Dry hopping questions

[Aussiekraut]

1. When?

Some say after 4 days, some after 7 days. So one is during fairly active fermentation, the other toward the end. Does the state of fermentation impact on the effects of dry hopping? Do the hops still have an impact on the beer if dry hopped for a week? Or do the hops simply "run out", like a tea bag for example?

2. How?

I know how to dry hop but is it enough to just drop a hop sock on top of the wort and hope for the best? Should it be weighed down? The latter has the disadvantage that you won't get it out again until the FV is empty. I don't like commando hopping as I really don't appreciate hop matter between my teeth when drinking beer. This happened with a MJ Irish Red, where the hops didn't sink to the bottom and are in pretty much every bottle.  Is there an advantage to weighing them down?

 

[Olemate]

While I'm a relative noob, I've been dry hopping for quite some time and I've found that hopping after fermentation is virtually, or completely finished gives me the best results, particularly aroma wise. I guess because the aroma isn't driven off by hopping during fermentation.

I generally use the s/s tea balls that sink on their own. For larger hop volumes (greater than, say, 20gms) I use a hop sock, leaving plenty of room for expansion, with a s/s bolt as a weight. Suitably sanitised marbles etc. will do the job as well. The hops remain in the FV for 5 - 7 days until kegging. I've had no issues with off flavours, but I do get a cloudiness in the finished beer as I don't fin or c/c

Hope this helps.

[karlos_1984]

I've had mixed results and have tried various methods. In my initial brews, I was using a Muslim cloth hop sock to dry hop with to contain them. My beers all tasted the same regardless of what hops used. Trial and error found that the cause was the hop sock wasn't properly cleaned in between batches, cashing dodgy flavours.  I no longer use this method. 

To get around the issue, I use the chux cloth method now. I basically cut a cloth in half, then cut a strip off one end. I dunk it all in star san, ring it out and place over a small bowl that's been sanitised also, then drop my weight of hops in and bundle it up, tieing it all off with the strip of chux I'd cut off earlier. I don't put more than 25g in per bundle (to allow for expansion) and have used up to 4 at a time for about a 100g total dry hop. Once done, I sanitise my hands and pull them out and squeeze them to get all the Hoppy goodness out then just chuck them in the compost. I've had the best results using this method and have done so for the last 8 or so brews so far. 

I have dry hopped commando as well in the past. This also works well for flavour and aroma, however I stopped doing it because it takes longer from brew day to drinking it because I'd cold crash it to drop everything out. I'd then use a sanitised food grade hose with a sanitised grain bag lining a secondary FV, and transfer from the primary to secondary via the hose. This caught a lot of hop debris in the process and stopped the floaties getting transferred into the bottle. Regardless of what I've read and from experience, cold crashing will not stop hop debris completely. Doing this transfer and filter using a grain bag was the only way I could prevent it. Obviously this added a lot more time to bottling day, and prevented me from being able to harvest and reuse yeast.

Hence why I've stuck to the chux cloth method. Sorry for the long winded post. Hopefully it helps U out.

[Lab Cat]

I dry hop around day 4 when most of my SG has dropped. Sanitised hop sack, held with the lid wedging it to the top. Before CC I take it out and squeeze.

Rookie mistake on the last one, I left it in during CC and it sank to the bottom. Fishing it out disturbed the wort and yeast. I'm sure the beer will live...

[YeastyBoy]

Plus one re Chux Cloth Dry Hop method as described by @karlos_1984

Think there was a thread a few months/year ago, worth a search if interested for further info.

Cheers YB

[YeastyBoy]

@Aussiekraut

For your viewing pleasure;

Drop it into the FV & squeeze out bottling day.

This one is for my Oz Pale Ale.

Job done.

[Aussiekraut]

6 minutes ago, YeastyBoy said:

@Aussiekraut

For your viewing pleasure;

Drop it into the FV & squeeze out bottling day.

This one is for my Oz Pale Ale.

Job done.

Thanks YB. 

I usually use mesh hop bags if I have any, otherwise Chux will do. But do I just let it float on top? My problem is that I'm always worried the floating bag will give nasties somethign to hold on to and multiply. Hence me thinking a few marbles (I actually bought a bag) to help sink the hops to the bottom might be safer. I'm probably just paranoid but no matter how careful and diligent I am, there is always the odd batch that goes wrong, at least partially. In the last 6 months, I ended up with 3 batches of sour, undrinkable beer.  It is rather frustrating.

 

[YeastyBoy]

12 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Thanks YB. 

I usually use mesh hop bags if I have any, otherwise Chux will do. But do I just let it float on top? My problem is that I'm always worried the floating bag will give nasties somethign to hold on to and multiply. Hence me thinking a few marbles (I actually bought a bag) to help sink the hops to the bottom might be safer. I'm probably just paranoid but no matter how careful and diligent I am, there is always the odd batch that goes wrong, at least partially. In the last 6 months, I ended up with 3 batches of sour, undrinkable beer.  It is rather frustrating.

 

Yes I just let it bob around semi submerged on the surface of the brew. Easy to fish out, squeeze and remove.

Day 4 to 7 depending on when I remember. Think aroma outcome has more to do with the quality of the hop. You know the IT saying garbage in/garbage out?

I normally use the Chux straight off the roll. As @karlos_1984 said you can sanitise to ensure no nasties get into the FV.

I use an airlock system which I think helps prevent bugs getting out of control in the FV.

Hearing ya, three sour brews in six months would have me being cautious too.

Goodluck with the next brew.

Cheers YB

Edited October 8, 2019 by YeastyBoy

[Beerlust]

3 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

I usually use mesh hop bags if I have any, otherwise Chux will do. But do I just let it float on top?

When you add the Chux baggy with your hops inside, take the time to submerge it a few times without lifting it out of the beer. Initially it will want to float a bit, but by submerging it a few times it will cause the hops to disperse outward inside the baggy & allow more of the surface area of the hops to absorb liquid. The chux cloth will also absorb liquid that will keep them no worse than the surface area of the beer where they can all be in contact. Make sure the baggy you make up has at least 1/3 to 1/2 again bigger to allow for the expansion of the hops. Squeeze the liquid from the hops once you remove them as they hold a lot of highly aromatic flavoured beer still in them once you remove the baggy from the beer.

11 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

...My problem is that I'm always worried the floating bag will give nasties something to hold on to and multiply. Hence me thinking a few marbles (I actually bought a bag) to help sink the hops to the bottom might be safer.

A misnomer (IMHO). When you're adding dry hops, if you're adding them once fermentation dies down, you're adding them to beer. Beer has alcohol in it, & alcohol is a barrier to a vast majority of infections & bacteria & can even rid an area of them where they are present. The main issue when adding dry hops is that you are disturbing the CO² blanket that protects the beer from oxidation. Oxidation in it's self only becomes a problem when it is prolonged as it reduces the shelf-life/drinking life of the beer.

Lighter alcohol beers are a little more susceptible to some post fermentation bacterial infections due to their low alcohol protection level, but even then, documented experiences of this happening post-fermentation are very rare.

22 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

...I'm probably just paranoid but no matter how careful and diligent I am, there is always the odd batch that goes wrong, at least partially. In the last 6 months, I ended up with 3 batches of sour, undrinkable beer.  It is rather frustrating.

I would suggest these are pre-fermentation issues revolving around numerous areas involving your wort preparation time, yeast & possibly the gravity you have asked it to ferment out.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

[der kleine Drache]

2 hours ago, Beerlust said:

When you add the Chux baggy with your hops inside, take the time to submerge it a few times without lifting it out of the beer. Initially it will want to float a bit, but by submerging it a few times it will cause the hops to disperse outward inside the baggy & allow more of the surface area of the hops to absorb liquid. 

I always put a small stone in as a sinker  and also a cork so I can can get the bag out easy. 

[BlackSands]

I recently purchased one of these.  I've only used it in the kettle so far but will also give it a go in a dry hop next brew...

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I usually do it once FG is reached. I have a couple of large tea strainer balls that I put them in. They usually sit for a couple of days before the cold crash begins, at which point they sink and stay there until kegging a week or so later. I haven't had any flavour issues so far. 

[Beerlust]

10 hours ago, BlackSands said:

I recently purchased one of these.  I've only used it in the kettle so far but will also give it a go in a dry hop next brew...

 

Does it come with a plunger?

Hard to squeeze the aromatic beer absorbed by the dry hops outta that.

Just my 20 cents.

Lusty.

[The Captain!!]

49 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Does it come with a plunger?

Hard to squeeze the aromatic beer absorbed by the dry hops outta that.

Just my 20 cents.

Lusty.

Stainless plunger from a silicone gun will do it.

[Beerlust]

34 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Stainless plunger from a silicone gun will do it.

Good luck clearing the floaties out of that beer.

[The Captain!!]

Silicone is a fining isn’t it

[Beerlust]

36 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Silicone is a fining isn’t it

It's a small step away from fish guts you know. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Silicic acid is a fining, dunno about silicone itself though

[ChristinaS1]

Hey, I recently also bought one of those gizmos that BlackSands has, but I have not had a chance to use it yet.

I dry hop commando. My plan is to put the end of my auto siphon in the tube when I am transferring, to prevent the hops (and yeast) from getting sucked up....I know most of you don't use auto siphons.

Cheers,

Christina.

[ChristinaS1]

On 10/7/2019 at 6:00 PM, Aussiekraut said:

1. When?

Some say after 4 days, some after 7 days. So one is during fairly active fermentation, the other toward the end. Does the state of fermentation impact on the effects of dry hopping? Do the hops still have an impact on the beer if dry hopped for a week? Or do the hops simply "run out", like a tea bag for example?

Yes, the state of fermentation does impact the effects of dry hopping. Yeast can convert geraniol to citronellol, and linalool to nerol. If you do a hop stand, or add the dry hops at yeast pitching time, or early during active fermentation, the yeast will have a chance to do that conversion; the earlier in the process you add them, the more citronellol and nerol (provided the hops contain good levels of geraniol and linalool). If you want some geraniol and linalool to remain unconverted (they too taste lovely), dry hop after FG has been reached. Dry hopping after FG results in more volatile compounds like myrcene still being around when you begin to drink the beer; some people like myrecene and some people don't. 

Dry hopping during active fermentation also results in a less harsh, less astringent beer. Yeast interact with the polyphenols and and pull some of them out of suspension during flocculation. 

Most of the aroma transfer from dry hopping happens in less than 48 hours. Extended dry hopping times increases the amount of polyphenols in the beer; polyphenol extraction peaks at around three days. To reduce polyphenols, dry hop for two days and at slightly cooler temperatures (~14C). 

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Christina.

PS Above info taken from "The New IPA," by Scott Janish.

[digger000]

Hey guys, i've done the chux method in my current brew. When it comes out, is there any need to stir the wort to make sure the hops flavour has spread evenly through the brew or does it distribute itself through it fairly well on its own?

[Shamus O'Sean]

13 minutes ago, digger000 said:

Hey guys, i've done the chux method in my current brew. When it comes out, is there any need to stir the wort to make sure the hops flavour has spread evenly through the brew or does it distribute itself through it fairly well on its own?

No need to stir.  It will spread through the beer itself.

[Journeyman]

Sounds like another set of exbeeriments to try in the future - finding out what flavours geraniol, citronellol, linalool & nerol are like. If they're all nice, maybe it's worth doing 2 x dry hops at different items to get ALL the flavours.

Is there some other description than doing hops 'commando style'? I keep getting pics of bottom-half-naked, burly, bearded brewers dancing around their FV's.

(and now YOU won't be able to get rid of that pic either... )  

Edited November 7, 2019 by Journeyman

[Otto Von Blotto]

The best brewers brew with no pants.

[Hairy]

56 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

The best brewers brew with no pants.

My beers are so good that I don't even own pants.