Aussiekraut Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I've been watching lots of videos with people using a microbrewery like Robobrew or Guten and some are mashing the full boil volume and others mash part of the boil volume and then sparge to get to the full volume. What are the benefits of either method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I have a robobrew and if you dont sparge at all you will lose 3 or 4 points of efficiency at least. The malt pipe has a constricting and compacting effect which BIAB brewers wouldnt experience. I mostly only do a 2L sparge and that gets me on averge 72 ish efficiency. I then sparge it again in a bucket and keep that sparge for starters. It usually measures ~1030 so there is still a lot of sugars left in it even after the 2L sparge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I get an extra 3 or 4 points with a light, 1L sparge using a Crown Urn. I've only just started doing it though and got on fine for many years without. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Time is a big factor. I have only done a few brews with my Grainfather. Each has had a sparge of at least 5L and up to 10L. I used a one litre jug to start with, gently trickling in the sparge water. Felt like at least half an hour or so to get finished. I have now added a ball valve tap to my sparge pot, heat it above the GF, then use gravity and tap adjustment to get the right sparge rate. Does not make it much faster, I can just do other things while it sparges away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) It's just a trade off really: Extra time and hassle required for sparging and getting the most out of your grain vs a somewhat quicker no-sparge brew day with a subsequent reduction in efficiency. Some simply compensate for the efficiency loss by just using a little more grain. Grain is cheap so I guess it just depends what $ value you put on the time saved! Edited October 1, 2019 by BlackSands 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 For what it's worth, sparging adds no time for me. I take the grains right out and sparge over a separate vessel while the main pot comes up to heat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said: I have now added a ball valve tap to my sparge pot Do you have the Grainfather sparge water heater. I was going to look at adding a ball valve tap to mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, Beer Baron said: Do you have the Grainfather sparge water heater. I was going to look at adding a ball valve tap to mine Nah. Just the Big W 20L $20 pot. I would have thought you could remove the existing tap from the GF sparge water heater and fit a ball valve like @King Ruddager did with his urn in a video ages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said: Nah. Just the Big W 20L $20 pot. I would have thought you could remove the existing tap from the GF sparge water heater and fit a ball valve like @King Ruddager did with his urn in a video ages ago. Yeah I’m sure I can. I’ve just gotta get off my fat lazy backside and do it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, King Ruddager said: For what it's worth, sparging adds no time for me. I take the grains right out and sparge over a separate vessel while the main pot comes up to heat. I see in your videos you usually just boil a jug of water and pour that over your grain, which is what I used to do with my 2.5kg mashes, but for many AG brewers when doing a full sparge they're having to heat quite a lot of water and then, by whatever system they use, allow that to run steadily through their mash, and that can be quite a slow process. Sometimes the sparge can even get stuck! I think the way you do it is quite a good compromise actually. Edited October 1, 2019 by BlackSands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I might try it on my next batch and see if it makes a difference. I'll hoist the bag, let it drain for a bit then pour a kettle worth of hot water over it, drain until it's dripping then squeeze as normal. Up until now I haven't bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I might try it on my next batch and see if it makes a difference. I'll hoist the bag, let it drain for a bit then pour a kettle worth of hot water over it, drain until it's dripping then squeeze as normal. Up until now I haven't bothered. I’d be i interested in what findings you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Up until now I haven't bothered. I do a bucket in bucket sparge thing with my biab. Always have. Not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I might try it on my next batch and see if it makes a difference. I'll hoist the bag, let it drain for a bit then pour a kettle worth of hot water over it, drain until it's dripping then squeeze as normal. Up until now I haven't bothered. I do that but put bag over another pot, but no squeeze as I believe it introduces minor tannic taste. I do sparge 3L because I cannot mash a 23L FV yield with my 31L starting water which rises to 36L mark with 5kg of BIABed grain. If I had the ability, a-la-Crown Urn 40L, I would not sparge, and simply add a grain weight to get my desired OG. But now that I'm kegging 18L plus a couple bottles from each batch, I could reduce or eliminate the sparge. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 That's all I've been doing, the bold section. I'm just interested to see if tipping some water over the bag as it hangs up makes any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: That's all I've been doing, the bold section. I'm just interested to see if tipping some water over the bag as it hangs up makes any difference. It would definitely make a difference as you would extract a little more of the sugars in the grain. But the question is whether it is worth the hassle vs a handful of extra grain. If brewing commercial quantities for profit then the answer would be yes. In the home brew environment it may not be. Sometimes when you have your system figured out and consistently hit your desired numbers it is easier to just run with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 For me it seems worth it, not because savings, but because results! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) By all means sparge if you have to because of mash vessel volume limitations or just find it fun. Otherwise there's not a great deal of point, particularly with BIAB. Yes you can get a noticeable efficiency increase by sparging, because your wort lost to grain absorption and dead space is a lower gravity. With BIAB there is no dead space so the efficiency gains are lower than they are with 3V, but you are still diluting the wort lost to grain absorption. To maximise efficiency with a BIAB dunk sparge you would mash in with half your pre-boil volume plus what you will lose to grain absorption. You would then dunk sparge in a separate vessel with the remaining half of your pre-boil volume then combine the two runnings to boil. Anyway, sparge if you need or want to. I intentionally use an oversized mash tun so I don't need to, and it's not that much fun that I find myself wanting to. Cheers, John Edited October 2, 2019 by porschemad911 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Yeah I don't know what difference it will make on my setup. I mean, at the moment everything is geared around not sparging so the only real difference it might make is getting a couple of extra SG points. I'll probably try it just to see what happens but I don't think it will become a regular process. Currently I don't have a bucket wide enough to fit the grain bag to do a dunk sparge. But yeah at the end of the day the gains probably aren't enough for the effort with full BIAB brewing. I'm just curious more than anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I guess if you're really keen you could sparge with a large volume of water and use the 2nd runnings for a nice light 'lawnmower' beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, BlackSands said: I guess if you're really keen you could sparge with a large volume of water and use the 2nd runnings for a nice light 'lawnmower' beer. This works well, but if you run the numbers on this, you need to start with a pretty high OG beer or top up with malt extract / extra grain and re-mash prior to running off for the small beer. Cheers, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, porschemad911 said: This works well, but if you run the numbers on this, you need to start with a pretty high OG beer or top up with malt extract / extra grain and re-mash prior to running off for the small beer. Cheers, John True, though I guess you could also just do a 1/2 batch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, BlackSands said: True, though I guess you could also just do a 1/2 batch. Yep, last time I did this I used a combination of techniques. I topped up the grain bill and re-mashed before running off for basically a 2/3 size batch. That was mostly due to a combination of target OG for the small beer and limitations with my available fermenter size. However, running the numbers again, if I did a 1.080 OG first runnings beer and a full-size batch of small second runnings beer, it would come in at around 1.027 OG. So pretty good for drinking by the litre after mowing the lawn! Cheers, John Edited October 3, 2019 by porschemad911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Out of interest, here's a parti-gyle stout (2.4%ABV) brewed from grain left over from a no-sparge BIAB IPA: http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/15/short-shoddy-irish-stout/ "...this beer was right inline with what I expect from an easy-drinking Irish Stout, though there’s just something about a slightly higher ABV that I missed." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 7:56 AM, Otto Von Blotto said: I'll probably try it just to see what happens So have you had a chance yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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