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Ellis77

Water filter??

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Hi, about to start 2nd attempt at home brew. First one went pretty well, just a slight sour after taste. Was wondering what that could be? bearing in mind the kit was brand new so no probs with the cleanliness of equipment or bottles. Also I did brew back in January in QLD but managed to keep the temp fairly consistent and not above 24 degrees etc.

Also would anyone recommend filtering the tap water beforehand? Would this make any difference?

 

thanks,

 

Sam

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1 hour ago, Ellis77 said:

First one went pretty well, just a slight sour after taste. Was wondering what that could be? bearing in mind the kit was brand new so no probs with the cleanliness of equipment or bottles. Also I did brew back in January in QLD but managed to keep the temp fairly consistent and not above 24 degrees etc.

Hey Sam,

welcome to the Festival of Brewing!

Re slight sour taste... if it was a Coopers Lager... brewed in the 20 Deg Plus regime... I think that this just goes with the territory myself.... brewing a Lager with an Ale Yeast and at warmer temps.

Ales use Ale Yeasts that are top-fermenters well suited to 18 deg C plus... while Lagers really need cold temps with bottom fermenting Lager Yeasts much colder temps. 

I don't think filtering water will help much - I might be wrong.  Depending upon your water source some brewers do add Calcium and sulphate salts for the Burton-on-Trent style for English Bitters etc.... mate this is just the beginning... there is a lot to the brewing spectrum 😝

 

If you can cop drinking darker beers - I would suggest you brew a Dark Ale or Coopers Bitter or Real Ale - and see how that goes...  as they are meant to be brewed up around 18 deg C - and I reckon cope much better in warmer climes.

Cos really the Lagers I think need to be brewed with a bottom fermenting Lager yeast and at around 10-12 deg C in a controlled temp environment... and then no sour taste.

Anyway... I am sure plenty others of the more qualified brewskies on this site will be able to assist as well.

Good luck with it all.

BB

PS if you like Dark Ales with a  bit of body - my recent "Toucan" ie two cans - with one Coops Dark Ale, one Coopers Lager Tin, and suggest 0.5kg of malt or dextrose... in 23L of water and brewed at 21-22 deg C worked out a treat...  just a possibility.

 

 

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That flavour wouldn't be from the water, likely just the ingredients and fermentation temp. It's more likely a green apples type flavour than sour though. 

Where are you in Qld? I'm in Brisbane and have never bothered or needed to filter the water. There's nothing wrong with the tap water here. IMO unless your town water quality is rubbish or excessively hard, generally speaking water filters are just a waste of time and money. They can be useful in brewing but probably more with all grain than kits. 

I will note that I do distill all the water I use for brewing*, but it's to build specific water profiles for different beers, not because the tap water causes problems. It's just easier to build a profile from a blank canvas. Water profiles vary from place to place, so the water here would likely be different to Perth water. 

*I use straight tap water in one of my regular recipes because I've found that particular beer tastes its best that way. 

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Adelaide tap water is less than good. You definitely need a filter here. Ironic that Coopers are based in Adelaide and make such good beer. Although I believe they source their water from the ground and use reverse osmosis to make it drinkable.

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19 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Hey Sam,

welcome to the Festival of Brewing!

Re slight sour taste... if it was a Coopers Lager... brewed in the 20 Deg Plus regime... I think that this just goes with the territory myself.... brewing a Lager with an Ale Yeast and at warmer temps.

Ales use Ale Yeasts that are top-fermenters well suited to 18 deg C plus... while Lagers really need cold temps with bottom fermenting Lager Yeasts much colder temps. 

I don't think filtering water will help much - I might be wrong.  Depending upon your water source some brewers do add Calcium and sulphate salts for the Burton-on-Trent style for English Bitters etc.... mate this is just the beginning... there is a lot to the brewing spectrum 😝

 

If you can cop drinking darker beers - I would suggest you brew a Dark Ale or Coopers Bitter or Real Ale - and see how that goes...  as they are meant to be brewed up around 18 deg C - and I reckon cope much better in warmer climes.

Cos really the Lagers I think need to be brewed with a bottom fermenting Lager yeast and at around 10-12 deg C in a controlled temp environment... and then no sour taste.

Anyway... I am sure plenty others of the more qualified brewskies on this site will be able to assist as well.

Good luck with it all.

BB

PS if you like Dark Ales with a  bit of body - my recent "Toucan" ie two cans - with one Coops Dark Ale, one Coopers Lager Tin, and suggest 0.5kg of malt or dextrose... in 23L of water and brewed at 21-22 deg C worked out a treat...  just a possibility.

 

 

Thanks BB,

 

As it goes I love dark ales as I'm a pommie. Good to know about the differences between brewing temps with lager and dark ale yeasts.

I think I'll give the coopers bitter a go this time and if all goes well then try the toucan next time.

 

thanks mate and any other tips would be much appreciated:)

 

sam 

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19 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

That flavour wouldn't be from the water, likely just the ingredients and fermentation temp. It's more likely a green apples type flavour than sour though. 

Where are you in Qld? I'm in Brisbane and have never bothered or needed to filter the water. There's nothing wrong with the tap water here. IMO unless your town water quality is rubbish or excessively hard, generally speaking water filters are just a waste of time and money. They can be useful in brewing but probably more with all grain than kits. 

I will note that I do distill all the water I use for brewing*, but it's to build specific water profiles for different beers, not because the tap water causes problems. It's just easier to build a profile from a blank canvas. Water profiles vary from place to place, so the water here would likely be different to Perth water. 

*I use straight tap water in one of my regular recipes because I've found that particular beer tastes its best that way. 

Thanks Otto,

I live in Brisbane too so good to know that the water here is ok and doesn't need filtering. I'll try the coopers bitter this time round.

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22 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

That flavour wouldn't be from the water, likely just the ingredients and fermentation temp. It's more likely a green apples type flavour than sour though. 

Where are you in Qld? I'm in Brisbane and have never bothered or needed to filter the water. There's nothing wrong with the tap water here. IMO unless your town water quality is rubbish or excessively hard, generally speaking water filters are just a waste of time and money. They can be useful in brewing but probably more with all grain than kits. 

I will note that I do distill all the water I use for brewing*, but it's to build specific water profiles for different beers, not because the tap water causes problems. It's just easier to build a profile from a blank canvas. Water profiles vary from place to place, so the water here would likely be different to Perth water. 

*I use straight tap water in one of my regular recipes because I've found that particular beer tastes its best that way. 

 

3 hours ago, Ellis77 said:

Thanks Otto,

I live in Brisbane too so good to know that the water here is ok and doesn't need filtering. I'll try the coopers bitter this time round.

Must be plenty of us Homebrewers in Brisbane,  lol, I have just start to go to the coopers cans and adding hops and other stuff to my brews.

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1 hour ago, Beer Baron said:

My condolences 

Bugger off 😂

Good luck with the English Bitter. It's a nice kit that one. Keep the temp around 21 and it'll turn out nicely I reckon

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19 minutes ago, Navigator said:

 

Must be plenty of us Homebrewers in Brisbane.

Gotta gave something to do with that amazing commercial beer available up there...... XXXX and Great Northern. Iron Jack is probably from there too.....

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4 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Gotta gave something to do with that amazing commercial beer available up there...... XXXX and Great Northern. Iron Jack is probably from there too.....

QLD seems to struggle with plenty of ‘average’ things...........QLD Reds, Brisbane Roar, Kelsey’s beer, Brisbane Lions, NQ Cowboys and Brisbane Broncos and mega swill beer😂

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6 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah but we've made up for it by dominating origin for the last 13/14 years 😜

I didn’t list that on purpose 😂

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On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:24 PM, Beer Baron said:

QLD seems to struggle with plenty of ‘average’ things...........QLD Reds, Brisbane Roar, Kelsey’s beer, Brisbane Lions, NQ Cowboys and Brisbane Broncos and mega swill beer😂

I agree with most of the above other than Kelsey's beer and commitment to excellence... which has just added a huge amount of positive momentum to good home brewing in Australia I say. A guy who oxygenates his FV-Wort with pure oxygen shows a significant amount of commitment besides all of the other good practices...  aided and abetted by this profoundly festive Coopers HB Community site 👍

Edited by Bearded Burbler

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On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 5:35 PM, Ellis77 said:

Thanks BB.. thanks mate and any other tips would be much appreciated:)

Oh dear - I did forget to ask - are you using Sugar - Dextrose - Malt... to add to your kit? 

As adding Sugar does end up with a Cidery Flavour - a little more acidic flavour…

What brew are you normally doing? and what is your normal add..  Dextrose or Sugar or Dried Malt Extract - it makes a big difference.... 

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19 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

I agree with most of the above other than Kelsey's beer and commitment to excellence... 

I was just trying to fire @Otto Von Blotto up but it didn’t work. I can’t actually comment on his beer because he hasn’t sent me any free samples yet ha ha ha

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On 6/13/2019 at 9:24 PM, Beer Baron said:

QLD seems to struggle with plenty of ‘average’ things...........QLD Reds, Brisbane Roar, Kelsey’s beer, Brisbane Lions, NQ Cowboys and Brisbane Broncos and mega swill beer😂

Brisbane lions top 4 in the league! The Reds however....

 

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2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Oh dear - I did forget to ask - are you using Sugar - Dextrose - Malt... to add to your kit? 

As adding Sugar does end up with a Cidery Flavour - a little more acidic flavour…

What brew are you normally doing? and what is your normal add..  Dextrose or Sugar or Dried Malt Extract - it makes a big difference.... 

I used the brew enhancer 1 and the carbonation drops if I remember correctly.  Says to use the Cooper's dry malt with the English bitter, what do you reckon?

 

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1 minute ago, Ellis77 said:

I used the brew enhancer 1 and the carbonation drops if I remember correctly.  Says to use the Cooper's dry malt with the English bitter, what do you reckon?

 

That's the light dry malt

 

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15 hours ago, Ellis77 said:

That's the light dry malt

Hey there E77.

Yes I agree with Kelsey (OVB) above that the light dry malt would be much better for yer Bitter...  

But even better than that would be a tin of LIQUID MALT.

So the below shows the general move up the chain of goodness... (And also cost) with a Kit-n-Kilo approach...

Starts at the bottom with Sugar --> then better with Dex --> then BE1,2,3 etc... but obviously the style of beer also determines whether you want BE 1, 2 or 3 too.

But after having moved from Dex into dry malt... which improves things - but the head retention with a pure DRY malt extract + hops brew with no liquid malt seemed to pretty poor to me... though flavour and body was fine.  I bought like 20kg of dry malt... which was more cost effective than 1kg at a time... but it can be a bit of a pain to handle.  And say for an extra C.$5 I think that going to liquid malt is a quantum leap better... especially if you can just walk in to a shop nearby and purchase without paying freight (I am out in the boonies).

The head retention of brew with Liquid Malts is miles better (and now my very first crack at All Grain seems even better and lots of brewers do kit+partial grain adjuncts too) IMHO. 

So for your Bitter... you could consider a tin of liquid malt - see far below.... depending upon your cost-budget too.... maybe for your bitter a tin of Amber Malt?

And if you want to make 5% probably half a kilo of one of the BEs as well. 

I also advocate the Toucan is worth trying e.g. Coopers Dark Ale plus Coops Lager plus 0.5kg of malt or BE stuff.

 

Coopers Brew Enhancer 1

contains dextrose and maltodextrin. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 2

contains dextrose, maltodextrin and Light Dry Malt. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention. The Light Dry Malt, being 100% pale malt, will further add to the body and increase the malt character of your favourite brew. Great for use with any beer styles where a fuller, maltier flavour is preferred.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 3

contains a high proportion of Light Dry Malt combined with dextrose and maltodextrin. The substantial quantity of Pale malt, maximises the malt character of your favourite brew whilst the dextrose and maltodextrin improve the mouthfeel and body, delivering a creamy head and avoiding any residual cidery flavours. The ultimate enhancer for all beer styles where a fuller flavour is desired.

 

LIQUID Malt Extracts:

image.thumb.png.91fb13635693384393ab226d53263351.png

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Hey there E77.

Yes I agree with Kelsey (OVB) above that the light dry malt would be much better for yer Bitter...  

But even better than that would be a tin of LIQUID MALT.

So the below shows the general move up the chain of goodness... (And also cost) with a Kit-n-Kilo approach...

Starts at the bottom with Sugar --> then better with Dex --> then BE1,2,3 etc... but obviously the style of beer also determines whether you want BE 1, 2 or 3 too.

But after having moved from Dex into dry malt... which improves things - but the head retention with a pure DRY malt extract + hops brew with no liquid malt seemed to pretty poor to me... though flavour and body was fine.  I bought like 20kg of dry malt... which was more cost effective than 1kg at a time... but it can be a bit of a pain to handle.  And say for an extra C.$5 I think that going to liquid malt is a quantum leap better... especially if you can just walk in to a shop nearby and purchase without paying freight (I am out in the boonies).

The head retention of brew with Liquid Malts is miles better (and now my very first crack at All Grain seems even better and lots of brewers do kit+partial grain adjuncts too) IMHO. 

So for your Bitter... you could consider a tin of liquid malt - see far below.... depending upon your cost-budget too.... maybe for your bitter a tin of Amber Malt?

And if you want to make 5% probably half a kilo of one of the BEs as well. 

I also advocate the Toucan is worth trying e.g. Coopers Dark Ale plus Coops Lager plus 0.5kg of malt or BE stuff.

 

Coopers Brew Enhancer 1

 

contains dextrose and maltodextrin. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention.

 

Coopers Brew Enhancer 2

 

contains dextrose, maltodextrin and Light Dry Malt. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention. The Light Dry Malt, being 100% pale malt, will further add to the body and increase the malt character of your favourite brew. Great for use with any beer styles where a fuller, maltier flavour is preferred.

 

Coopers Brew Enhancer 3

 

contains a high proportion of Light Dry Malt combined with dextrose and maltodextrin. The substantial quantity of Pale malt, maximises the malt character of your favourite brew whilst the dextrose and maltodextrin improve the mouthfeel and body, delivering a creamy head and avoiding any residual cidery flavours. The ultimate enhancer for all beer styles where a fuller flavour is desired.

 

LIQUID Malt Extracts:

image.thumb.png.91fb13635693384393ab226d53263351.png

 

 

 

So the liquid amber malt extract and a half a kilo of BE? Which BE? 1,2 or 3? Without adding half kilo of BE and just using the liquid malt would this make the brew more like 3.5/4 percent?

Thanks mate 

 

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