Temperature for Hefe Wheat yeast from can?

[PeterC1525230181]

Hi,

I am trying something out based on the Coopers Preacher's Hefe Wheat beer can using and the yeast from under the lid. It is listed by Coopers as 'Wheat yeast', not the same as the ale and/or lager yeasts provided with other cans. The can says to ferment at 21-27 degrees. I don't have the means to control temperature other than by putting the fermenter somewhere warmer or cooler.  My last brew was a consistent 14 degrees sitting in our laundry and it did OK but it was a kit ale plus lager mix so probably happy across a wide range.

I'd get daily fluctuations from 14 to 19 in one part of the house. In another area I'd get 14 to over 20 during the afternoon if it is sunny (I'd cover the fermenter to keep it dark). 

So, should I give it consistent 14 degrees or fluctuating a bit but and moving it about to wherever is warmest?  Put another way, does this wheat yeast really want to be warm or is this instruction on the can to move things along quickly and it would be OK or perhaps even better to keep it cooler? 

Or, if the wheat yeast really wants >21oC warm, should I also throw in a leftover yeast sachet of ale+lager from a craft tin to make sure something will grow and ferment? 

 

BTW. What I am trying is the 1.7kg Preacher's tin + a 250g sachet of pale unhopped liquid malt + 12g of Hallertau hop tea made up to 10L in the craft fermenter. Thinking of something half-toucanish. 

[Pezzza]

5 hours ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

Hi,

I am trying something out based on the Coopers Preacher's Hefe Wheat beer can using and the yeast from under the lid. It is listed by Coopers as 'Wheat yeast', not the same as the ale and/or lager yeasts provided with other cans. The can says to ferment at 21-27 degrees. I don't have the means to control temperature other than by putting the fermenter somewhere warmer or cooler.  My last brew was a consistent 14 degrees sitting in our laundry and it did OK but it was a kit ale plus lager mix so probably happy across a wide range.

I'd get daily fluctuations from 14 to 19 in one part of the house. In another area I'd get 14 to over 20 during the afternoon if it is sunny (I'd cover the fermenter to keep it dark). 

So, should I give it consistent 14 degrees or fluctuating a bit but and moving it about to wherever is warmest?  Put another way, does this wheat yeast really want to be warm or is this instruction on the can to move things along quickly and it would be OK or perhaps even better to keep it cooler? 

Or, if the wheat yeast really wants >21oC warm, should I also throw in a leftover yeast sachet of ale+lager from a craft tin to make sure something will grow and ferment? 

 

BTW. What I am trying is the 1.7kg Preacher's tin + a 250g sachet of pale unhopped liquid malt + 12g of Hallertau hop tea made up to 10L in the craft fermenter. Thinking of something half-toucanish. 

Hey there Peter,

I brewed a cracking brew off the Coops Hefe Wheat a while ago... used another can of Coops Wheat Malt as well... in 23L plus a little malt and some extra hops. Was more a Weizenbok in the end.   But I DID do it in Summer... I think it was around 22-24 in my larder at the time.

My advice would be to stash that splendid Wheatie in the cupboard for the time being and go something like Coopers Golden Crown Lager as it is happy at cooler temps and best at least below 18 and closer to 12 deg C... 

The other easy way is buy a temp controller for like $45 off Amazon eg the pretty robust and easy to use Inkbird… a quality glass hydrometer so you know exactly where you are at for start and finish... and a heat belt (I did this - was convenient but think the Mangrove Jack heat belt is poor quality... I do still use it but am not impressed)…  you might find a better heating product somewhere.  See my order from a while back further below - no friend of Amazon - just was cost-effective and quick for me out in the bush.

I am using a cheap leccy blankie for keeping my secondary ferment going - off a temp controller... but it is lying nice and flat...  safety first... I do have another plate warmer that is more robust but it was more expensive and I needed something quick.. 

 

But honestly - controlling your temp is the first step to easier brewing and better results.

And if you have around 14deg C that would be perfect I think for the Coopers Golden Crown - and use the liquid malt and the Hop Tea in that ?!

But if everything is all mixed and pitched and waiting to go... just get it into the warmest part of the house.... brewers even recommend using a hot water bottle...

and try to keep it warm.

Saying that... I took a yeast sample from that big fat Hefeweizen I did... which I bottled a tad early (hence my recommendation for a  good quality glass hydro)...

And some of the yeast is still in the fridge in a jar... the fridge being at 2 deg C... and every time I open the jar - there is a puff of CO2 ie the yeast is still plugging away.

So it is alive alive ho... but the result you get and how long it will take may be affected.... and the longer you run the more likely the chance of infection as well.

 

 

[Pezzza]

Here is a pic of my TC Hefeweizen (which turned into a bit of a Weizenbock in the end) from earlier in the year... 

There was a thread Thomas Coopers Wheat Can Yeast with some stuff which might be relevant too..

Seems so long since it has been green in the paddock... mmmm

 

 

[PeterC1525230181]

I did go ahead with the wheat yeast but I think I'll take your suggestion to try the golden crown lager next. The current brew stayed at 18 degrees overnight with a jumper thrown over the fermentation vessel while the room got to 14, so I think I'll be able to keep it at 18 from now on. I found this site: http://brulosophy.com/projects/exbeeriments/ which has some interesting 'exbeeriments' done with good, rigorous methodology, including confidence testing. One http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/21/fermentation-temperature-pt-9-wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast/ tested whether a particular wheat yeast (which may or may not be the same or similar to the Coopers one) gave a detectable difference when fermented at 16 degrees vs 22. While there was a reliably perceptible difference in taste from fermentation at the two temperatures, the tasters were evenly split on which they preferred. Cooler favoured spicy/clove flavours while warmer favoured fruity/banana. I'd probably prefer the former so I am reasonably reassured and optimistic. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

Hey @PeterC1525230181, let us know how yours goes.

Cheers Shamus

[Pezzza]

9 hours ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

I did go ahead with the wheat yeast but I think I'll take your suggestion to try the golden crown lager next. The current brew stayed at 18 degrees overnight with a jumper thrown over the fermentation vessel while the room got to 14, so I think I'll be able to keep it at 18 from now on. I found this site: http://brulosophy.com/projects/exbeeriments/ which has some interesting 'exbeeriments' done with good, rigorous methodology, including confidence testing. One http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/21/fermentation-temperature-pt-9-wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast/ tested whether a particular wheat yeast (which may or may not be the same or similar to the Coopers one) gave a detectable difference when fermented at 16 degrees vs 22. While there was a reliably perceptible difference in taste from fermentation at the two temperatures, the tasters were evenly split on which they preferred. Cooler favoured spicy/clove flavours while warmer favoured fruity/banana. I'd probably prefer the former so I am reasonably reassured and optimistic. 

Cool Peter.  Yeah there are some guns on this site regarding yeast and what they do.... think they reckoned to get the clove and banana you need to get up around 25 deg C - see if you can find your way back - think it was a combo if input by Greeny, Hairy and Lusty - in that Thomas Coopers Hefe Wheat I mentioned earlier... I am a bit ordinary at being able to direct people around the site... 

Hey Pete - jump across to this one:

a few guys are discussing over there... including der kleine Drache who is trying to emulate some good wheat beer qualities... 

 

Hairy notes:

I have made a couple with Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen.

One was fermented around 23 degrees - way too much banana.

The other around 19-20 degrees was really nice.

Best jump across over there - there is some good stuff going on.... funnily enough - on a post that began in 2016 and ran for only a couple of posts and now is back up and cranking?!

 

Thomas Coopers Preacher's Hefe Wheat

By Someguy, March 9, 2016 in DIY Brewing Blether

 

 

 

 

[Pezzza]

9 hours ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

I did go ahead with the wheat yeast but I think I'll take your suggestion to try the golden crown lager next. The current brew stayed at 18 degrees overnight with a jumper thrown over the fermentation vessel while the room got to 14, so I think I'll be able to keep it at 18 from now on. I found this site: http://brulosophy.com/projects/exbeeriments/ which has some interesting 'exbeeriments' done with good, rigorous methodology, including confidence testing. One http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/21/fermentation-temperature-pt-9-wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast/ tested whether a particular wheat yeast (which may or may not be the same or similar to the Coopers one) gave a detectable difference when fermented at 16 degrees vs 22. While there was a reliably perceptible difference in taste from fermentation at the two temperatures, the tasters were evenly split on which they preferred. Cooler favoured spicy/clove flavours while warmer favoured fruity/banana. I'd probably prefer the former so I am reasonably reassured and optimistic. 

I reckon you should be ok at 18 yep but don't go lower if you can avoid it ; )

[Pezzza]

And here are some earlier reasonable threads for a look...

If you stick the word "Preacher" in... and then add by author... stick Bearded Burbler in...

you should find your way there Peter - I think it might help... the good Brewers providing advice on Wheat...

 

[PeterC1525230181]

On 7/15/2019 at 11:48 AM, PeterC1525230181 said:

I did go ahead with the wheat yeast but I think I'll take your suggestion to try the golden crown lager next. The current brew stayed at 18 degrees overnight with a jumper thrown over the fermentation vessel while the room got to 14, so I think I'll be able to keep it at 18 from now on. I found this site: http://brulosophy.com/projects/exbeeriments/ which has some interesting 'exbeeriments' done with good, rigorous methodology, including confidence testing. One http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/21/fermentation-temperature-pt-9-wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast/ tested whether a particular wheat yeast (which may or may not be the same or similar to the Coopers one) gave a detectable difference when fermented at 16 degrees vs 22. While there was a reliably perceptible difference in taste from fermentation at the two temperatures, the tasters were evenly split on which they preferred. Cooler favoured spicy/clove flavours while warmer favoured fruity/banana. I'd probably prefer the former so I am reasonably reassured and optimistic. 

So, reporting back. To recap, I did the 1.7kg Preacher's tin + a 250g sachet of pale unhopped liquid malt + 12g of Hallertau hop tea made up to 10L in the craft fermenter. I brewed at 18 degrees with the yeast from the can.

I have just opened the first bottle after 2 weeks. I think it has worked out pretty well. For comparison I bought two different commercial german imported hefe weisen beers to try since I was unfamiliar with the style. They were very similar to each other but I did not like them very much. Their banana/clove flavour with sweetness was a bit over the top and cloying to my taste. I like this home-brew much better. The same banana/clove flavour is distinctly present along with some sweetness, qualitatively like the commercial examples but not so much in your face, just enough to be interesting rather than unpleasant. All in all, I am pleased with how this worked out. 

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

So, reporting back. To recap, I did the 1.7kg Preacher's tin + a 250g sachet of pale unhopped liquid malt + 12g of Hallertau hop tea made up to 10L in the craft fermenter. I brewed at 18 degrees with the yeast from the can.

I have just opened the first bottle after 2 weeks. I think it has worked out pretty well. For comparison I bought two different commercial german imported hefe weisen beers to try since I was unfamiliar with the style. They were very similar to each other but I did not like them very much. Their banana/clove flavour with sweetness was a bit over the top and cloying to my taste. I like this home-brew much better. The same banana/clove flavour is distinctly present along with some sweetness, qualitatively like the commercial examples but not so much in your face, just enough to be interesting rather than unpleasant. All in all, I am pleased with how this worked out. 

Gold Peter.  Well done - sounds great.  Excellent outcome.

What were your German Hefeweizen reference points?  I am a believer in Franziskaner Hefeweizen as a good benchmark myself.  

Really good that your own brew came up on top - And you should have a few more bottles of those ; )

 

Got my first AG Hefeweizen in the FV right now at 17degC - new temp for me too... this is after me saying Wo... don't go below 18 deg earlier hey ;

Also using fancy schmancy Liquid Yeast Wyeast 3068 which seems to be the thing for Bavarian Wheat Beers... 

Mashing the wheat in the AG process was a bit troublesome... will have to change things in future.

Hopefully the nice aromas being generated by the fermenting brew are a good sign of things to come.

 

[PeterC1525230181]

7 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

What were your German Hefeweizen reference points? 

One was Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier. I can't remember what the other one was but it tasted nearly identical.

[Pezzza]

8 minutes ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

One was Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier. I can't remember what the other one was but it tasted nearly identical.

Cheers Peter.

Well I know one feller @PaddyBrew2 who won't agree with you that Paulaner Hefeweizen don't taste so nice... think you were slurping on some just recently - on the Paulaner Paddy were you not and you seemed quite happy with it all?  Anyway - all good Peter - just joshing - it is all a matter or personal taste.  And gold that you like your OWN BREW more!

I think that Erdinger is also v nice... 

 

But I am hoping that Blue Mountains Weizen is going to OUTSHINE them all if I can finish it off nicely ; )

Or should we not be selecting baby names before it has been hatched? 

 

[PaddyBrew2]

Love the  Paulaner i does.  

[Pezzza]

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 11:48 AM, PeterC1525230181 said:

I did go ahead with the wheat yeast but I think I'll take your suggestion to try the golden crown lager next.

If you do Peter -  I would certainly recommend considering introducing some  more liquid malt... rather than adding dry stuff - better results re head retention and mouth-feel.

[Pezzza]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:48 PM, PaddyBrew2 said:

Love the  Paulaner i does.  

Had a few lovely Erdingers on Sunday arvo - will post pic in that wadjadrinkin thread when get a chance...  you had the Erdinger Paddly?

[PeterC1525230181]

52 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

If you do Peter -  I would certainly recommend considering introducing some  more liquid malt... rather than adding dry stuff - better results re head retention and mouth-feel.

Thanks. I now have a 1.7kg can of Euro lager fermenting at 8.5L with just the can yeast. In effect, I think this is like adding extra liquid malt. I intend to just dry hop with 45g Cascade. The reason is that doing exactly this with a Real Ale worked well except for the bitterness being about as high as I would like. Earlier the Euro lager with less of a different hops had been good with satisfactory bitterness but for not enough hops aroma. 

Next I was thinking of doing a half batch of this recipe: https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/light-german-bock.html although that uses the dry malt.

[PaddyBrew2]

1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Had a few lovely Erdingers on Sunday arvo - will post pic in that wadjadrinkin thread when get a chance...  you had the Erdinger Paddly?

A great drop mate 

[Pezzza]

Right - yes - the smaller vol FV.

And some dry hopping as well - cooooool Pete.

Sounds good - look forward to learning of the result!

Your Bock Recipe - I spent some time in Hannover - where I lived there was a connection with Einbeck brewery - and they had hell-bock and dunkel-bock - this looks like a hell-bock.

I would recommend subbing the LDME for liquid if you can... the difference will be a marked improvement in head retention and mouthfeel... 

Anyway - you could prove me wrong and show your recipe to be just fine - and then brew the next one with Liquid Malt and see what the difference is?

[Pezzza]

20 hours ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

Next I was thinking of doing a half batch of this recipe: https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/light-german-bock.html although that uses the dry malt.

Hey Peter, this one might also be worth looking at - tho probably designed for the bigger FVs...

[Pezzza]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:48 PM, PaddyBrew2 said:

Love the  Paulaner i does.  

When it looks like this Paddy how could one not love a Paulaner Weissbier… I was just looking up a Maltster in Heidelberg in Germany - and one of their customers is Paulaner and when I saw this pic I thought you would appreciate @PaddyBrew2 ; )