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First Brew Woes and Questions


Journeyman

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Hi, brand new to brewing but have listened to a few brewers across the years.

I bought a kit and extras 2nd hand from a FB Buy/Swap member. In the stuff I got were several immersion heaters, 2 with temp control - I checked they worked before hand and sterilised one.

I cut a hole in the top of the bucket (lid) and a hole in a silicon bung to feed the power lead through and dangled the heater in the bucket.

I cleaned and sanitized and started with a Real Ale Coopers can and No3 Enhancer. I gave it a couple of hours and realised I'd forgotten to get OG so I did that and it looked to be ~1035. I also checked the look & saw the heater had no LED glow. It was late so I got an old electric blanket and wrapped the bucket so it wouldn't chill overnight. 

Unfortunately it was a double blanket and the side I set to 1 wasn't the side I plugged in so I woke to find the brew showing 36°. I unwrapped to let it cool. Took HOURS but eventually came down to 24° by that evening so I wrapped it (with no heating) and went to bed.

All yesterday and today it's been sitting at 22°. I'd guess it was above 26° for about 12 hours with an unknown number of those overnight until I got up and found the temp so high. It was late when I turned on the blanket - maybe 11 PM.

Inspections: During the warm period when the temp was about 26° I could see where the top frothiness (can't recall what that is called) had reached but the surface was bubble covered with small patches showing liquid. Slight bubbling was happening across the surface.

At 22° the surface looked still. I wondered if I killed the yeast - I did the SG and it's now about 1010. 

I started late Wed arvo, it's now Sat arvo. The sample for SG smelled like beer, bit cloudy, had slight fizziness. I plan to SG tomorrow because I am wondering if the heat may have forced a fast brew.

Have I spoiled my first batch? Could it have completed brewing in such a short time?

From reading up a bit, I am hopeful the early heat may have been countered by the yeast being able to break down the unwanted products. 😄

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Hi @Journeyman,

I reckon it will be fine.  I am guessing that you used the Coopers yeast from under the can.  It is pretty robust.  The yeast at the warmer temperature may have produced some flavours such as banana.  I had something similar in an early English Bitter I did that got up to the high 20's.  Thankfully, this flavour suited that beer.  This flavour would be suited to the Real Ale too.

It is very possible to have fermented from your SG of 1.035 to 1.010 between Wednesday and today, especially with the warmer early temperature.  I have a temperature control brewing now and set my ales at 18 or 19.  Check you SG tomorrow as you intend.  Even if it is stable at 1.010, I would give it another two days to "clean up after itself".  The yeast can clean up some of the slightly dodgy flavours it creates, it will also settle out more with time.  You will see the beer become clearer looking.  

The fermenting observations you made about the krausen (top frothiness) and the bubbles on the surface sound perfectly normal.

I think you will be ready to bottle by Tuesday.  Let us know how the brew turns out.

Cheers and welcome.

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That sounds relieving. 😄 I will take your advice and check SG but leave it a while before the bottle part. I have to organise a decent way to do the sanitizing anyway - I was going to use the spare FV I got but I think I can get one of those 'press & spray' bottle rinsers.

I trust my nose in most food things and the smell this AM from the SG sample was pretty good.

I turned on the heater today - it lifted the temp slightly but it has been steady all day so I plan to leave it on overnight, checking (just in case) temp before bed.

 

cheers...  😄  

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Welcome Journeyman, so were are you brewing?   Are you in Australia? Most on here actually have to use cooling to get to the desired temps and a heat belt, during winter, to ensure it does not drop too low.  Only those in the very southern states where it gets pretty cool during winter use heating exclusively.  As far as your brew goes +1 to Shamus' comments. Should be fine. Leave it in the FV for a few extra days so it can clean up, then bottle. The only thing I will add is that the brew will benefit form extra bottle conditioning and help balance any funky flavours that may have been created during the initial high temp ferment. Once again welcome to this rabbit hole that is home brewing ... 

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I'm in Murray Bridge. I added the heat because the nights have been cold here recently and the system is out in the man cave. (half a concrete-floor double garage)

Many years back a guy I knew got into HB and from him I learned that, while you shouldn't go outside the max-min temps, what matters is keeping the temp constant. I figured the yeast action would warm things so if I added an immersion heater (which came with the 2nd hand stuff I picked up) and set it just UNDER the operating temp it would prevent things chilling off to much and the thermostat would prevent the heater continuing to warm things when the brew was OK. The garage doesn't get a lot of sun, brick house, well insulated, so I am not too worried about the warm temps.

But... Summer is coming and it does get hot here. What are the better ways to cool? I'm not close to a tap so simply running water through a coil idea isn't that practicable and the SWMBO would spit the dummy if I co-opt the bath. 😄 

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This morning the SG is just under 1010 so I figure it is still changing a  little. Sample is cloudy (I've actually had similar from a pub CPA tap when the keg is getting low) smells like beer, had a small froth on top (couple of mm's) from the pour into the SG container and, tastes like beer. Had good beer flavour with a bitter after taste, but not a bad bitter, if that makes sense.

I remain hopeful. 😄

Off today to pick up some PET bottles someone doesn't want to add to my Coopers long necks I've been collecting and to get a bottle rinser thing a mate has - we didn't know what it was but in browsing around I saw one so that should make the bottle side easier. 😄 And it sits on the bottle tree I have. 😄 Bonus!

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Use one of these. With a temperature controlled fridge you can brew whatever you want at any time of year and be confident that it's always sitting at the desired temperature without having to stick things in the beer like immersion heaters etc. which to me is an added infection risk, albeit small. You can also put a heater of some sort inside the fridge in the colder weather to prevent it dropping too far. Keep ales around 18-20 for best results, mid 20s is too warm.

20190312_113345.thumb.jpg.8302e79524268036c1ca546ff73d3ea7.jpg

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Will look around for a cheap one online - there's usually a few. Money is tight though. 😄 

A question though... I saw a couple of comments while browsing around the site about stirring the brew. Is that something I might try to help things along re letting the yeast work on possible byproducts of heating?

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34 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

But... Summer is coming and it does get hot here. What are the better ways to cool? I'm not close to a tap so simply running water through a coil idea isn't that practicable and the SWMBO would spit the dummy if I co-opt the bath. 😄 

Welcome Journeyman.
Ideally an old fridge with an added thermostat controller like an Inkbird, as shown by Otto above, is the best way to keep your temps constant. However, if all that equipment is too hard to acquire, to keep things cooler, quite cheaply but not as effectively, I use an old t-shirt over the FV, a tray of water under it and a fan to create a swamp cooler. I'd love to have an old fridge but I brew in the kitchen. Not only would SWMBO not be happy with an old fridge in there, even I don't want one in there. I could do so in the garage but, like you, there's no water supply close enough for my liking.

IMG_20190315_232204.thumb.jpg.dded723d255a62d526c7f69a5931d404.jpg

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My pocket likes the low tech idea. 😄 Would an old fridge be able to keep a temp as high as 20°?

Re: my brew, what are the thoughts on finings to clear the beer before bottling? I read about using used sediment (like from Coopers Pale bottles) and reusing the yeast and thought that could be the way to go from my products but also that using fining process might queer the yeast.  But on this first batch I just want to see if I can get drinkable beer. Later for getting fancy. 😄 

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7 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

My pocket likes the low tech idea. 😄 Would an old fridge be able to keep a temp as high as 20°?

Yeah the fridge will do all temps. This video explains how the Inkbird works with a fridge. The fridge is for keeping the temps constant, not for cooling as such.

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I don't suppose there's a home brewer marketplace where people sell their spare or unwanteds?

EDIT: I found one on FB that I'll join and see what they have. (Homebrew Buy Sell Swap (Australia) Home Brew Beer Spirits)

Any other suggestions welcome. 😄

 

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20 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I don't suppose there's a home brewer marketplace where people sell their spare or unwanteds?

EDIT: I found one on FB that I'll join and see what they have. (Homebrew Buy Sell Swap (Australia) Home Brew Beer Spirits)

Any other suggestions welcome. 😄

 

Ebay is a good place because you can search stuff within your budget with their site's filters.
 

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Gumtree is a good place to find cheap or even free fridges as well. I have two now but not from there. The first one has been in the family for 50 or 60 years, used to be dad's aunt's fridge. When she died it went to the olds place and wasn't really used for much for 15 years so I began using it for fermentation about 7 years ago. The second one is more recent, it's the kitchen fridge we got when my missus and I first moved in together. I replaced it a little while ago and took it as a second ferment fridge. It's almost ready to go, just gotta varnish the plywood shelf and get another fermenter. 

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As far as budgets go, I have mine wrapped in a sleeping bag with 2 frozen 1.5 litre water bottles underneath. Change them at 6am and 6pm.

I live in qld, and 2 brews in a row this method has kept the temperature at between 16-20 the whole time. We had a few 30+ days too. It appears to work quite well.

E5B06252-0431-482F-BCDA-A0527708613C.jpeg

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I've been looking. I'll probably go for an eBay controller but the Inkbirds are a bit expensive for now. Once I save some money on the pub beer I'm not buying, maybe. But there's no-name brand STC-1000 dual controllers for like 1/3rd the cost of an Inkbird.

Fridge seems relatively easy to pick up when the time comes - they're always on Murray Bridge Buy/Swap/Sell FB site.

Next day or so is clean out a barrel for washing the bottles then sanitise and store in the cupboard for bottling day. How effective is the sanitising process? For now I have Sodium metabisulphate. Will it keep the bottles sanitised for a day or so until I start bottling if they are in a cupboard away from food sources? Or should I plan on doing it the morning of bottling and move straight to filling them?

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21 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Will look around for a cheap one online - there's usually a few. Money is tight though. 😄 

A question though... I saw a couple of comments while browsing around the site about stirring the brew. Is that something I might try to help things along re letting the yeast work on possible byproducts of heating?

Stir your brew well, when mixing the ingredients and maybe after pitching the yeast to give the yeast oxygen but once the lid is on, do not stir. Not only will you stir up all the slurry, you'll destroy the CO2 layer on top of the brew protecting it from nasties and oxidation of the beer may have some unwanted side effects.

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16 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I've been looking. I'll probably go for an eBay controller but the Inkbirds are a bit expensive for now. Once I save some money on the pub beer I'm not buying, maybe. But there's no-name brand STC-1000 dual controllers for like 1/3rd the cost of an Inkbird.

Fridge seems relatively easy to pick up when the time comes - they're always on Murray Bridge Buy/Swap/Sell FB site.

Next day or so is clean out a barrel for washing the bottles then sanitise and store in the cupboard for bottling day. How effective is the sanitising process? For now I have Sodium metabisulphate. Will it keep the bottles sanitised for a day or so until I start bottling if they are in a cupboard away from food sources? Or should I plan on doing it the morning of bottling and move straight to filling them?

My first one has an STC on it, elitech branded (apparently the no name ones aren't as good?), was only about $20, but I grabbed an inkbird for the second one so I didn't have to do any wiring, not that it was difficult though. Both controllers work pretty much the same way. 

I would get some acid based sanitiser like starsan or stellarsan. Then you can clean your bottles with whatever, a lot of us use nappy soakers or sodium percarbonate by itself, rinse and dry, and then spray them out with the sanitiser on bottling day. Sodium met is effective as well but probably best rinsed off. Once they're dried out though it's unlikely anything will grow in them, these bugs need moisture. 

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With the precautions about bugs of various kinds, I was wondering what the possible effects of using a UV light around the brew and equipment might be. Would it affect the wild yeast (with the FV protected from it of course) and prevent spoilage?

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Doing a bit of research, some people say light, particularly UV will produce bad flavours or 'skunk' the beer but more science-related sites say that in minor amounts at low intensity, UV will stimulate the fermenting process...

Colour me confused. 😄 

I'd guess the UV usefulness would be at the start of the process.

But they do say UV in longer bursts and higher intensity will destroy the yeasts, so it could be a simple way to ensure purity in the fV. (again, with the FV protected against the UV environment)

 

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51 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I would get some acid based sanitiser like starsan or stellarsan. Then you can clean your bottles with whatever, a lot of us use nappy soakers or sodium percarbonate by itself, rinse and dry, and then spray them out with the sanitiser on bottling day. Sodium met is effective as well but probably best rinsed off. Once they're dried out though it's unlikely anything will grow in them, these bugs need moisture. 

I've got some Stellarsan on it's way - I got the Na Meta with the kit stuff I bought so it's cheap.  😄 

See previous bit about UV - I'm thinking a UV storage cupboard could be useful - sanitise everything in a batch then put it in the cupboard with UV on - not much is ging to pollute the equipment in there.   😄 

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