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The English Bitter Thread!


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1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

@BlackSands you use M36 regularly, what have you found the best temp for it to get a some of those esters it throws out.

 

Dunno to be honest.  I ferment in the usual range 18 - 20ºC and have never really been particularly aware of the esters some say it's supposed to produce, seems pretty clean to me.   All I can suggest is you perhaps try it at the upper end of it's recommended range (23ºC).  😎

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5 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Dunno to be honest.  I ferment in the usual range 18 - 20ºC and have never really been particularly aware of the esters some say it's supposed to produce, seems pretty clean to me.   All I can suggest is you perhaps try it at the upper end of it's recommended range (23ºC).  😎

I am the same,  haven't really notice too many and have used it at 18, 19, 20 and 22 ...  thanks for the info ... 

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32 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Use lots! 

🤢

I have an AG Oatmeal Stout done with a 60 minute boil of 50g Bramling Cross and 20 minute steep of 50g Bramling Cross.  Is that lots?

I will be trying one of these on the weekend when it will be two weeks in the bottle. 

🤞

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2 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I have an AG Oatmeal Stout done with a 60 minute boil of 50g Bramling Cross and 20 minute steep of 50g Bramling Cross.  Is that lots?

I will be trying one of these on the weekend when it will be two weeks in the bottle. 

🤞

More than I used!  I think my recipe at the time had a total of 75g, and I think 50g was dry hop. 

I'd brewed a bitter-style beer using Pacific Gem and that was really horrific - super woody/oaky and almost undrinkable as a result.  I decided to re-brew the same recipe using a good old trusted English hop instead - one that I hadn't used before - that happened to be Bramling Cross.  Well, it was almost the same!  A little better... but not by much! DOH! 🙄    As fate would have it,  it too had a very strong woody flavour.   Actually it tasted like I'd actually steeped a bunch of twigs from the garden rather than actual hops!   

I'm sure there are folks out there that like these hops and I can see in SMALL doses they could add a desirable character to some beers, but based on my personal experience with them I've decided to simply avoid altogether!  

But don't let any of that put you off.   😜

 

 

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9 hours ago, Ben 10 said:

My bitter had 100g and it is nothing but nice. Interesting what people taste

Then I think you need to use more like 20g/l total. That should come through fairly loud and clear. Try a 100g bittering addition, 150g flameout addition and 150g dry hop.

Cheers, 

John

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I now thinking hop age could be a factor in all this?  My LHBS (both of them) store their hops loosely bagged in a fridge!   I have a hunch the Bramling X I purchased at the time, not being so popular was probably quite old in hindsight.   🤔   

 

 

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5 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

I now thinking hop age could be a factor in all this?  My LHBS (both of them) store their hops loosely bagged in a fridge!   I have a hunch the Bramling X I purchased at the time, not being so popular was probably quite old in hindsight.   🤔   
 

It could also just be personal taste. Not everyone likes the same things.

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13 minutes ago, Hairy said:

It could also just be personal taste. Not everyone likes the same things.

That's true. And sometimes there's unanimous agreement!   While opinions of Bramling X are mixed I can't find a good word said about Pacific Gem hops anywhere  😁

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On 8/27/2019 at 11:25 PM, BlackSands said:

Dunno to be honest.  I ferment in the usual range 18 - 20ºC and have never really been particularly aware of the esters some say it's supposed to produce, seems pretty clean to me.   All I can suggest is you perhaps try it at the upper end of its recommended range (23ºC).  😎

 

On 8/27/2019 at 11:33 PM, MartyG1525230263 said:

I am the same,  haven't really notice too many and have used it at 18, 19, 20 and 22 ...  thanks for the info ... 

Same here. I have used it several times, fermented between 20-22C. Clean, no esters. Do you keg or bottle Marty? It would be interesting to hear from someone who kegs if they have noticed esters with Liberty Bell.

I know BlackSands bottle conditions, and so do I....Either we are not fermenting warm enough, we are over-pitching (very possible as I used slurry for half of the batches), or the esters got cleaned up during bottle conditioning. My understanding is esters get cleaned up by the yeast rather quickly. 

Cheers.

Christina.

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1 hour ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Clean, no esters. Do you keg or bottle Marty?

I now keg but have only used it when I bottled. The first time I used was an English Bitter.  I was very disappointed with the attenuation as it finished at 1020 which was about 8 point higher than it should have been but the beer was wonderful ... the other 2 times I used it were in a kegs for my son in-law which he loved and from my tastes they were great but no real esters. Just clean and leaving plenty of room for the hops to shine... but I am kegging this brew it is a 46 litre 2 can of real ale with citra and centennial so will 100% let you know how it taste in a couple of weeks when the 1st of the 2 kegs is on tap ... 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/26/2019 at 8:40 AM, ChristinaS1 said:
Best Bitter (version 3)
 
1.7kg Coopers Lager
450gm Briess Golden Light LME 13%
700gm Maris Otter 20.7%
250gm Home Toasted Canadian Pale ale malt 7.4%
125gm C120L 3.7%
100gm Caramunich 3.0% 
60gm Melanoidin 1.8%
15gm EKG x 20 min
20gm Willamette hop stand x 20 min
15gm EKG DH
10mL Clarity Ferm
22L water
10gm MJ Liberty Bell yeast 
 
OG 1.043 FG 1.010; ABV 4.22% + 0.4% = 4.62%; EBC 18.4; IBU 35; BU:GU 0.84

Update: I have been drinking these for a while now and am getting close to the end of the batch. I used RO for the mash and think my pH was too low. Initially there was some astringency which disappeared after a while. It is not bad, and better than my first attempt. As with my other attempts,  the mouthfeel could be better. I find Liberty Bell yeast attenuates too much, and doesn't leave enough mouthfeel behind in my low gravity recipes. 

This batch has been in the bottle five weeks and what I am noticing that the older it gets, the better it tastes....This reminds me of a batch of Muntons Yorkshire Bitter I made years ago: I forgot a few bottles at our cottage; when I finally drank them, at ten weeks in the bottle, they were ever so much better, and freaking delicious.  I am starting to think English Bitters benefit from some age. What do you all think about that? How long should they be aged? 🤔

Cheers,

Christina. 

Edited by ChristinaS1
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On 8/12/2019 at 4:26 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

....put down #4 today:

Fancy Molasses Bitter
 
1.7kg Coopers APA 
850gm Maris Otter 24.3%
415gm Home Toasted Maris Otter malt 11.9%
140gm C60L 4%
70gm Aromatic 2%
60gm Acidulated malt 1.7%
260gm Crosby's Fancy Molasses 7.6% boiled x 10 min
15gm EKG boiled x 20 min
20gm Centennial hop stand x 20 min 
15gm EKG DH x 4 days
10mL Clarity Ferm
22L water
7 gm Coopers Ale yeast. Fermentation temp 22C.
 
OG 1.042 FG 1.011; ABV 4.01% + 0.4% = 4.41%; EBC 22.6; IBU 19.5; BU:GU 0.75.
 
In Canada Fancy Molasses is pure sugarcane juice that has been evaporated down to 25% moisture. It becomes partially inverted during this process. Crosby's is also purified. It is considered the highest grade of molasses, but technically it is not a molasses because no sugar has been removed. 
 

Just had my first taste of this today and it is quite tasty. It does not taste like molasses, but it has some interesting "bottom" notes, almost as if it had roasted malt in, but without the roastiness. It is still early days; I am interested to see how this develops.

This is my first ever kegged batch. I naturally carbonated it in the keg.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/15/2019 at 11:40 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

 I find Liberty Bell yeast attenuates too much, and doesn't leave enough mouthfeel behind in my low gravity recipes. 

 

I notice a lot of Bitter recipes use flaked barley.  I wonder if this would help with the mouth feel? 

 

On 9/15/2019 at 11:40 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

I am starting to think English Bitters benefit from some age. What do you all think about that? How long should they be aged? 

Mine are aged for as long as possible before the previous batch runs dry!  Usually that's only a few weeks.  It's likely I've probably never really experienced them at their best. To accommodate longer aging I'd really need to increase my production rate so I still have plenty of drink-ready brew on hand while waiting for the beer to condition for a longer period.   With only the one brew fridge that's a bit difficult at current consumption rates!  

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On 7/29/2019 at 6:34 PM, Greeny1525229549 said:

Yeah make it myself Christina. I bought Belgian Candi sugar once and for me it made no difference to the final product. I use cane sugar and acid like the brits. I don't go to hard crack and leave it in a liquid state as it's easier to use that way. Never used it in my English beers but I will give it a go next time. Maybe 300 grams or so and see if it does anything different.

Where did you buy Belgian Candi Sugar? i'm looking for it for the Midas Touch recepie 

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On 10/6/2019 at 12:10 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

At my LHBS mate but after paying like 14 for a kilo i did some research and experiments of my own and realised its just inverted sugar with marketing speak. 

Plenty of articles on the net to show you how to make it. Just sugar. A pot. A candy thermometer and some citric acid needed.

When I looked after my LHBS last year I used to sell candi syrup in 3 grades for $9/kilo, but the deal was you had to bring your own container.  It's nearly as messy to work with as LME! 

I've read of many brewers who just use plain old sugar instead and claim there's no difference.  If you're feeling lazy and looking for a short cut I suspect you could get away  with using one of several darker sugars you find at the supermarket.  Even molasses, treacle or golden syrup would probably do the job just as well. 

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2 hours ago, BlackSands said:

When I looked after my LHBS last year I used to sell candi syrup in 3 grades for $9/kilo, but the deal was you had to bring your own container.  It's nearly as messy to work with as LME! 

I've read of many brewers who just use plain old sugar instead and claim there's no difference.  If you're feeling lazy and looking for a short cut I suspect you could get away  with using one of several darker sugars you find at the supermarket.  Even molasses, treacle or golden syrup would probably do the job just as well. 

I think inversion does make a difference. I have tried straight sugar in a tripel and it left a slight flavour difference. My recipe for dark candi syrup is a 50 50 ratio of white sugar and CSR dark brown sugar. Amber 75 25 and clear 100 white. I cant tell the diff between it and candi sugar once its inverted. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/11/2019 at 10:00 PM, Greeny1525229549 said:

I think inversion does make a difference. I have tried straight sugar in a tripel and it left a slight flavour difference. My recipe for dark candi syrup is a 50 50 ratio of white sugar and CSR dark brown sugar. Amber 75 25 and clear 100 white. I cant tell the diff between it and candi sugar once its inverted. 

Table sugar is inverted in boiling wort. All that is required is a low pH and heat.  👨‍🔬

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