The English Bitter Thread!

[Journeyman]

9 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

bio-transformation of the Sour Cherry juice

One recipe I will not be trying.  Not a fan of cherry-anything.

[ChristinaS1]

2 hours ago, Journeyman said:

One recipe I will not be trying.  Not a fan of cherry-anything.

I hear you....The beer does not taste like cherry at all. There is no identifiable cherry flavour.

Cheers,

Christina.

[Norris!]

15 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Just gotta say again that this beer turned out really well, despite the apparent over-pitch. Not sure if it is due to using a large percentage of Maris Otter in the partial mash, the yeast used, or bio-transformation of the Sour Cherry juice and EKG hops, but it is really good.  Next time I make the recipe I will pitch less yeast and ferment it cooler.

Cheers,

Christina.

 

Can I ask why pitch less yeast? Is it to get the esters to shine more? I am not familiar with English Bitters, so excuse my ignorance.

[ChristinaS1]

6 hours ago, Norris! said:

Can I ask why pitch less yeast? Is it to get the esters to shine more? I am not familiar with English Bitters, so excuse my ignorance.

Hi Norris. The short answer is "yes." Under-pitching produces more esters.

I think I unintentionally over-pitched this batch. It was my first time using this yeast, which is supposedly the same as the Conan strain from Heady Topper, and originally English. I had heard that it is a very vigorous fermentor but the tube I bought was just a week away from expiry, so I made a 2.5L Shaken Not Stirred (SNS) starter with it, which my yeast calculator said would produce 184B cells. In retrospect a regular 1L SNS starter would likely have been enough because the airlock started bubbling within two hours, and fermentation stopped just 8-1/2 hours after pitching, which makes me think it was over-pitched. I have never had such a fast fermentation, but maybe it is normal behaviour for this yeast. I will know more as I get more experience with this yeast (have saved slurry).

Interestingly, after the first 8-1/2 hours, the airlock continued to bubble very slowly for a couple of weeks, without really changing the SG reading. I finally got tired of waiting for it to stop and kegged it.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited March 31, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[Norris!]

I prefer to overpitch most of my ales because I want a crisp beer helped through the mash temp and the yeast but kind of guessed it was around the beer style.

[The Captain!!]

So I’ve been doing a little research and have come up with a recipe that’s based on a best bitter but also some changes to my palette. 
Recipe as below. The wheat is unmalted for that medium mouthfeel. Rye for a touch of spice, Vienna for a little more malt character. 
people in the know, will this resemble an ESB?

[ChristinaS1]

19 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

The wheat is unmalted for that medium mouthfeel. Rye for a touch of spice, Vienna for a little more malt character. 
people in the know, will this resemble an ESB?

ESBs vary from region to region, but I am not sure that rye and unmalted wheat are typical. The malt bill is usually very simple....Torrefied wheat is used, especially in Northern England.

Curious why you aren't using a British base malt, like Maris Otter Captain? While Vienna can be a good stand in for Mild Malt, if you use Maris Otter, you probably don't need it. 

As for yeast, S-04 is not a bad choice, but a liquid English yeast would probably be nicer. Contrary to what you read everywhere, genetic tests have shown S-04 is not a dry version of WLP007. http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited April 12, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[The Captain!!]

2 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

ESBs vary from region to region, but I am not sure that rye and unmalted wheat are typical. The malt bill is usually very simple....Torrefied wheat is used, especially in Northern England.

Curious why you aren't using a British base malt, like Maris Otter Captain? While Vienna can be a good stand in for Mild Malt, if you use Maris Otter, you probably don't need it. 

As for yeast, S-04 is not a bad choice, but a liquid English yeast would probably be nicer. Contrary to what you read everywhere, genetic tests have shown S-04 is not a dry version of WLP007. http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030

Cheers,

Christina.

Hey Christina,

The reason I’m not using Maris, liquid yeast is because I just can’t get it at the moment so trying to use what I have but trying to make it resemble something like an ESB.

Just for something different to my normal hoppy pales and IPAs. 

If it kinda resembles one I’d be happy, having never travelled to England nor really had a good ESB. Just wondering if it would get close. 

As for the unmalted wheat, I love it in dry beers. Gives a medium mouthfeel but it still finishes dry. Making the beers really smashable or to be able to drink in quantity as the BJCP notes say for a Best Bitter. 
 

I guess you have answered my question anyway. I’m gonna bang this one down in two brew days time and see how she goes. 

[ChristinaS1]

3 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

I’m gonna bang this one down in two brew days time and see how she goes. 

It should be pretty tasty.

Cheers,

Christina.

[The Captain!!]

4 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

It should be pretty tasty.

Cheers,

Christina.

Yeah I think it will be even if it doesn’t resemble an ESB

[King Ruddager]

Alright, I've still never made a best bitter I thought was any good (or at least not like a proper one), but at least I thought about what was wrong with the last one this time:

1. Too dry
2. Not fruity

SO, I'm going waaaaay more simple now, upping the %age of crystal malt, removing munich and roasted malts, upping the late hops and lowering the bitterness to wind up with ...

• 93.3% Maris Otter
• 6.7% Dark Crystal
• Bramling Cross / Magnum @60 to 27.8 IBUs
• 1.5 g/L Bramling Cross @0
• 1.8 g/L Bramling Cross @Cube (roughly -15)
• S04 yeast (to hell with London ESB yeast!)

There's a fair chance I've got too far with the hops and crystal, but I'm totally cool with that - easier to find the nice place in between next time if I have examples either side of it.

[Lab Cat]

11 hours ago, King Ruddager said:

Alright, I've still never made a best bitter I thought was any good (or at least not like a proper one), but at least I thought about what was wrong with the last one this time:

Don't think I've made a Bitter yet I really like. They've all been too bitter, I think late or dry hopping may be the go for my next one. Brewing extract, the Coopers EB it quite bitter to start with.

 The Scotch Ale was a really good beer, but with the Sparkling ale, amber malt and a bucket of brown sugar - not really a bitter.

[King Ruddager]

17 minutes ago, Lab Cat said:

Don't think I've made a Bitter yet I really like. They've all been too bitter

Dear lord, where do you even go from there????

[Lab Cat]

43 minutes ago, King Ruddager said:

Dear lord, where do you even go from there????

Maybe not bittering any hops with the EB kit.

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

I had no idea of an ESB recipe, so I picked up this recipe set from my not-so local brew store as a base to start from.

 

Pitched Saturday afternoon @ 18 degrees and the krausen dropped yesterday, so started ramping up the temp to 22 to let it finish off.

Wanted to start with a base and work out from there. Will more than likely switch to Maris Otter next time I brew it, but will be trying out some more styles although I do really enjoy English beers.

Edit: Just reading up on it and the Gladfield Ale Malt is a UK variety anyway, so I might leave it as is if it’s any good. Lesson there, read up on the providence of your base ingredients

Edited May 12, 2020 by NewBrews
Further info

[Hairy]

8 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

Don't think I've made a Bitter yet I really like. They've all been too bitter, I think late or dry hopping may be the go for my next one. Brewing extract, the Coopers EB it quite bitter to start with.

 The Scotch Ale was a really good beer, but with the Sparkling ale, amber malt and a bucket of brown sugar - not really a bitter.

The EB kit is fairly bitter.

Try using a different kit or LME as the base and build it up yourself with specialty malts and hops. Plus a good English yeast.

[Journeyman]

11 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

Don't think I've made a Bitter yet I really like. They've all been too bitter

I made this a while back - not really  an English Bitter as per London but damn nice. Was the missus' goto beer while it lasted.

[Lab Cat]

Cascade in a Bitter? CAMRA would be setting the pitchforkers loose...

[Otto Von Blotto]

Gladfield ale malt is pretty similar to Maris otter I find. 

I've never put Cascade in an English bitter, it'd probably end up making it taste closer to an American pale ale, having said that, it is used in my red ale and it isn't a hop bomb. The amounts of late hops used are a lot lower though. If it was hopped like an APA it would obviously be closer to that style than whatever it is. This is why I tend to use ingredients associated with each style I make rather than crossing them over and blurring the lines. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Otto Von Blotto

[Journeyman]

2 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

Cascade in a Bitter? CAMRA would be setting the pitchforkers loose...

I need th e exercise - unleash those hounds... (WTF is CAMRA?)  (and should I care?)  

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Gladfield ale malt is pretty similar to Maris otter I find. 

I've never put Cascade in an English bitter, it'd probably end up making it taste closer to an American pale ale, having said that, it is used in my red ale and it isn't a hop bomb. The amounts of late hops used are a lot lower though. If it was hopped like an APA it would obviously be closer to that style than whatever it is. This is why I tend to use ingredients associated with each style I make rather than crossing them over and blurring the lines. 

I thought cascade fairly mild and the amounts are low. Used it in the boil to add a little bitter - I haven't used the EB can before and didn't want something the missus couldn't drink. The whirlpool was to bring a little normal hops flavour as my impression so far with EKG is it's barely noticeable as far as flavour goes.

I freely admit I am very inexperienced with the hops schedules - funds are tight so dropping large amounts in a beer just to experiment isn't really on the cards.

But it is a very nice beer! 

[Otto Von Blotto]

In small amounts it probably is pretty mild. I only get a bit of fruitiness in the red ale. I have seen recipes before of supposed English bitters that are hopped up with juicy American hops. I don't really see the point of that because it ceases to be an English bitter and just becomes an APA with English ale yeast. 

[ChristinaS1]

I put this on earlier in the week. It will be time to dry hop it tomorrow. 

 

Simple English Bitter

 

1.7kg Coopers Blonde

1.0kg light DME

225gm Crystal wheat 6%

75gm C75L 2%

75gm C120L 2%

750gm Maris Otter 19.6%

15gm Cascades x 10 minute boil

30gm Williamette x 20 minute hop stand

10mL Clarity Ferm

23L RO water

Gen 2 WLP095 slurry from 12-3-2020

10gm Cacades DH x 4 days 

20gm Willamette DH x 4 days

 

OG 1.047; FG 1.012; ABV 4.6%; ECB 20; IBU33; BU:GU 0.70.

 

@Lab Cat As for using Cascade in a bitter, Wychwood apparently finishes King Goblin with a combo of Styrian Golding to Cascade, and it is a great beer. https://www.wychwood.co.uk/beers/king-goblin/

 

Note that my recipe is not an attempt at a King Goblin clone though. 

 

Personally I think Cascade pairs better with English style hops than Centennial does, which I have also tried. Centennial has too high a geraniol level. The lemon-y snap it provides is out of place in any British or European beer, IMHO. 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

My Simple English Bitter turned out really well, my best English Bitter yet. Nice and malty.

I bottled what did not fit in the keg. Primed the bottles with Demerara sugar, and they taste a bit more caramel-y than the kegged version, which I like. Next time I will add some Demerara to the main recipe.

Cheers,

Christina.

[The Captain!!]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:53 AM, ChristinaS1 said:

My Simple English Bitter turned out really well, my best English Bitter yet. Nice and malty.

I bottled what did not fit in the keg. Primed the bottles with Demerara sugar, and they taste a bit more caramel-y than the kegged version, which I like. Next time I will add some Demerara to the main recipe.

Nice!

I add Demerara to a saison recipe of mine. It brings a small but noticeable caramel tinge. It’s really good used sparingly. 
 

For my next ESB I reckon I might base it on that simple one of yours just above, looks delicious 

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

Half way through drinking the Easy ESB I posted.

Great beer, one of the best beers I’ve made given it was the first through the Brewzilla.