Getting serious about Brews

[Journeyman]

I had the bright idea of putting the temp controller in a plastic box and wiring up a double power point to one side to plug in fridge and heater. Bought the power point, cut the holes and then discovered the unit has only a single wiring contacts set up. The switching is done inside the switch itself.

Not only is that no good for me, it also seems odd - plug 2 appliances into the sockets that draw more than 10 amp combined and you'll keep triggering the safety switches out in the fuse box.

So back to Bunnings and NONE of the power points have dual cable setups.

So it's 2 x extension cable sockets - not the pretty set up I had planned... le sigh...

[Marty_G]

42 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I had the bright idea of putting the temp controller in a plastic box and wiring up a double power point to one side to plug in fridge and heater.

What sort of controller do you have? InkBirds have two points on them one for heat and one for cold so both are plugged into the InkBird and then the InkBird is plugged the mains as it is the InkBird that control away from the thermostat ... 

[BlackSands]

6 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

What sort of controller do you have? InkBirds have two points on them one for heat and one for cold so both are plugged into the InkBird and then the InkBird is plugged the mains as it is the InkBird that control away from the thermostat ... 

I'm curious too...  what @Journeyman describes sounds quite odd -  particularly "...the unit has only a single wiring contacts set up. The switching is done inside the switch itself."   

[Journeyman]

8 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

What sort of controller do you have? InkBirds have two points on them one for heat and one for cold so both are plugged into the InkBird and then the InkBird is plugged the mains as it is the InkBird that control away from the thermostat ... 

The unit is identical to the ITC-1000 from Inkbird. What I wanted was to have the heat & cold out to a socket so I could change units for heat or cold easily. e.g. my heating will be aquarium heater dangling in the brew, but that goes into the  FV via a hole in top plugged with a silicon bung, with a hole drilled through it for the wire. Removing that for use in another FV means taking apart the 240V plug so I can pull the wire out.

But I have 3 aquarium heaters so I will be putting another heater in the lid of another FV.  So it would be useful to simply be able to plug in the 2nd heater without having to open the controller box and remove/replace wires.

 

re: ""...the unit has only a single wiring contacts set up. The switching is done inside the switch itself." "

I know, right? On the back of the dual plug panel there are 3 only wiring points. (A, N & E) Inside a casing the wires run out to the sides to the 2 plug points. Which means BOTH plugs are taking current from a single cable going into the switch, which means the temp controller cannot distinguish between the 2.

Wander down to B's and take a look at the rear of any of the dual plug switches. 

They did suggest a local electrical supplier for possible switch to do what I needed but I just bought the 2 x ext lead sockets to dangle out of the box.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I would be choosing a heating setup that doesn't require immersion in the brew itself, it's just another avenue to potential infection. Plus at this time of year you won't even need it unless you're in Antarctica or something.

Your description of it is how they're all wired, a single wire that comes from the mains, splitting to the two separate plugs for the heating and cooling appliances. These controllers only ever use one appliance at a time, so it would be running either the fridge or the heater, not both simultaneously. It won't trip the circuit breaker.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[Marty_G]

@Journeyman that just sounds way too convoluted to me and I don't quite understand what you are trying to do.  I would have spent the extra $20 to get the 308.  

[Journeyman]

42 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I would be choosing a heating setup that doesn't require immersion in the brew itself, it's just another avenue to potential infection. Plus at this time of year you won't even need it unless you're in Antarctica or something.

Your description of it is how they're all wired, a single wire that comes from the mains, splitting to the two separate plugs for the heating and cooling appliances. These controllers only ever use one appliance at a time, so it would be running either the fridge or the heater, not both simultaneously. It won't trip the circuit breaker.

I'm not worried about the breakers,that was just a point about the oddness of the design. e.g. I have an electric jug and my coffee machine plugged into a powerboard on the side of my coffee cupboard. Both draw 10 amps. If I try to run both the surge protector on the board pops & I have to reset it.

The point is though, the controller has no way to differentiate where the 2 devices are - if it triggers 'turn on fridge' both devices get powered.

@Marty 1525229005 - "that just sounds way too convoluted to me and I don't quite understand what you are trying to do.  I would have spent the extra $20 to get the 308.  "

When I have it completed I'll post a pic. Price difference was $12 versus $59 for the 308.   If you would care to make a donation I would gladly buy an Inkbird 308.  In the meantime my Carer payments mean as cheap as possible and that extra $47 is a whole other brew.

[BlackSands]

56 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

re: ""...the unit has only a single wiring contacts set up. The switching is done inside the switch itself." "

I know, right? On the back of the dual plug panel there are 3 only wiring points. (A, N & E) Inside a casing the wires run out to the sides to the 2 plug points. Which means BOTH plugs are taking current from a single cable going into the switch, which means the temp controller cannot distinguish between the 2.

Wander down to B's and take a look at the rear of any of the dual plug switches. 

They did suggest a local electrical supplier for possible switch to do what I needed but I just bought the 2 x ext lead sockets to dangle out of the box.

Ahhh... I think I've finally figured out what you're getting at.   You want a dual power point that has INDEPENDENT connections but as you have discovered no such thing exists.  You'd have to use two single outlets.  I know you can get singles that are narrower than standard... maybe two of those would have done the job? 

 The MangroveJacks controller actually has two outlets built into the housing but yeah, otherwise dangling leads is the only other option really which is what the Inkbird 308 has anyway. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by BlackSands

[BlackSands]

In fact a couple of these would have done the trick! 

[Journeyman]

3 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Ahhh... I think I've finally figured out what you're getting at.   You want a dual power point that has INDEPENDENT connections but as you have discovered no such thing exists.  You'd have to use two single outlets. 
 The MangroveJacks controller actually has two outlets built into the housing but yeah, otherwise dangling leads is the only other option really which is what the Inkbird 308 has anyway. 

Yaaay! I was looking at my keyboard wondering if it was typing in English.    

Yeah re the 308 - but at least both sockets are in the same block - wouldn't be too hard to fix it to a wall or cupboard. Eventually i will either save enough on home brew or maybe fix a PC or phone and be able to buy a decent controller, but for now I have to use what I can afford.

I'm sure I saw a controller (that I also can't afford) in my searching that has controller and 2 x plugs in one unit.

 

[Journeyman]

1 minute ago, BlackSands said:

In fact a couple of these would have done the trick! 

Where did you find that? I might have had to change the box I'm using for a larger one but that could have worked well.

 

[BlackSands]

1 minute ago, Journeyman said:

Where did you find that? I might have had to change the box I'm using for a larger one but that could have worked well.

 

http://internationalconfig.com/  

Not sure if you can source locally?   Also...look for a reseller of Clipsal products  - WAY back when I did electrical work and used to build custom scientific instrumentation I seem to recall that they had an extensive range of products like this.  Even though it was a long time ago I know we used these panel mount sockets often.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It shouldn't be turning both on. I have an STC-1000 on my original brew fridge, and it only ever runs one at a time. There's a light on each, and it powers one or the other, although I never have anything in the heating socket as I don't need it. I think the ITC is basically the same unit. 

[BlackSands]

6 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

It shouldn't be turning both on. I have an STC-1000 on my original brew fridge, and it only ever runs one at a time. There's a light on each, and it powers one or the other, although I never have anything in the heating socket as I don't need it. I think the ITC is basically the same unit. 

I think what he was getting at was that if using a dual power socket there's only one connection to it, powering both the switched outlets simultaneously.   So, for example if he connected the dual power point to the 'heat' output on the ITC-1000 then both sockets on the panel would be powered on at the same time during the heat cycle.  That's why I've suggested to use two single power points so they can be wired independently  - one to 'heat' and the other wired to 'cool'. 

It was a bit confusing!    

Edited November 8, 2019 by BlackSands

[Marty_G]

20 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Price difference was $12 versus $59 for the 308. 

As with so many things may end up false economy but I get the drift. 

[BlackSands]

As an aside from this discussion, STC-1000's sourced from China were banned from resale in NZ.  Issues with RFI which was apparently an aviation hazard!  I ended up giving the ones we had left in stock away.  To sell would have meant a $2000 fine.  

[BlackSands]

7 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

As with so many things may end up false economy but I get the drift. 

I suspect in the end it will be.  The controller was $12, then you need a housing for it and the necessary power sockets and/or socketed leads etc.  And then some time building and assembling.  It might not cost $59 but it wouldn't be far off.   But hey,  DIY is educational and fun! 

[Journeyman]

RFI = Radio Freq Interference? Cos my other guess has to do with a repetitive injury issue...  

This one was from NSW but given the (English) manual does have some Chinese on it, almost certainly sourced from there.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Journeyman

[Journeyman]

6 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

 But hey,  DIY is educational and fun! 

Ain't nobody offering to pay for my time these days so that side is free.

[BlackSands]

4 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

RFI = Radio Freq Interference?

Yes.  However yours may not be the same...?  The issue is mentioned in this review: https://owenduffy.net/blog/?p=8216

Quote

The thermostat is of poor quality due to its excessive radio emissions. It works well in other respects and there is adequate isolation between the primary power circuit, the sensor, and the output terminals.

This one is cheap Chinese junk.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by BlackSands

[Journeyman]

8 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Yes.  However yours may not be the same...?  The issue is mentioned in this review: https://owenduffy.net/blog/?p=8216

Kinda looks and sounds like mine... Which will be out in the far side of a double garage in walled off workshop. *cross fingers*

Back in the day we got power cables with suppressors fitted along the cables - supposed to improve (smooth?) supply to sensitive computer equipment - would one of those help? I notice the article mentions emissions from mains? I also seem to recall clamp-on magnetic cable additions but they may have been for old style video cables.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Journeyman

[BlackSands]

7 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Back in the day we got power cables with suppressors fitted along the cables - supposed to improve (smooth?) supply to sensitive computer equipment - would one of those help? I notice the article mentions emissions from mains? I also seem to recall clamp-on magnetic cable additions but they may have been for old style video cables.

I think you're referring to ferrite chokes -  not sure if they would work or not.  There's EMI and then there's RFI.

I wouldn't worry about unless you notice aircraft suddenly falling from the sky as they fly over....   

[Journeyman]

2 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

I wouldn't worry about unless you notice aircraft suddenly falling from the sky as they fly over....   

LOL - know a few online geo-engineering chemtrail types who would be very happy about that - maybe I shouldn't mention these controllers?  

[Otto Von Blotto]

1 hour ago, BlackSands said:

I think what he was getting at was that if using a dual power socket there's only one connection to it, powering both the switched outlets simultaneously.   So, for example if he connected the dual power point to the 'heat' output on the ITC-1000 then both sockets on the panel would be powered on at the same time during the heat cycle.  That's why I've suggested to use two single power points so they can be wired independently  - one to 'heat' and the other wired to 'cool'. 

It was a bit confusing!    

Thanks mate, that makes more sense now. Yes definitely need two separate sockets for them. 

I haven't heard anything over here about excessive radio frequency stuff in relation to these controllers, even from the tin foil hat idiots, but there's that many different "brands" of these controllers around. They probably all come from the same factory in China anyway. Certainly no planes falling out of the sky anywhere near me

 

[Journeyman]

Ah well, dozen matter...  The unit is cactus. Have double checked all connections and neither relay works, even to turn on a light. Resistance from holding screw to socket terminal is 0 on all 4 wires so it ain't the connections. Everything else works - can program the temp, sensor works fine, just no power out through the relays.

le sigh...

What can I sell to get a 308...