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MartyG1525230263

Best temp at which to pitch the liquid Urquell 2001 yeast

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Posted (edited)

 Hi brains trust ... I have the Urquell 2001 yeast ... it is the 1st time using it and comes in a liquid so I have broken the nutrient pack as per the instructions and the yeast is sitting going through some growth ... seeing as I have done the starter what is the best temp to pitch the yeast at and also do the ferment ... was going to ferment at 11 degrees ...  @Otto Von Blotto you have used this before what would you do ... obviously I am doing a pilsner ...  should i pitch at ferment or do it higher and ramp the FV tem down ... right now the FV is in the ferment fridge sitting at a stable 20 degrees ... cheers and thanks for the help ... 

Edited by MartyG1525230263

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I'd probably start it warmer, 20 is fine. Without an actual starter i.e. a few litres of wort in which to grow more yeast, you probably don't have enough cells to be able to pitch it at ferment temp. 

It can take a bit to get going so I'd probably start bringing it down after 24 hours. 

 

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where can you find Pilsner Urquell yeast? I'd try this the next time I do a pils. I've looked and only found OS suppliers. Would also be looking at dry if buying online.

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Posted (edited)

You can't get it dry. But if you're quick, Craftbrewer has it at the moment. It used to be a regular product but Wyeast relegated it to a seasonal release strain 🤨 The 2278 strain I'm currently using is also an Urquell strain (D), which probably explains its similarities to 2001.

https://www.craftbrewer.com.au/wyeast-2001-urquell-lager-h-strain

Edited by Otto Von Blotto

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thanks Kelsey - any chance of getting something close to Urquell with it? My Pils have been fine, but very generic.

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32 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I'd probably start it warmer, 20 is fine. Without an actual starter i.e. a few litres of wort in which to grow more yeast, you probably don't have enough cells to be able to pitch it at ferment temp. 

It can take a bit to get going so I'd probably start bringing it down after 24 hours. 

 

Thanks Kelsey, you are 100% the oracle for all things lager ...  as I am not time poor on brew was thinking of just letting it ferment out or is the DA rest regime essential ...  

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3 hours ago, Lab Rat said:

thanks Kelsey - any chance of getting something close to Urquell with it? My Pils have been fine, but very generic.

Definitely if the malt and hops side of the recipe is right. Mine wasn't designed as a clone but from doing a few side by side tests over the years with the real thing, it does get pretty close.

3 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Thanks Kelsey, you are 100% the oracle for all things lager ...  as I am not time poor on brew was thinking of just letting it ferment out or is the DA rest regime essential ...  

Depends on a few factors. Given the lowish pitch rate I would do one. The yeast will eventually clean up if left at ferment temp, but in the interests of also not leaving it on the yeast too long it's probably better to do a d-rest. 

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@Otto Von Blotto how long can it take before it gets started ... I pitched at 20 left it there for about 12hours then bought it done to 11 been sitting in FV now since Friday arvo and still no fermentation so have just bumped it up to 15 ...  I assume that this behaviour is normal ... it is an issue i have not had before the yeast I usually use 34/70 starts pretty quick ...  

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I've had it take up to two days to show any visible signs of activity. That's why I suggested leaving it at 20 for a day before dropping it. 

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3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I've had it take up to two days to show any visible signs of activity. That's why I suggested leaving it at 20 for a day before dropping it. 

Yep i figured that but was a tad impatient have now learnt  that it is better to wait  ... thanks for the info ...  I will leave it at the current temp until I get some activity then drop it ...  cheers 

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So after pitching very early of Friday afternoon, after letting the yeast sit for 3 hours on the supplied nutrient at 200 degrees  then letting it sit at 18 degrees for about 12 hours before lowering it to 11 degrees and having no action on Sunday and increase back to 18.5 of Sunday morning. I finally have some action ... it has dropped about 3 points since yesterday arvo so have set to 12 degrees and hopefully when I wake in the morning it has dropped further ... if i am lucky the yeast has been adding some great flavour over the last 72 hours while it has been multiplying ... this is a far cry from the ales i have been doing using generation after generation of  harvested US05 which has seen drops of nearly 10 points in 24 hours .... oh the joy of the lager process ... got to love it ...  low temp fermentation really is an art of its own ...  

 

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Yeah, that yeast is a bit of a slow starter but I always got great results from it. It goes along pretty well once it gets going though, so you can probably raise the temp back up to 18 on Saturday or Sunday. 

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11 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

so you can probably raise the temp back up to 18 on Saturday or Sunday. 

Thanks .... will keep an eye on it as it is still a bit sluggish ... it is going but it is in no rush ... I imagine during this phase it is pumping lots of flavour into the brew ... 

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glad i am not in a hurry with this yeast ... have been longing to use it since I found out it was a available and the test samples taste great but it has been slow and steady ... The OG may have been close to a tad high for it at 1056. After pitching took more than 72 hours for activity which was been a couple of points a day at 12 degrees then after about 6 days put it up to 13.5 with no real change. It just methodically fermented.  Yesterday, day 13 since pitching, it reached 1030 so upped it to D rest temps of 18 and is now at 1026 ... so 14 days after pitching it has dropped 30 points with by my calcs another 10 to go minimum  ... so should be ready to CC maybe Monday or Tuesday  ...  I have no doubt it will be worth it ....  one thing i did learn was i sould have followed Kelsey's advice and let it sit as 20 degrees in the FV for a day before dropping to ferment temp ... 

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That is really slow, probably because it was pitched with not enough to start with combined with not leaving it at 20 for long enough. Despite it being a bit of a slow starter, often taking 36-48 hours to show any visible signs, it always reached FG in 10 days or less when I used it. I'm keen to go back to it, but I'll run with the 2278 until it's available next time. 

At least next time you can pitch more by harvesting some from the fermenter. Lagers really should be pitched with a lot of yeast for best results. Doing this also allows for pitching at or below ferment temp, something which I also think produces better results than pitching less yeast at a warmer temp. 

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2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

At least next time you can pitch more by harvesting some from the fermenter.

100% the way that i am looking at it .... building a nice little yeast bank now ... bought some Nottingham as well so my next ale will be an English bitter and i think i will have about all I need .... W34/70, Urquell 2001 for lagers and US05, Liberty Bell M36 and Nottingham for Ales ...  

 

But I am 100% with you on the under pitch ... The threshold on the specs for high gravity is 1060 at 1056 I was obviously pushing it ...  anyway I am not concerned how long it takes. I have oodles of beer on tap and in bottles. This Pils when kegged will be sitting at the back of the fridge for a couple of months. I am toying with the idea of doing a secondary ferment with it in the keg. What are your thoughts on that Kelsey or is there no benefit to the beer bar increasing the ABV ? 

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I usually ignore what the package says anyway. There's only 100 billion cells in a smack pack, some of which would be dead anyway. A lager of that OG around 20 litres should really be pitched with somewhere around 400-450 billion cells. That's why I make starters to grow more yeast. I know the numbers spat out by the yeast calcs aren't precise but they're close enough that it works well. 

There are a few styles that benefit from the natural carbonation process in terms of flavour, but I don't think pilsner is one of them. I did bottle some a few years ago and I preferred them force carbed in a keg. 

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Well this Pilsner has been in the keg now for a couple of weeks and I know lagering is nowhere near finished but it is bloody terrible ... I had a sneaky taste after 3 or 4 days and it was disgusting, cloudy and just plain wrong in taste ... had a taste today and while it is better it is just wrong ... I am pretty sure it has to do with the under pitch of 2001 and the high OG which affected the time it took to get to FG which was the guts of 3 weeks ... I cold crashed for a week and been sitting in the fridge lagering now for 2 so I am going to turf it and start a fresh. the thing with lagers they take time and space so not willing to let it sit for another month and find it is still shite as it just does not taste right, the flavour profile is all wrong and cant taste the Saaz at all, it is hidden in a mishmash of the rubbish taste of acetaldehyde  

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Yup, definitely sounds like an underpitch problem. Pitch all of what you harvested into the next one, I reckon it'll be a hundred times better.

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@Otto Von Blotto ready to have another bash with this 2001 .... this time will be using the harvested yeast which looks like about 100g ... I will be using the 86 days Pilsner , some Saaz and 1kg of LDM ... so what is best, just pitch all I have at around 20 degrees and bring it  down to 10  .... or let it sit at 20 for 24 hours then bring it down to ferment temp ...  

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I'd try chilling it to 10 degrees first and then pitch it but if that's not possible then yeah just pitch it and start dropping it straight away. 

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8 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I'd try chilling it to 10 degrees first

Yep can do that... or at the minimum I can get the temp drop underway and pitch it tonight before I hit the sack will be down to around 15 by then ... 

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Probably better off getting the yeast in as quickly as possible, the longer it sits without it the more chance of nasties taking hold

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1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Probably better off getting the yeast in as quickly as possible,

Done, currently 20.5 had come down from 23. So pitched ~3 hours after putting in the FV fridge ... so all should be good as my sterilisation regime is pretty solid ...  thank for the help ... 

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