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Next Brew Plans - Opinions?


Journeyman

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I have some ingredients waiting for FV space and am not far off freeing that up in the fridge.

I had a look through what I have and I'm wondering how this would turn out. Note the brown sugar is because, although I know it should ferment 100%, it has a flavour in the beer and the only 2 beers I have made the missus doesn't like had no brown sugar. Might be random but this extra brew is partly for her.

Golden Promise grain is like Maris Otter - called the Scottish Maris.

IBU is right at the bottom end but then this isn't really an American IPA is it?

I have more crystal (another 0.4 kg) and another 500 gm Golden Promise.

Is it too much of 'this and that' to be a decent beer? Should I stick with EITHER crystal or GP?

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7 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Only thing I'd probably do is increase the IBUs to match the OG, and maybe drop the crystal since amber extract already has some in it. 

I agree with this.

I find Golden Promise quite different to Maris Otter but at 500g it won't have a big impact on the beer anyway.

Your recipe at present looks more like a stronger American Pale Ale than an American IPA. It will be a drinkable beer though regardless.

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9 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Only thing I'd probably do is increase the IBUs to match the OG, and maybe drop the crystal since amber extract already has some in it. 

OK, will do that. 

1 hour ago, Hairy said:

I agree with this.

I find Golden Promise quite different to Maris Otter but at 500g it won't have a big impact on the beer anyway.

Your recipe at present looks more like a stronger American Pale Ale than an American IPA. It will be a drinkable beer though regardless.

What effect might doubling the GP have? Stronger flavour but what kind? The descriptions of GP both talk about 'sweet & clean' - Mind you they also equate MO and GP as essentially the same, which is what led me to the GP for things like "more malt character and a more rounded flavor are desired"

Will the extra GP also promote a better head and retention? Otto (I think) mentioned in another thread to add more malt as an alternative to adding maltodextrine.

I'm still trying to get my head around how to work out what style of beer I am making. Currently what I do is set up a possible recipe then change the style choice in the SS until I find one where the characteristics are all green. 😄 

 

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12 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

 

I'm still trying to get my head around how to work out what style of beer I am making. Currently what I do is set up a possible recipe then change the style choice in the SS until I find one where the characteristics are all green. 😄 

 

I do the opposite, pick a style then build a recipe that fits into it. The numbers don't always fit totally but it's a good way to learn about how to construct recipes in different styles. Or at least get a good start, then begin tinkering with it. 

I did that with most beers I brew. When I brew pilsners I use that style guide but often go outside the guidelines a bit because that suits my taste better. The beer is still built on the style though rather than the other way around.

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58 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I do the opposite, pick a style then build a recipe that fits into it.

Same, not all my figures fit because i brew below 4% but the base grains, IBUs and EBUs do. Not too sure about the Hops used but i do some research 1st and pick hops that i have seen in some recipes. Like my next brew with be an Australian Pale Ale and the hops will be Nugget bittered and Cascade flavoured and the IBU and EBU will be to style.  

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If I misunderstand incorrectly, doing a partial mash with speciality grains needs some base malted grains as well to provide the enzymes to work on the speciality grains. While I am not anywhere near bracing for AG, I'm looking to learn and to start making minor changes to see the effects and work out what I do and don't like.

So I'm planning to start with a basic Coopers can, hops according to style of beer, and adding grains either steeped (like the recent light crystal) or partial mash. I figure mostly I'm interested in adding specific flavours from the speciality grains according to style so I thought a fairly bland base grain would stay out of the way, so to speak. I found this on beerbelly - does it sound like what I am talking about?

"Gladfield’s American Ale Malt is perfect for brewers who have found that our regular Ale Malt adds too much of a malty, toasted flavour profile to certain beer styles.This base malt has been made from plump low protein Autumn 2-row barley varieties and then subjected to our traditional long cool germination period. The grains are then kilned using a special recipe that imparts a typical Ale colour for a cleaner, less toasted flavour. The American Ale Malt offers the brewer scope for innovation and the ability to create beers that are full of character and sophistication."
 

Maltster Gladfield
°EBC 4.75°EBC
Lovibond (L) 2.4°L
Country of Origin New Zealand

Or should I go for the more standard Ale Malt they mention?

That's this one...

Our Ale Malt is grown from plump low protein Autumn 2-row barley varieties and is one of our most popular base malts. Ale Malt is highly friable but the soluble nitrogen ratios are kept relatively low to enhance mouth feel and head retention when brewed. This Malt has been fully modified through a traditional long cool germination resulting in higher extract potential. This type of modification helps eliminate haze issues in the beer.
 

Maltster Gladfield
°EBC 6°EBC
Lovibond (L) 12 °L
Country of Origin New Zealand

To me they don't seem very different  apart from colour, but the "too much of a malty, toasted flavour" makes me wonder.

 

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Next are complications like hot break and cold break. 

I kinda planned to do the mash in my sous vide pot for the excellent temp control - problem is it is rectangular which might mean my other thought, about creating a whirlpool when I see the clumping going on may not be that successful.

Could I do the following... Mash in the sous vide until done and stir gently to hopefully bring the detritus into the centre, then carefully pour the liquid into a pot sitting in the sink in chilled water, then rinse the residue in the sous vide as a kind of sparging and add that to the chiller pot.  Then carefully pour the cooled wort into the FV and follow my usual brew process with the can etc?

Or should I forget mash until I can afford the equipment?

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I used to do mini mashes in my Kmart 19litre stock pot. Used to put the grains in a large paint strainer bag you get from Bunnings for a few bucks. 
Any two row base malt will do. I use Barrett burstons. Then you can add some speciality malts depending on your recipe. 
I never had any hot or cold break issues when doing mini mashes. I just put my strainer over the top of the fermenter and tip the pot in. 

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44 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

If I misunderstand incorrectly, doing a partial mash with speciality grains needs some base malted grains as well to provide the enzymes to work on the speciality grains. While I am not anywhere near bracing for AG, I'm looking to learn and to start making minor changes to see the effects and work out what I do and don't like.

So I'm planning to start with a basic Coopers can, hops according to style of beer, and adding grains either steeped (like the recent light crystal) or partial mash. I figure mostly I'm interested in adding specific flavours from the speciality grains according to style so I thought a fairly bland base grain would stay out of the way, so to speak. I found this on beerbelly - does it sound like what I am talking about?

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

If you are only using special grains and no other fermentables, such as base malt or extract, the mash will only extract the colour and flavour from the specialty malts it won't make it fermentable or get the enzymes working, you are correct in that. But when using extract we generally only want the colour and flavour anyways, as we are getting all our fermentables from the extract.

You are correct for the 2nd paragraph. That is a good method to follow.

It sounds like you have gone all in all the brewing, well done Mate. It is so much cheaper than buying slabs from the store and generally better. The prohibitive start up costs for all grain makes it hard to switch over but the brews get cheaper still at that point. For example a 25kg bag of Barrett Burston Pale Ale Malt costs me $45 and will generate 5 1.050 brews by itself, so $9 a brew for the fermentables. Hops are whatever you toss in for bitterness, aroma and flavour but if you said $18 for hops, that would be, for me, about 200g or more and yeast could be anywhere from $1 - 14 but generally, because I reuse around $2 - 4 a batch, that works out to be around ~$30 for a really hoppy beer, at 23l or 4 12 packs and a 6 pack. That is hard to beat when they sell 4 brew for $24, for like Balter XPA.

With that said, that is deeper down the rabbit hole, for now enjoy the good brews with extract. The difference is slight and most people will never notice. You are following a great learning path and should translate to some nice brews.

Good luck and good brewing

Norris

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37 minutes ago, PaddyBrew2 said:

I used to do mini mashes in my Kmart 19litre stock pot. Used to put the grains in a large paint strainer bag you get from Bunnings for a few bucks. 
Any two row base malt will do. I use Barrett burstons. Then you can add some speciality malts depending on your recipe. 
I never had any hot or cold break issues when doing mini mashes. I just put my strainer over the top of the fermenter and tip the pot in. 

A hop sock bag should work, right? I have a couple I use for dry hops and they are like a fine mesh cheesecloth - think hippy girl's top. If I use that for the grain and the 2nd one for adding hops I shouldn't get too much sediment and not have to worry about breaks. Just do the boil for 40 mins and add hops as per timing for bittering, flavour and aroma.

If I am understanding what I am reading, there will be proteins from both the base grain and the speciality grain - should I start a mash at 55° for say 30 mins as a 'protein rest' to give the enzymes time to work on the proteins and then raise the temp to 70° for 40 mins? I asked about protein rest in another thread and it seems not really to be a thing with modern malts but I thought maybe because I'm using only a kg of base malt and perhaps 300 - 400 gms speciality it might help maximise extraction.

23 minutes ago, Norris! said:

If you are only using special grains and no other fermentables, such as base malt or extract, the mash will only extract the colour and flavour from the specialty malts it won't make it fermentable or get the enzymes working, you are correct in that. But when using extract we generally only want the colour and flavour anyways, as we are getting all our fermentables from the extract.

You are correct for the 2nd paragraph. That is a good method to follow.

It sounds like you have gone all in all the brewing, well done Mate. It is so much cheaper than buying slabs from the store and generally better. The prohibitive start up costs for all grain makes it hard to switch over but the brews get cheaper still at that point. For example a 25kg bag of Barrett Burston Pale Ale Malt costs me $45 and will generate 5 1.050 brews by itself, so $9 a brew for the fermentables. Hops are whatever you toss in for bitterness, aroma and flavour but if you said $18 for hops, that would be, for me, about 200g or more and yeast could be anywhere from $1 - 14 but generally, because I reuse around $2 - 4 a batch, that works out to be around ~$30 for a really hoppy beer, at 23l or 4 12 packs and a 6 pack. That is hard to beat when they sell 4 brew for $24, for like Balter XPA.

 

Well I am certainly enjoying the brews. Problem is, the missus, who has always hated beer, now wants to drink my HB - negotiation on costs proceeds... 😄 

I understand about he lowered costs but the start up is currently beyond my reach.  My plan is to save up with the savings from NOT buying commercial beer and keep HB stock ticking over while I watch the 2nd hand sites for a good deal on gear for AG.

My first mash is my next brew. I've got a kg of Godlen Promise I bought to try out - supposed to be very like Maris Otter. This one, maybe with some brown sugar added - all the beers SWMBO has really liked have had brown sugar in them - I know it is supposed to all ferment but there's a trace of flavour left she seems to like.

Then again, maybe I can just prime with it. 😄 

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7 minutes ago, PaddyBrew2 said:

I used to heat the water to 66 degrees. Put in your grain bag. Put the lid on and wrap it in towels and leave for an hour.  Mash done.  Then sparge the grain bag until water runs clear and then start the boil with the hops additions etc 

Coolth! Although with the sous vide I can literally set the temp and it keeps it exactly there. (within 0.1°) so I can leave out the towels part. 😄

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Perfect. Don’t over think mini mashes. They are pretty simple. Protein rests and hot breaks don’t come into the equation until you go to all grain. I’m doing AG seven months now and I’ve never done a protein rest and a hot break to me is a trip to Bali.  And I’m making the best beer of me life right now. 
Fair play to you for reading up on it but it’s easy to get overawed by the amount of information and science. Keep it simple 😀

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Maybe this should be it's own thread, but...

Is there a way to use the IanH spreadsheet to add in a partial mash? In the Grains/Adj section it is only speciality grains listed and I'm wanting to mash (say) 1 kg of Ale Malt to add to a can recipe.

There's the section in bottom middle under "Steep and Sparge Grains and bring Boil volume up to / Boil volume for Hops" where it says "Weight of Malt in Grams to add to bring BG up to 1.040" but then it talks LME and DME. Is there a calc somewhere I need to do to work out the equivalent in grains/water to get those figures?

Is BG 'Boil Gravity'? Or something else?

 

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