Jump to content
Coopers Community

CO2 Cylinder V Soda Stream: which way to go?


Marty_G

Recommended Posts

Ok brains trust I need some help. I have scored two 19 litre kegs and need to decide on two things: How to carbonate and how to dispense from keg to tap.

So 1st is carbonation there are 2 methods, secondary fermentation via bulk priming which will pressurise the kegs but it will need supplementary CO2 to maintain pressure once beer is being consumed. The second, force carbonation via CO2, either way will need CO2. So that brings me to my next decision how to deliver the C02 and again there is 2 options. Either refillable CO2 via 2.6 or 6kg cylinder or Soda stream. Both require regulators to that is not an issue. No matter what I do a regulator is on the shopping list. Now to eliminate the carbonation issue seeing I need CO2 I will force carbonate so that decision has been made. Now may last dilemma. Which bottle: Soda Stream or a CO2 Cylinder.

 

Ok let’s look at the Soda stream. Not the best for cash economy, have read that they get about 100 litres from a cylinder if used efficiently, but 100% the best for economy of space. I do not, a this stage, have a dedicated Keg fridge so I will be using a Pluto gun and share the beer fridge with kegs and bottles. CO2 Cylinders: the 2.6 kg is smaller than the 6kg and cheaper to refill but needs to be refilled more often. I have no idea how many kegs or litres of beer it will deliver before it runs out which is the same for the 6kg bottle which  obviously lasts longer but has a bigger cash hit when refilled.  

So now to my dilemma I need guidance from the brains trust on which is the best way to go. The Soda Stream is perfect for space but cost is an issue if every 3 months or so I need a new one but at around $20 buck for an exchange it is not so bad really. Works out at around $0.20/litre if I get 100 litres per cylinder. Now this is where I need more help how long does a 2.6kg and the 6kg cylinder last?

So knowing what you know which system would you advise a novice to get Soda Stream or CO2 cylinder?  … Or is this a viable option … getting both a soda stream cylinder and 2.6 or 6kg keg and using the the CO2 cylinder to carbonate the brew and the Soda stream to be the propellant. That way I have the luxury of space savings and the size and economy of the bigger cylinder to make Soda Stream more cost efficient. Or am I just over thinking this and those savings are negligible and it doesn’t really matter?

I have search through past topics on this and found some useful info but nothing this specific.

Thanks in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no preference either way, although I have an aluminium 1.8kg cylinder that cost me a fair bit back in the day (which reminds me it's time to get it recertified). I don't drink huge amounts, so it seemed like it lasted months and months.

All I will say is that before you buy you should talk to your LHBS about what cylinders they will refill, and personally I would avoid the swap and go type in case the business disappears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 6.8kg cylinder, and I find they last about 10-12 months before needing a refill. Normally I pay around $55-60 to swap it when it's empty. Not a huge cost when it's basically once a year. The bigger cost is the initial deposit. 

I use it for carbonating, maintaining carbonation/serving, as well as cleaning kegs and beer lines/taps. I could make it last longer by naturally carbonating the kegs but I prefer the flavour of force carbed. 

I've never counted the number of kegs it lasts for but with 18-20 batches a year plus the soda water being refilled around once a month or maybe more frequently, it's probably somewhere around 25-30 kegs per cylinder which is normal for that size from what I've read. 

If you've got the space to put it, I'd go that size. My reasoning behind it was that it would last longer than a smaller one so fewer swaps required. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, MitchellScott said:

I haven't tested it myself but the general concensus around 6kg C02 bottles is that they will carb and serve 500L of beer.

Really that is 0.10/L i thought it would be cheaper. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I have a 6.8kg cylinder, and I find they last about 10-12 months before needing a refill. Normally I pay around $55-60 to swap it when it's empty. Not a huge cost when it's basically once a year. The bigger cost is the initial deposit. 

I use it for carbonating, maintaining carbonation/serving, as well as cleaning kegs and beer lines/taps. I could make it last longer by naturally carbonating the kegs but I prefer the flavour of force carbed. 

I've never counted the number of kegs it lasts for but with 18-20 batches a year plus the soda water being refilled around once a month or maybe more frequently, it's probably somewhere around 25-30 kegs per cylinder which is normal for that size from what I've read. 

If you've got the space to put it, I'd go that size. My reasoning behind it was that it would last longer than a smaller one so fewer swaps required. 

So you don't own the keg you swap and go...I didn't even think about swap and go ... imagine you have your own regulator...  Swap and go, great now i have another option to consider ... I can always drill, not my preferred option, a hole in the fridge wall and run the gas in from the outside ...bit messy but should re-seal ok with some silicone ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to refill 2kg, 4.5kg and 5kg bottles routinely.  Usage varied hugely among brewers depending on not only beer consumption but also purging and other brewing related processes.   Either way it was always more economic to run a larger cylinder - 5kg refill was $45, as opposed to 2kg at $30.  Sodastream bottles were somewhat problematic because of the adaptors required but there were plenty still using these as well as paintball cylinders.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

paintball cylinders.   

What are you guys doing to me was trying to reduce my options not increase them...Kelsey has Swap and Go and now you have paintball cylinders .... time to consult Google again. 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

What are you guys doing to me was trying to reduce my options not increase them...Kelsey has Swap and Go and now you have paintball cylinders .... time to consult Google again. 

I would recommend you opt for one of the larger options if you can, at least 2kg.   The economics are far better than sodastream etc.  I sold the sodastream adaptors here for $29 plus we also had to buy in a selection of adaptors for our filling station too to cater for 'non-standard' bottles.  I refilled sodastream for $15 but they were a PITA to do.         

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

So you don't own the keg you swap and go...I didn't even think about swap and go ... imagine you have your own regulator...  Swap and go, great now i have another option to consider ... I can always drill, not my preferred option, a hole in the fridge wall and run the gas in from the outside ...bit messy but should re-seal ok with some silicone ...

Yeah it's like the BBQ gas bottles, you just take the empty cylinder in and swap it for a full one. My kegerator has a hole in the back for gas lines, I can actually fit three of them through it which works well with the external manifold. Doesn't seem to affect the running of the fridge. 

The only Sodastream stuff I use is the flavour concentrates. They go alright with the soda water I have on tap. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

a dedicated Keg fridge so I will be using a Pluto gun and share the beer fridge with kegs and bottles

I use a fridge to ferment & keep beer cold (keg & bottles). It isn't too bad, but limits how often you brew. If I have a keg on, it stays in the beer fridge until empty, meaning I can't change the temperature of the fridge to suit a temperature controlled fermentation. If you go down the way of the Soda Streams, there are different fittings, etc required to connect the regulator

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Smash said:

I use a fridge to ferment & keep beer cold (keg & bottles). It isn't too bad, but limits how often you brew. If I have a keg on, it stays in the beer fridge until empty, meaning I can't change the temperature of the fridge to suit a temperature controlled fermentation. If you go down the way of the Soda Streams, there are different fittings, etc required to connect the regulator

I have a separate ferment fridge ... I pretty much always have a brew in it as I brew for myself and my son in-law... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah it's like the BBQ gas bottles, you just take the empty cylinder in and swap it for a full one. My kegerator has a hole in the back for gas lines, I can actually fit three of them through it which works well with the external manifold. Doesn't seem to affect the running of the fridge. 

The only Sodastream stuff I use is the flavour concentrates. They go alright with the soda water I have on tap. 

Quick Question Kelsey: how long do you do lagering for and the method you use:  I pressume you pressurize to a set psi/kPa  then just store in the keg fridge at serving temp for a couple of months.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Really that is 0.10/L i thought it would be cheaper. 

 

I honestly think you would be struggling big time to get 100L of carbed and served beer from a sodastream cylinder.

As Kelsey said, most brewers tend to get 12-18 months out of a 6kg bottle. If you have the room to fit it, then that is the go. Cheaper, and less trips to get it refilled = better overall experience.

I got my 6kg bottle from KegLand. $83 for a full bottle, and you own it. My LHBS charges $55 to refill on the spot. So $55 a year and one trip at most to the LHBS and I'm sorted for gas.

Using anything smaller then a 2kg bottle would be a major pain in the ass in comparison (in my opinion).

Mitch.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MitchellScott said:

I got my 6kg bottle from KegLand. $83 for a full bottle, and you own it. My LHBS charges $55 to refill on the spot.

$83?  😨   Wow... that's VERY cheap.   I sold 5kg bottles here in NZ for $320 !   

If it's only $83 then it's a no-brainer.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

$83?  😨   Wow... that's VERY cheap.   I sold 5kg bottles here in NZ for $320 !   

If it's only $83 then it's a no-brainer.   

Yep exactly. I don't know how they're doing it, but they are, and so are Keg King ($84).

Then you own it, so no f*cking around with swap and go's etc. There shipping is very reasonable on it too.

https://www.kegland.com.au/co2-gas-cylinders-6kg-full.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much everyone, all your help has assisted me in getting my thoughts to gell .... So drum roll please .... it will be a 6kg Cylinder ... yes I hear the applause ... have just pulled everything out of the beer fridge it is an oldie but a beauty and it will work a treat .... I will remove the crispers and the kegs can sit side-by-side with the CO2 cylinder sitting behind that on the ledge ... then 65cm above that i will have a full shelf which will hold 35 stubbies and my harvested yeasts .... also the door shelves stay in tact that way ...  the fat lady can now sing ... 

Edited by MartyG1525230263
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Thank you so much everyone, all your help has assisted me in getting my thoughts to gell .... So drum roll please .... it will be a 6kg Cylinder ... yes I hear the applause ... have just pulled everything out of the beer fridge it is an oldie but a beauty and it will work a treat .... I will remove the crispers and the kegs can sit side-by-side with the CO2 cylinder sitting behind that on the ledge ... then 65cm above that i will have a full shelf which will hold 35 stubbies and my harvested yeasts .... also the door shelves stay in tact that way ...  the fat lady can now sing ... 

Good choice 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MitchellScott said:

Good choice 🙂

Thanks just realised that the gas bottle is 76 cm high but will still fit with a shelf above it. ...  anyway if is doesn't will just port it through the side and store the bottle on the top of the fridge or what ever... 

Edited by MartyG1525230263
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

There are various brackets/holders/cradles etc available for the gas cylinders.  Not sure if these would be of any use in your situation...?  

Thanks will get something if needed ... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Quick Question Kelsey: how long do you do lagering for and the method you use:  I pressume you pressurize to a set psi/kPa  then just store in the keg fridge at serving temp for a couple of months.  

Preferred is a couple of months but it doesn't always work out that way. Once I get the second ferment fridge going it might be easier though. 

After the slow ramp down in the fermenter and couple of weeks sitting, I keg it and just put it in the kegerator on serving pressure gas, beer line/tap connected up as well. It then sits there until I decide to start drinking it.

When it's timed well, there's another keg and a half to get through before the lager, so I put it at the back and it gets that extra month lagering. This batch currently fermenting won't get the longer lagering but I'm sure it'll still be nice. At least it will be a good example of how it changes over time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So a couple of weeks cold crash... keg it then sit at serving pressure for a couple of months ... that is enough to carbonate it I presume  ... if not I suppose just up the pressure for a day then back it off again ... sweet ... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

So a couple of weeks cold crash... keg it then sit at serving pressure for a couple of months ... that is enough to carbonate it I presume  ... if not I suppose just up the pressure for a day then back it off again ... sweet ... 

If your draught system is balanced, serving pressure should carbonate the beer fine within a week or so (at fridge temps).

For my system, 12PSI is about the go to for carbonation/serving.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...