Lawns and Gardens

[Worts and all]

1 hour ago, MUZZY said:

I was going to wipe it out with toilet paper but, alas, no paper.

My record shop man tells me Lou Rawls CDs are flying off the shelf at the moment.

[Beer Baron]

3 hours ago, MUZZY said:

I was going to wipe it out with toilet paper but, alas, no paper.

No toilet paper where I live so I went to my local sports store and got a heap of Manly jerseys. Cheap as and plenty in stock

[Red devil 44]

21 minutes ago, Beer Baron said:

No toilet paper where I live so I went to my local sports store and got a heap of Manly jerseys. Cheap as and plenty in stock

It’s About the only thing they are good for

[Beer Baron]

I fed the lawn before we had some good rain last week and then went away. I came home to it looking pretty good and I ended up mowing within 20 minutes of getting home. I still need to do some garden edging and I’m buying blocks each pay until I have enough to do it in 1 go. 

[Beer Baron]

Before I went to work today I spent about 1.5 hours on my hands and knees digging weeds out of my front garden. The idiot next door has just done his annual mow and all his $hit keeps spreading onto my yard. 

[Pezzza]

14 minutes ago, Beer Baron said:

Before I went to work today I spent about 1.5 hours on my hands and knees digging weeds out of my front garden. The idiot next door has just done his annual mow and all his $hit keeps spreading onto my yard. 

Just be happy it's raining mate

[Beer Baron]

Another one dying........F(&k me!!!

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

To kill murraya there has to be some nasty shit in that ground mate. Or its not draining at all. You dont have a water leak at the meter?

[Beer Baron]

3 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

To kill murraya there has to be some nasty shit in that ground mate. Or its not draining at all. You dont have a water leak at the meter?

Definitely no leak

[Pezzza]

20 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

To kill murraya there has to be some nasty shit in that ground mate. Or its not draining at all. You dont have a water leak at the meter?

Hey Greeny - Think this is root rot or Phytophthera mate... think so....  wrote a great old thesis on this over on the wotchagrowing thread... 28 March... cannot work out how to do a link across to it - anyway... Phytophthera is everywhere and does better in wet conditions... which is what we are having now after years of drought.

Hey BB1 mate I am suspecting that you have just got into wetter times and that the medium you are growing in is just hosting a fungus (actually an oomycete but not material for this discussion - similar to a fungus) which is attacking the roots of the plants... means that the roots cannot supply moisture to the growing upper plant... goes yellow and dies...

I think this may be Phytophthera cinnamomi (Pc)...

Phytophthora cinnamomi  is a soil-borne water mould that produces an infection which causes a condition in plants called "root rot" or "dieback". The plant pathogen is one of the world's most invasive species and is present in over 70 countries around the world. 

 

Sadly I think there is not a lot to be done (more on my 28 March Post) but I think trying to find something that is hardy/resistant to the evil organism... which would not be fired up during the years of drought but get on the move in the wet times...

There is a good SA publication on it:

Phytophthora_mgt_guidelines_2006.pdf

I may be wrong on my possible diagnosis and would be happy to be corrected...

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

From what i have been told and seen from my eyes with my plants they are basically indestructible. With the lack of rain in sydney from oct to dec i didn't water them other than throwing some fish tank water over them every 3 weeks. Full sun all day and they just sucked it up. Finally rained and they went nuts. I was told dont over water so that was my only thought with the water pipe there. Other than that im at a loss.

[The Captain!!]

I’m at a loss to these too mate. That’s out of control. I thought they were indestructible 

[Pezzza]

39 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

I was told dont over water

... that may be both impact of waterlogging or the dreaded evil root rot...  when people are saying don't over water Greeny.

 

Who knows exactly what is going on - but it is pretty sad to see a really nice row of plants go down like that whatever is knocking them down.

Just with this nasty root rot if it has got one or two and things are moist enough it could knock the whole lot out sadly.

Unfortunately with these nursery type plants they all could be clones e.g. cuttings off same parent plants and hence all be susceptible to the same disease.

 

I'd be very happy to be wrong on this.  

[Maurice79]

 

On 2/29/2020 at 9:32 PM, MUZZY said:

Are you in Tassie?

Adelaide Hills. 

[Malter White]

6 minutes ago, Maurice79 said:

 

Adelaide Hills. 

Ah, not far from me in Newton. Gee, your garden is bloody green for an Adelaide garden. 
You mentioned cooler summers, that's why I asked if you're in Tassie.

[Thirsty Jim]

4 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

I think this may be Phytophthera cinnamomi (Pc)...

Phytophthora cinnamomi  is a soil-borne water mould that produces an infection which causes a condition in plants called "root rot" or "dieback". The plant pathogen is one of the world's most invasive species and is present in over 70 countries around the world. 

I have been thinking about this and it seems Beer Baron is telling us that 
(a)    only his Murrayas are dying back
(b)    in various locations in his yard
(c)    that they were all purchased at the same time from the same vendor and planted by BB

If so it seems likely that if it is a pathogen then it was most likely imported to BB's garden with the Murrayas, suggesting that the problem may have originated with the soil from the nursery from where they purchased (or rather grown).  I wonder if they were on special at a big warehouse ...

If the Burbler is correct and it is cinnamon rot then get those plants and the soil they were planted with out of there before it fouls your whole property.  The pathogen is water transportable so it may have seemed dormant during drought but after rain it will likely be on the move.  Burn the plants and tip the soil (responsibily).  But get it  and the soil they were planted with out of there.  

I have read that some treat the ground by solarization (covering with clear plastic and letting the ground cook in the sunlight).  This is unsightly  but it works although it is likely to kill everything else too leaving the dirt without any biology - but that's better than the cinnamon mold.  However to work fully the soil needs to solarized after it is dug out of the ground for the mold many survive solarization if embedded deep enough.
 

[Pezzza]

10 hours ago, James of Bayswater said:

If the Burbler is correct and it is cinnamon rot

 

I am hoping I am wrong JoB...

 

But the Baron's plants during drought all ok vs the wet now troubles and more than one plant going down... does not bode well I fear.

Chlorosis - wilting - roots being attacked and normal transpiration badly affected.

And could have come in with the plants or any mulching material or soil augmentation undertaken.

My take on this was maybe better to go with it - and find some native plants that may be resistant - and maybe not all the same (not all same eggs in one basket) - might be a better strategy.

Had a look specifically for Murraya paniculata and Phytophthora... the below unfortunately is not much help... (Even though quite interesting -- HLB is a citrus disease)

Murraya paniculata and Related Species as Potential Hosts and Inoculum Reservoirs of ‘Candidatus Liberibacter asiaticus’, Causal Agent of Huanglongbing
V. D. Damsteegt, E. N. Postnikova, and A. L. Stone, Foreign Disease-Weed Science Research Unit, ARS, USDA.

 

And in Australia Pc is famous for its negative effects on Jarrah Forests in WA - search for Jarrah dieback - A disease caused by Phytophthora cinnamomi.

 

The below might be more useful but is a yankee publication - one like this for Aussie conditions would be good... but you can see what they are getting at - and maybe there are some plants within that list that might be useful... and I would start with small numbers to trial whether they survive.

Suggested Plant Species for Sites with a History of Phytophthora Root or Crown Rot

Phytophthora is one genus within the group of “fungus-like” organisms known as oomycetes.  Phytophthora species are capable of infecting a wide range of trees, shrubs, and bedding plants. Most plant-pathogenic species of Phytophthora cause root and crown rots and are able to persist for numerous years in soil.

http://www.agpath.com.au/Portals/0/Useful info/Exotics resistant or tolerant to phytophthora spp .pdf

Exotics resistant or tolerant to phytophthora spp .pdf

 

Also the below - aussie article on hedges... with excerpt cut out on Pc.

https://www.screenhedgeplants.com.au/articles/hedge-pests-diseases/

Phytophthora root rot

Phytophthora and other root rot fungus (-like organisms) can attack hedges. While most hedge plants are not highly susceptible to root rot, in unfavourable conditions it can be a significant problem. Poor drainage is the major cause. Root rot can be hard to diagnose. Failure to thrive, dying off especially at the tips and wilting when there is sufficient soil moisture can all be symptoms, especially if they occur after localised flooding or particularly heavy rainfall periods. A fungicide applied to the soil may help if damage is not severe and drainage problems are able to be corrected. The problem can be avoided by ensuring the soil has plenty of organic matter incorporated prior to planting and is able to drain adequately. English box and conifers will be highly susceptible to poor drainage as will westringias if planted in depressions.

 

I would not advocate pouring fungicide onto the soil as you could do it 'till the cows come home' and still not get rid of the pathogen and in the meantime cause yourself significant expense and destroy your soil biota and everything downstream as well.... and as I noted earlier - the drainage would have to be corrected anyway... and as the above says: Most plant-pathogenic species of Phytophthora are able to persist for numerous years in soil.  It would be better to try @James of Bayswater James' solarization if wanting to try kill it... but suspect it would come back not long thereafter and now going into a rainy winter whether that control measure would be effective?

Seems like complete removal of plant hosts for a while may be a successful control measure -- see below web posting -- but how would you get rid of all living plant roots in the area easily and how long do you have to leave the soil profile with nil live roots?

Professor Hardy says the successful eradication trials are very good news for Australian ecosystems affected by dieback."The pathogen has to have living hosts. You remove any living host, whether it is a resistant host or a susceptible host, for a period of time, it will die..."  https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2014-07-21/dieback-breakthrough/5607262

If it is Pc or Cinnamon Mould it's no easy fix sadly.

But here is a ray of garden sunlight in the Pc darkness... there may be something you can find in this useful WA Brochure:CPSM_resistanceBrochures.pdf

If the PDF does not load here is the website:

https://www.cpsm-phytophthora.org/downloads/CPSM_resistanceBrochures.pdf

That might do me on Pc for a while.  Note the above inf was completed in chronological order... only found the festive WA Brochure last. Cheers Growers. BB

 

 

 

[Beer Baron]

I ripped out an old dead plant today and dug out everything around the roots. Down deep there was plenty of clay and sandstone type rocks and it was very wet. I have had about 20mm of rain in the last 3 days though. 

[Beer Baron]

Here is the hole this morning. There is about 6 inches of water in there and we haven’t had rain in over 24 hours

[Red devil 44]

50 minutes ago, Beer Baron said:

Here is the hole this morning. There is about 6 inches of water in there and we haven’t had rain in over 24 hours

Maybe you had a slash in there after a big session on the home brew

[The Captain!!]

Least you found the issue

[Otto Von Blotto]

Just gotta fix it now ...

[Pezzza]

Hey @Beer Baron Baron, yeah I mentioned waterlogging in a few of my posts.... even  if the metered town-water is not leaking... you could still have waterlogging due to the heavy clay subsoil horizon preventing deep drainaige?   ...and besides - that blooooody mould loves wet conditions as well.  Also could be a leak in your town-water line prior to your meter maybe?  e.g. the incoming line.  Anyway - come what may - wet feet are no good for most plants other than mangroves and Murray River Redgums as mentioned a little while ago.

Hopefully it is just a waterlogging issue and you don't have the Pc mould after all - that would be good.  If it's not a pipe leak... you might need to install ag-pipe which hopefully can drain somewhere via gravity feed.  You seem convinced it is not your town-water leaking... which you can check... then it maybe possibly worthwhile asking the council or water utility if they are aware of any water loss they can detect in your zone or at least show them the presence of the water if it does not drain over the next while?

Anyway - as Kelsey and Captain note - you have found something to work on which is good...

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I did a mini renovation on the back lawn about three weeks ago. This consisted of obviously mowing it, then aerating it with a hollow tine thing, it took a couple of hours. After that threw down some fertiliser and top dressed it, with USGA approved sand of course then just kept up the water, gave it a week and a half or so before mowing it, since then just mowing every few days. It's made a big difference already. I don't have a before photo but I have a few from top dressing through to now. 

First is on the day, second a week later, third after its first mow and last from after mowing it just now. It still has a bit to go of course, the sandy area near the little fence was a low section that I just filled with the sand, it's slowly growing over with a number of shoots poking up through it as well. Shouldn't be more than another month before it covers completely. I need to snip the edges but it's not a priority in the wet weather today, just took an opportunity while it temporarily stopped raining to mow it

[Red devil 44]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I did a mini renovation on the back lawn about three weeks ago. This consisted of obviously mowing it, then aerating it with a hollow tine thing, it took a couple of hours. After that threw down some fertiliser and top dressed it, with USGA approved sand of course then just kept up the water, gave it a week and a half or so before mowing it, since then just mowing every few days. It's made a big difference already. I don't have a before photo but I have a few from top dressing through to now. 

First is on the day, second a week later, third after its first mow and last from after mowing it just now. It still has a bit to go of course, the sandy area near the little fence was a low section that I just filled with the sand, it's slowly growing over with a number of shoots poking up through it as well. Shouldn't be more than another month before it covers completely. I need to snip the edges but it's not a priority in the wet weather today, just took an opportunity while it temporarily stopped raining to mow it

Where’s the hole for the flag ?