Beginners question

[Wyld]

Hey all, 

I have searched the forum but can't find an answer to a discussion a mate and I are having. 

Can someone tell me why we have to add the 1.7kg can to hot water with the mixed sugars etc and then add cool water to get to temp before adding yeast. 

I could be wrong, often are says the Mrs, but thought why not just add the can to an already stable temp'd fermenter, mix and then add the yeast. Yeast is added at the same temp it will ferment at for the next week or so before bottling.

If anyone could shed some light I'd be grateful.  As you can tell, absolute newbie. 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Wyld
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[Malter White]

14 minutes ago, Wyld said:

Hey all, 

I have searched the forum but can't find an answer to a discussion a mate and I are having. 

Can someone tell me why we have to add the 1.7kg can to hot water with the mixed sugars etc and then add cool water to get to temp before adding yeast. 

I could be wrong, often are says the Mrs, but thought why not just add the can to an already stable temp'd fermenter, mix and then add the yeast. Yeast is added at the same temp it will ferment at for the next week or so before bottling.

If anyone could shed some light I'd be grateful.  As you can tell, absolute newbie. 

 

Hi Wyld.
The can of extract is quite thick and gooey. I doubt you could mix it well enough in cold water. You could try but I think you'd end up with an inconsistent mix. I imagine this would lead to either a very weak beer or it might take ages for the yeast to eat through it.
It's like dissolving honey in a cup of tea. You could possibly do it in a cold cuppa but hot tea is the go.

Edited August 22, 2019 by MUZZY

[Lab Cat]

As above. You need hot water to break down the syrupy contents so they mix evenly. Not only might it create sugary pockets that make it hard work for the yeast to ferment, but your original gravity reading will be useless. This reading is your start point to give you a guide to when fermentation is finished and gives you your final alcohol level.

It's also important to thoroughly warm the cans, to make pouring them into the fermenter easier. Then adding hot water to the can to ensure you get all the concentrate out. If you leave anything in the can, you leave flavour out of your beer.

[Malter White]

3 minutes ago, Lab Rat said:

As above. You need hot water to break down the syrupy contents so they mix evenly. Not only might it create sugary pockets that make it hard work for the yeast to ferment, but your original gravity reading will be useless. This reading is your start point to give you a guide to when fermentation is finished and gives you your final alcohol level.

It's also important to thoroughly warm the cans, to make pouring them into the fermenter easier. Then adding hot water to the can to ensure you get all the concentrate out. If you leave anything in the can, you leave flavour out of your beer.

Hi Lab Rat.
While I agree with extracting all the extract (hee hee), I found warming the cans a bit of a waste of time. I just scoop them out into my fermenter and what I can't scoop out I just rinse out with hot water and pour into the fermenter. Obviously the amount and temperature of the hot water varies depending on what time of year it is.

[Lab Cat]

Everyone has different preferred methods. I like to warm the can because I can (he he) while I'm sanitising. I find it pours easier and helps with the mixing process.

[Wyld]

Hey thanks all.  Heat the can and it pours out well. Seems to mix well and fermenting goes ok within time frames. Nothing seems unusual but then being only my second brew who knows. 

Maybe instructions are there for a reason. Might run a consecutive brew and see what the difference is.  We did the right thing on my mates brew but his temps have varied but we both notice the colour difference in the fermenters. 

Smelled ok but we didn't taste test the first before bottling.  Hey it's all a learning curve lol. 

Thanks again

[Wyld]

Oh sorry the temp of the water I mix the can in is around 21c. So it's not cold cold just at temp I want the yeast to be rehydrated at and the whole mix to be fermenting at. 

[Malter White]

3 minutes ago, Wyld said:

Oh sorry the temp of the water I mix the can in is around 21c. So it's not cold cold just at temp I want the yeast to be rehydrated at and the whole mix to be fermenting at. 

21 is an ideal ferment temp for most cans but if 21 is your starting temp before combining all ingredients it would make it very difficult to dissolve the sugar/malt/extract.
Happy brewing.

[Otto Von Blotto]

One advantage of extract is that you don't really need to measure the OG, it can easily be calculated and pretty accurately. A standard kit and kilo of extra fermentables in 23 litres will always be around 1.038-39 OG. 

[Smash]

Would IBU's change if we add boiling water to a hopped extract and let it sit to break down so we can mix? 

[Marty_G]

100% you can mix the extract in tap temp water but should you? My answer is probably not particularly if you are using liquid malts as well ...  there are some advantages to mixing in warm to hot water ... yep you don't need to but for mine it makes a better brew ... 

[Otto Von Blotto]

18 minutes ago, Smash said:

Would IBU's change if we add boiling water to a hopped extract and let it sit to break down so we can mix? 

Probably but I doubt you'd notice a difference at the glass.

[DonPolo]

Coopers say that the ideal temperature for most of their brews is 21-27C. Certainly is for my current APA. Saw the temperature rising a bit to around 22 this morning so I added cold water to the sink.. It's currently sitting at a tick under 16C although over time it will probably heat up. Any issues with fermenting an APA at that temp?

[Marty_G]

9 minutes ago, DonPolo said:

Coopers say that the ideal temperature for most of their brews is 21-27C. Certainly is for my current APA. Saw the temperature rising a bit to around 22 this morning so I added cold water to the sink.. It's currently sitting at a tick under 16C although over time it will probably heat up. Any issues with fermenting an APA at that temp?

The only issue will be a possible impact on the quality of the beer ...  to get consistent quality of taste controlled temp is the key ... sure you can brew without temp control but compared to temp controlled brewing the flavour profiles are just not as clean as setting and maintaining a +/- 0.2 degree range in the temp ...  also you can set temps to get desired results from the yeasts .... with ales if you want clean crisp taste set the temp lower in the ideal range but if you want fruitier tastes set it higher in the temp range ... 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by MartyG1525230263

[MitchellScott]

12 minutes ago, DonPolo said:

Coopers say that the ideal temperature for most of their brews is 21-27C. Certainly is for my current APA. Saw the temperature rising a bit to around 22 this morning so I added cold water to the sink.. It's currently sitting at a tick under 16C although over time it will probably heat up. Any issues with fermenting an APA at that temp?

Should be fine.

The Coopers kit yeast sold with the APA tin is a Ale/Lager hybrid so will happily ferment at slightly lower temps. Most people agree that 18C is about the right temp for most ale yeasts to ferment at.
If the temp gets too low the yeast may go dormant. This is a better option then it getting too hot. Once the temp comes back up it should begin fermenting again but some of the yeast may have flocculated when the temp dropped down so sometimes a gentle stir is necessary to get the yeast back into suspension. This is not always necessary though. When it gets too hot the yeast will release esters and flavours that aren't very nice.

Mitch.

[Lab Cat]

3 hours ago, DonPolo said:

Coopers say that the ideal temperature for most of their brews is 21-27C. Certainly is for my current APA. Saw the temperature rising a bit to around 22 this morning so I added cold water to the sink.. It's currently sitting at a tick under 16C although over time it will probably heat up. Any issues with fermenting an APA at that temp?

It'll work. I did about 7-8 brews without temp control when I started, like most people probably do. Most fluctuated between 22-26C. Beer was fine.

But if you brew the same beer at different time of the year, the yeast will react differently and the flavour profile will probably change from batch to batch.

[PeterC1525230181]

For the 'craft' fermenter size (8.5-11L) Coopers recipes often say to just dump everything in and leave it to the yeast to get everything mixed up. I was a bit wary of having thick syrup at the bottom, not much more than water on top and yeast sprinkled dry on that but it worked just fine. The sugar dissolved enough and the yeast settled enough to find each other in spite of a density gradient. Plenty of bubbling happened. Gradually the dark syrup layer got smaller and disappeared and a few days after that the final gravity was stable and fermentation had ended. 

I reckon you could dump everything in, even in the larger fermenter (which I don't have any experience of), without any more mixing than happens from sloshing in the ingredients and it would work out fine. 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by PeterC1525230181

[MitchellScott]

48 minutes ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

For the 'craft' fermenter size (8.5-11L) Coopers recipes often say to just dump everything in and leave it to the yeast to get everything mixed up. I was a bit wary of having thick syrup at the bottom, not much more than water on top and yeast sprinkled dry on that but it worked just fine. The sugar dissolved enough and the yeast settled enough to find each other in spite of a density gradient. Plenty of bubbling happened. Gradually the dark syrup layer got smaller and disappeared and a few days after that the final gravity was stable and fermentation had ended. 

I reckon you could dump everything in, even in the larger fermenter (which I don't have any experience of), without any more mixing than happens from sloshing in the ingredients and it would work out fine. 

 

Yes it probably would.

However, adding oxygen into the wort before adding yeast is beneficial to a healthy fermentation. The easiest way to add some oxygen is when mixing the ingredients with a paddle/spoon.

Mitch.

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

I reckon you could dump everything in, even in the larger fermenter (which I don't have any experience of), without any more mixing than happens from sloshing in the ingredients and it would work out fine. 

There is no doubt that it works that is not really what is at question,  the question is more like, should you?   It like you this question, can you make beer with a super cheap can of Woolies brand draught extract, 1kg of cane sugar, simple brewers yeast and the daily fluctuations of ambient temperature.  The answer is 100% you will get beer but should you do it that way, is there not a better way and the answer is yes.  Same as there is a better way than just dumping it all in an FV and not mixing it. 

[Wyld]

Oh no doubt I mix it. Great answers, thanks all. There's a bit more to it than the 4 steps lol, that's for sure. I love learning though. 

[Marty_G]

22 minutes ago, Wyld said:

I love learning though. 

and this is the place to learn .... i have been on many different brewing forums and this is the best by a long shot ... a great core group of contributors with varying experience who all know heaps ... i doubt there is a question that can't be answered  no matter what the topic ... be it Kits and Klios, yeasts, water chemistry,  all grain brewing,  ferment temperatures, bottling, kegging, hopping you name it there is someone who will know the answer ...