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EWildcat7

lack of carbonation

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Yep I'm in Canberra and use lager yeast from roughly April to October (with the help of my Cool Brewing Bag). I just pitched my first lot of ale yeast for quite a while on the weekend.

Strange about the batch with W34/70 though.

Oh and Canberra isn't that cold, I've been cycling to work in the mornings through winter. Just have to layer up a bit. The summer is terrible though. 

Cheers, 

John 

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so, if the problem is that my beer is too cold once I put it in the bottles, is that fixable?  The coconut porter (which used nottingham yeast) was bottled in March.  I had one of the bottles a few days ago and it was still flat.  Now that the weather is getting warmer, will they get better?

As for the Coopers kit yeasts, if that is the problem, would that be solved by using another kind of yeast?

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39 minutes ago, EWildcat7 said:

so, if the problem is that my beer is too cold once I put it in the bottles, is that fixable?  The coconut porter (which used nottingham yeast) was bottled in March.  I had one of the bottles a few days ago and it was still flat.  Now that the weather is getting warmer, will they get better?

As for the Coopers kit yeasts, if that is the problem, would that be solved by using another kind of yeast?

The Porter should be fairly flat - that's the style of beer it is, but it should have a head. The carbing rates for these are usually lower to ensure that. But if it's been stored lower than 18C for most of this time, the yeast will have gone dormant and if an extended period below 18C, the yeast might not be viable anymore.

I've used a lot of Coopers kit yeasts and only had real issues with one batch in 20+ brews. I doubt the yeasts are at fault.

Edited by Lab Rat

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reviving this thread due to an odd issue...

I brewed a Mr. Beer batch of Easy Peesy Blu Wheat and bottled it on 15 October, producing 11 bottles.  10 of the bottles are rock hard, but 1 is not so much.  It is somewhat carbonated because it is not as soft as when I filled the bottles, but it is just not like the others.  All of the bottles are being stored in the same place.  Is it possible that there wasn't enough yeast in this particular bottle?  Could the bottle or cap be leaking?  I have tightened the cap and gently shaken the bottle several times over the past few weeks and it is not helping.

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On 10/11/2019 at 7:43 PM, EWildcat7 said:

"and I tighten the caps twice per day for the first few days after bottling"

This caught my eye. Can you explain what it is you are doing here? Why are you going back to retighten the caps?

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12 minutes ago, EWildcat7 said:

reviving this thread due to an odd issue...

I brewed a Mr. Beer batch of Easy Peesy Blu Wheat and bottled it on 15 October, producing 11 bottles.  10 of the bottles are rock hard, but 1 is not so much.  It is somewhat carbonated because it is not as soft as when I filled the bottles, but it is just not like the others.  All of the bottles are being stored in the same place.  Is it possible that there wasn't enough yeast in this particular bottle?  Could the bottle or cap be leaking?  I have tightened the cap and gently shaken the bottle several times over the past few weeks and it is not helping.

From the above comments I know from now I am going to take note of which bottles are first out of the FV. I have an extra so if I see a correlation I will start the bulk prime method rather than straight from the FV.

I haven't been shaking my brew at all. When I put the drops in and lid on, I swirl them but after that I don't touch them. Is it advisable to do the mixing after that? Does it help the carbonation? 

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7 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

This caught my eye. Can you explain what it is you are doing here? Why are you going back to retighten the caps?

I tighten them just in case the gas produced from the carbonation loosens them,.  I know the chances of that happening are slim, but figure it certainly can't hurt to tighten the caps.

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It sounds like a bottle cap issue, it's highly unlikely there wouldn't be enough yeast, and temperature sounds fine given the others have worked. The other possible cause would be that you only put one drop in that bottle for some reason, assuming drops were used?

I don't know if it's the same with the pet bottles but with glass, oddly enough the carbonation actually helps seal them better. 

There's no need to shake or swirl the bottles but to get the yeast back in suspension if they fail, they can be gently inverted a few times. Back when I used the drops I'd just put one in (stubbies), cap the bottle and leave it. 

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6 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

It sounds like a bottle cap issue, it's highly unlikely there wouldn't be enough yeast, and temperature sounds fine given the others have worked. The other possible cause would be that you only put one drop in that bottle for some reason, assuming drops were used?

I don't know if it's the same with the pet bottles but with glass, oddly enough the carbonation actually helps seal them better. 

There's no need to shake or swirl the bottles but to get the yeast back in suspension if they fail, they can be gently inverted a few times. Back when I used the drops I'd just put one in (stubbies), cap the bottle and leave it. 

I suppose it is possible that I only put in 1 carb drop...

When the beer is ready to drink, I will try this one first and mark the bottle and cap so that I can see if it happens again with another batch.

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I had a PET bottle not firm up in a recent brew.  The other PET's in that brew are firm as.  A week and a half ago I opened the cap, dropped in a teaspoon of sugar, then re-capped it - really quickly before it fizzed over (the fizzing suggested it contained plenty of CO2, just not pressurised).  The bottle has hardened a fair bit.  Not as hard as usual, but maybe in a few days it will be ready.  All being stored inside above 18°C.

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:22 AM, Aussiekraut said:

My beers do eventually carbonate but it seems to take a very long time in some cases. Bottled a dark ale 4 weeks ago and the PET bottles only now start firming up a little. Opened a glass bottle last week and there was no "pfft", not even a fluff.  It was a flat as when it was bottled. Then again, I had bottled an MJ Irish Red a week prior and it was fully carbonated within a few days. 

 

I take you're in Adelaide, as I am? I bottled an Amber Ale tweaked-up recipe on 22-June and it took until end September before it came good. Glad I was patient as the brew is magnificent. So good, in fact, that my final 12 bottles now form part of my 'private cellar', ie, not to be shared with anyone else! Sometimes nature can't be rushed, I think.

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1 hour ago, FusterCluck said:

I take you're in Adelaide, as I am? I bottled an Amber Ale tweaked-up recipe on 22-June and it took until end September before it came good. Glad I was patient as the brew is magnificent. So good, in fact, that my final 12 bottles now form part of my 'private cellar', ie, not to be shared with anyone else! Sometimes nature can't be rushed, I think.

Nah mate, Brisbane 🙂 But temps in the "brewery" can drop below 18 in winter, hence beers taking a lot longer. Currently, the PET bottles are rather firm within 2-3 days. Sometimes it scares me how fast they carbonate, thinking it may not have finished fermenting and having visions of beer bombs.  

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I find the first few days to be critical for correct temperature. I bottle at ambient temperature,then immediately move them to a warm spot . A high shelf in the living area works well I find. The two plastic bottles I use in each brew for testing purposes usually begin to harden within 24 hours. (The rest are brown glass with screw tops.) I imagine the trick is to get the yeast cells busy before they sink to the bottom. Someone more knowledgeable may have a better explanation. Cheers.

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12 hours ago, Worts and all said:

I find the first few days to be critical for correct temperature....I imagine the trick is to get the yeast cells busy before they sink to the bottom.

I believe that is absolutely true.

Cheers,

Christina.

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How does cold crashing beer affect bottle carbonation?

I'm for the first time cold crashing a batch to see if I can reduce the sediment in the bottle and get less chill haze. But naturally, most of the yeast has dropped out of suspension and it will take a lot longer to build up enough cells for bottle fermentation. I'll take the FV out of the fridge tonight, so I'll be bottling at ambient temps, which will hopefully help things along.

How much longer can I expect carbonation to take? I've heard people talk about 4 weeks to full carbonation.

 

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6 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

How does cold crashing beer affect bottle carbonation?

I'm for the first time cold crashing a batch to see if I can reduce the sediment in the bottle and get less chill haze. But naturally, most of the yeast has dropped out of suspension and it will take a lot longer to build up enough cells for bottle fermentation. I'll take the FV out of the fridge tonight, so I'll be bottling at ambient temps, which will hopefully help things along.

How much longer can I expect carbonation to take? I've heard people talk about 4 weeks to full carbonation.

 

Cold crashing will make bottles carb slower most definately. In experience about 3 or 4 days to a week more.

I bottle cold and let it warm. Never had a problem doing it this way.

Chill haze is interesting. The only way i have found to be very effective in combating it is a fast chill which i do for all my lagers. I combine fast chill with a gelatin treatment and its crystal. I have tried a few times gelatin on a no chill batch and got the chill haze so i figured the fast chill was the key. I know kelsey and some others use polycar effectively but just the thought of plastic in my beer put me off that.

I have found a cold crash on its own with no fining will help reduce but you wont get a crystal clear beer with only a cold crash. 

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Didn't really make any difference when I was bottling, and I bottled it cold, letting it warm up in the bottles. You will still have plenty of yeast available for bottle carbonation. Unless it's winter I don't see any point in warming the beer up again prior to bottling it. 

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it is not really hard: Bottle the beer, add the correct amount of sugar. Put on the caps and ensure they a VERY tight.  Store above 18 in a dark place. Should be OK to drink in 2 weeks. 

If  the caps were very tight and the beer is flat then you have not put in enough sugar.  If the caps were not very tight then it could be the caps or lack of sugar. If not stored above 18 and the caps were not very tight then it could be the temp is too low, the caps were not tight enough or lack of sugar.    Simples

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Where do Whirlfloc (Irish Moss) tablets fit in the scheme of things? I've seen recommendations for half a tablet to be added to the hop boil after flameout. So what is this meant to achieve?

TBH, I'm a bit unfazed when it comes to chill haze,  in a death-and-taxes are going to happen way. As for lees, I just take care of them by carefully pouring into a jug then dispensing the beer from that into glasses.  I've even been known to skull it straight from the jug. 😳

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3 minutes ago, FusterCluck said:

Where do Whirlfloc (Irish Moss) tablets fit in the scheme of things? I've seen recommendations for half a tablet to be added to the hop boil after flameout. So what is this meant to achieve?

TBH, I'm a bit unfazed when it comes to chill haze,  in a death-and-taxes are going to happen way. As for lees, I just take care of them by carefully pouring into a jug then dispensing the beer from that into glasses.  I've even been known to skull it straight from the jug. 😳

Oh I don't have a problem with it either. I just want to see if I can tell the difference. When I come home from work, I crack open a stubby and drink it straight out of the bottle. Only tallies or "ejoying" beers are poured into glasses. Some people say less sediment, less farts but I'm not sure about that 🙂 

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23 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Some people say less sediment, less farts but I'm not sure about that 🙂 

I'm with you. My experience has been that loving crafted beers substantially enhance one's, emm, 'microbiome'. And that's a good thing (so we're told).

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Whirlfloc is for all grain brewing and it helps coagulation and precipitation of proteins and other unwanted crap at the end of the boil. It's actually added with about 7-8 minutes of the boil left.

I almost always poured bottles into a glass, didn't taste anything like as good drinking it straight from the bottle, sediment or not.

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