How much grain

[Aussiekraut]

Just as a matter of interest, how much grain would be needed to get the equivalent to a 1.7kg liquid malt can? I'm using a BR malt blend to add to my dark ale but the stuff isn't always easy to come by. So I was thinking that when push came to shove, I could go for  a partial mash, adding the grains I need. A tad more effort but probably rather rewarding  However I wouldn't have a clue how much to use to get to where I need to get to.

I'm sure you all grain demi gods out there have an answer to this.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Probably about 2.5kg or thereabouts.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

Depends on your efficiency. When i do partials i work on 2kgs grain for the unhopped 1.5kg cans at 75% efficiency. 

[Aussiekraut]

Thanks guys.

Now efficiency will throw a spanner in the works though as it isn't known beforehand. At 70% efficiency I'll get a very different result than at 80%, with the latter resulting in more sugars. I take it this is a little trial and error to get things right in the end. Maybe dissolving a can of malt in let's say 10l of water and taking an SG reading should give me an idea and when doing a 10l mash, compare SG readings to see where things are heading will help?

Sorry, I'm talking out of my arse here I guess. Just trying to get my head around a few things.

[Otto Von Blotto]

A 1.7kg kit in 10 litres would be about 1.051-52 SG. So maybe aim for that with the grain mash - post boil of course. 

[BlackSands]

I brew this way most of the time.   Depending on the beer I'm brewing I'm using between 2kg - 2.5kg.  And yes, efficiency impacts on the final result - but it's only affecting 50% of your total fermentables of course.   My usual BIAB efficiency seems to be around 65% but my latest brew ended with a pre-boil SG quite a bit higher than expected - efficiency was more up around 75% on this occasion.  In terms of the impact on final ABV  - it is the difference between an expected 5.2% and 5.6%.  Not really a big deal.  

It is more effort - mine take about 3 - 3.5 hours but it does offer you all the benefits of AG brewing without the capital outlay, space and plumbing requirements as it can all be done on the stove top.   I found 30 minutes boils seem to be enough and certainly if you're using a kit as a base then much of the bittering is already done for you in the can so any hop additions will likely be more focused on flavour and aroma.   

Personally I think this is a great way to brew.  Kind of a 'best of both worlds' approach well suited to those with budget and space constraints, and with results that are on a par with AG.  It's a step up from kits and extract but less critical than AG - with partials because you've got that 50% extract that kind of buffers any shortcomings you may have with your mash etc.  As mentioned, you can get away with shorter boils and it's much quicker and hence less energy-consuming to bring 10 litres of wort to a boil compared to a full vol AG boil.  Handling 2.5kg of wet grain is also much easier than managing 5kgs of fully soaked grain too.   So, the same kind of rewards as AG,  you feel more like you're brewing this way and it can all be done in the kitchen.    

  

 

 

     

Edited September 9, 2019 by BlackSands

[King Ruddager]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

Now efficiency will throw a spanner in the works though as it isn't known beforehand

It's not too hard to be consistent, so once you're able to retrospectively calculate it from your first attempt you'll know how much to use from then on

[porschemad911]

It all depends... 

On my 2V system and with my no-sparge / 60 min boil process it would be around 2.8kg grain using Palmer's conservative 85% yield estimate (pretty close to what I typically observe) and taking into account expected lautering loss, boil-off and post-boil losses.

If I switched to a batch sparge with roughly equal runnings it would only take around 2.5kg grain. 

It also doesn't scale linearly because of the higher gravity of the losses. For example it would take me 6.8kg grain to replace 2 x 1.7kg tins with my standard no-sparge / 60 min boil process. With an optimal batch sparge, that would come down to 5.9kg grain. 

Cheers, 

John 

Edited September 9, 2019 by porschemad911