hop sock or similar, I would break them up, just to better free up the lupulin. If they are already broken up, like mine, then I think any of the above methods will be fine. If they are wet (undried and green) you should use them asap. They break down quickly. Breweries will use wet hops sometimes within 24 hours of them being picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said: My suggestions (if they are whole hop cones): Commando in the boil; all good In a hop sock in the boil should also be fine. The water will penetrate and extract the bitterness. Commando dry hop; all good extraction-wise. Although they will take up a large volume and may make bottling difficult. Dry hopping in hop sock or similar, I would break them up, just to better free up the lupulin. If they are already broken up, like mine, then I think any of the above methods will be fine. Big thanks Seamus, mine a dried and vacuum packed. I have about 300g cascade, and 150g each of nugget and Victoria (not vic secret). I have been doing further reading and it is recommend that they are put in commando as they do better floating around in the boil. So my plan is to use the pellets in the large hop sock I have made and the Cascade whole hops. I plan to chop into 1/4's and they are going in commando. Mind you that may change several time between now and brew day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 23 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said: I plan to chop into 1/4's and they are going in commando. If they are like mine, you should find that when you open the vacuum pack and start to touch the hop cones they should break apart easily. You should not need to chop them. However, if they are still intact and do not break apart, you might have to. If they do not break apart though I would be a bit worried because it might mean they were not dried enough before they were packed. Residual moisture could be a source for spoiling. Give them a good sniff. You should smell if there are any issues with them. I recently did a dry hop with my two-years-in-the-freezer Cascade and they smelled just like new hops when I opened the vac packs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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