Abbey Blonde

[Aussiekraut]

I've been putting down the Abbey Blonde from the recipe section

https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/abbey-blonde.html

What I noticed is that the recipe says ABV would be around 6% and to expect an FG of 1010-1014. The OG of the brew was 1050, so best case scenario would be an ABV of 5.25%, worst case around 4.75%. Ok, bottle conditioning adds another .5% so I'd get near the 6% in best case but would still be way off in the worst case scenario. Am I missing something? 

The Ian H spreadsheet says OG should be 1052, so I am pretty close but it expects an FG 1016 based on the yeast. The spreadsheet only lets me add on e type of yeast, not both I used (the recipe asks for S-33 and T-58) but I guess that won't make much difference as the FG doesn't change between both yeasts. The expected ABV is 5.2 in the bottle. that's a long way off the 6% in the recipe. Not that I am desperate for the ABV but @ 5.2%, it isn't really a strong ale.

Does anybody have experience with this particular beer?

[ben 10]

Are you saying the measured OG was lower than the recipe said it would be?
Your reading may be off, as in, what you drew off as a sample may not accurately represent what was in the brew.
Coopers - I think - test the actual alcohol content of the final product which os more accurate than spreadsheet predictions.

Did you only fill it to 20 litres?
 

[Aussiekraut]

37 minutes ago, Ben 10 said:

Are you saying the measured OG was lower than the recipe said it would be?
Your reading may be off, as in, what you drew off as a sample may not accurately represent what was in the brew.
Coopers - I think - test the actual alcohol content of the final product which os more accurate than spreadsheet predictions.

Did you only fill it to 20 litres?
 

No, the recipe doesn't give you the expected OG. I measured 1050 and the spreadsheet calculated 1052, so that's quite on the mark. It's the expected FG given in the recipe (1010-1014) which, in light of the measured OG, don't add up to the final expected ABV. The spreadsheet even expects a higher FG reading of 1016, based on the T58 yeast. My calculations based on the OG and the recipe result in ABV between 4.75 and 5.25 (+0.5% in the bottle) and the spreadsheet calculates 5.2% ABV based on the OG and expected FG. So I am quite a bit off the 6% the recipe mentions.

Volume is 23l as per recipe. I was tempted to go 20l but didn't end up with too much ABV. In hindsight, it may have been the way to go.

[ben 10]

Coopers - as I said - I think get the actual finished beer tested for alcohol content. @PB2 can clarify I am sure but calculated predictions are not always accurate.

Putting the recipe into Beersmith, including the carb drops, I get the following....no bitterness because I added 3.2kg liquid malt.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Ben 10

[Aussiekraut]

4 minutes ago, Ben 10 said:

Coopers - as I said - I think get the actual finished beer tested for alcohol content. @PB2 can clarify I am sure but calculated predictions are not always accurate.

Putting the recipe into Beersmith, including the carb drops, I get the following....no bitterness because I added 3.2kg liquid malt.

 

 

 

 

Closer to the mark. I haven't added any dextrose for the bottles into the mix though. I thought the spreadsheet caters for the bottle conditioning as it gives me different results for "keg" and "bottle". That could of course be the difference.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

I did that a long way back but I never used t58 or s33. I used danstar abbaye. But i can tell you that every belgian yeast i have used has attenuated way further than the yeast specs suggest. From mid 80s to mid 90s. They are not even close in there specs. Thats due to most of them being diastaticus strains and they will ferment out sugars the US05s and S04s wont touch. Ill have a 50 on you will ferement lower than 1010.

[The Captain!!]

@Aussiekraut I’d take what Greeny says as gospel on Belgium’s. Not that you wouldn’t. Just saying I think Greeny has forgotten more than most people know about the subject. 

Hope your brew goes well

[Beerlust]

16 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

...The Ian H spreadsheet says OG should be 1052, so I am pretty close but it expects an FG 1016 based on the yeast.

The spreadsheet as a base to work off, has a generic value of 75% attenuation set for almost (if not) every strain of yeast. You the brewer need to to manually adjust these values as you brew & learn how your chosen yeast attenuates.

If you are unsure about what to expect from a yeast you wish to use, go to the manufacturer's website & check their expected attenuation figures for the strain & then use this percentage figure in the spreadsheet.

Best of luck with the brew,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

The spreadsheet OG calculation is based off weight of sugars in the specified volume, which is a pretty straightforward calculation when it's known how many SG points is provided by 100g of malt sugars pet litre of water. I've done the calculation myself and always end up at the same figure as the spreadsheet prediction. This calculation doesn't take into account inaccuracies in volume, the hydrometer itself, temperature or how well the extract was dissolved, so I personally would trust it over a real hydrometer reading which can be skewed by those variables. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

1 hour ago, Beerlust said:

The spreadsheet as a base to work off, has a generic value of 75% attenuation set for almost (if not) every strain of yeast. You the brewer need to to manually adjust these values as you brew & learn how your chosen yeast attenuates.

If you are unsure about what to expect from a yeast you wish to use, go to the manufacturer's website & check their expected attenuation figures for the strain & then use this percentage figure in the spreadsheet.

Best of luck with the brew,

Lusty.

Most of the yeast websites only go high, medium and low and for good reason. Its too variable. I do know the Wyeast website figures are not worth a pinch of shite with the belgian strains. I wouldn't trust it at all. Its just plain wrong and misleading. 

Wyeast 1214 - 74-78. Reality high 80s early 90s

Wyeast 1388 - 74-78. Reality early to mid 90s

Wyeast 3787 - 74-78. Reality high 80s early 90s

My advice. Give it a rip and where it ends up it ends up.

[BlackSands]

 

14 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

.... but I never used t58 or s33. I used danstar abbaye. But i can tell you that every belgian yeast i have used has attenuated way further than the yeast specs suggest. From mid 80s to mid 90s. They are not even close in there specs. Thats due to most of them being diastaticus strains and they will ferment out sugars the US05s and S04s wont touch. Ill have a 50 on you will ferement lower than 1010.

 

except... s-33 is not a Belgian strain.  It's actually believed to be the old Edme English ale yeast:

 

10 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

@Aussiekraut I’d take what Greeny says as gospel on Belgium’s. Not that you wouldn’t. Just saying I think Greeny has forgotten more than most people know about the subject. 

Hope your brew goes well

 

Perhaps you can go halves on the $50 he'll be sending to AUSSIEKRAUT  

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by BlackSands

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

English ale yeast to do a belgian blond? Sacrilege!!!

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

The spreadsheet OG calculation is based off weight of sugars in the specified volume, which is a pretty straightforward calculation when it's known how many SG points is provided by 100g of malt sugars pet litre of water. I've done the calculation myself and always end up at the same figure as the spreadsheet prediction. This calculation doesn't take into account inaccuracies in volume, the hydrometer itself, temperature or how well the extract was dissolved, so I personally would trust it over a real hydrometer reading which can be skewed by those variables. 

I do trust the spreadsheet. I just can't see the beer going to 6% ABV, if the estimates of the spreadsheet and the recipe are correct. If Greeny is right though and the yeast will bring the FG to below 1010, then it should be ok.

I guess I'll see in two weeks time. Probably less as I am fermenting at 21C as per the recipe, instead of the usual 18C.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yes I get what you're saying. If it got to 1.010 from 1.052, you'd get close to 6% in the bottles (5.4% before bottle priming is added), so given the yeast may end up below that I reckon it'll get there pretty easily. 

[Beerlust]

8 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Most of the yeast websites only go high, medium and low and for good reason. Its too variable. I do know the Wyeast website figures are not worth a pinch of shite with the belgian strains. I wouldn't trust it at all. Its just plain wrong and misleading. 

Wyeast 1214 - 74-78. Reality high 80s early 90s

Wyeast 1388 - 74-78. Reality early to mid 90s

Wyeast 3787 - 74-78. Reality high 80s early 90s

My advice. Give it a rip and where it ends up it ends up.

I agree the liquid yeast attenuation figures can be a bit hit & miss, as depending on the time you receive them the starting live cell counts can vary & seem to more than the dried yeast varieties that appear to hold a more consistent starting count figure & a longer shelf life to begin with.

Just my 20 cents,

Lusty.

[Aussiekraut]

Ok. So I just found out that both of my Hydrometers are out. With plain, cold tap water they read 996 instead of 1000, so the OG is about 1054, which brings things closer to the intended results. On the other hand, both Hydrometers being out by the same amount? 

[BlackSands]

9 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Ok. So I just found out that both of my Hydrometers are out. With plain, cold tap water they read 996 instead of 1000, so the OG is about 1054, which brings things closer to the intended results. On the other hand, both Hydrometers being out by the same amount? 

That is odd!  Out of interest, which brand are they?   Over the years I have seen recurring reports of the Coopers hydrometers being out of calibration...