The English Bitter Thread!

[porschemad911]

3 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Added a bit more water to thin it out and ended up missing my target temp of 68C, and mashed at 66C instead. 

I think that's ok Christina, Graham Wheeler recommends in Brew Your Own British Real Ale to mash at 65C.

2l/kg is pretty thick! I remember starting off around there to do a step mash with Red X malt... Felt much better after adding the dilution water to hit the next step.

Good luck with the beer, sounds like a tasty mix of ingredients, and gluten reduced to boot. How has your wife been going with your Clarity Ferm beers? 

Cheers, 

John 

[ChristinaS1]

Hi John, 

She seems to be tolerating them well gluten wise, but she isn't used to drinking alcohol anymore and, even though my recent batches have been session strength, she really feels them. LOL! 

I have decided to add Clarity Ferm to all of my brews now. Saves me having to brew her a separate batch, which would be too much for her anyway and get stale. It is probably good for me too, to reduce my gluten load, and since there appear to be no downsides taste wise, why not? I eat plenty of gluten; don't need to drink it as well. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited July 10, 2019 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

On 6/19/2019 at 2:13 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

Just put this baby down:

Brown Sugar Bitter with Toasted Malt

 

1.7kg Coopers Mexican Cervesa

1.0kg Maris Otter 30.9%

200gm home toasted malt 6.2%

350gm Demerara sugar 10.8%

125gm C75L 3.9%

60gm TF Pale Chocolate 1.9%

30gm Willamette 3.5% AA boiled x 30 min

15gm Willamette boiled x 10 min

20gm Willamette at FO + hop stand x 20 minutes

23L reverse osmosis water

10mL Clarity Ferm

10gm MJ's Liberty Bell yeast, dry pitched

 

OG 1.041 FG 1.009  ABV 4.17% IBU 28 BU:GU 0.73 EBC 24

 

Decided to use Demerara sugar this time around, instead of making Inverted Sugar No. 2 syrup. Looking forward to tasting this one.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina. 

Just tried the first one of these last night.  Very smooth and drinkable, and not bad at all, but not quite what I am looking for. Next time I think I will use a kit with higher bitterness as the base, and DH (with Willamette).

[ben 10]

Quote

Becipe: Strong Bitter
Brewer: Grumpy
Style: Strong Bitter
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 L   
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 28.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 45.0 IBUs


Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU         Volume        
1.00 tsp         Ascorbic Acid (Mash)                             Water Agent   1          -             -             
2.75 kg          Coopers Premium Ale (5.9 EBC)                    Grain         2          57.9 %        1.79 L        
1.50 kg          Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC)             Grain         3          31.6 %        0.98 L        
0.25 kg          Brown Malt (Simpsons) (295.5 EBC)                Grain         4          5.3 %         0.16 L        
0.25 kg          Crystal Rye Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (157.6 EBC)    Grain         5          5.3 %         0.16 L        
50.00 g          Bramling Cross [6.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min          Hop           6          34.6 IBUs     -             
3.65 g           Brewbrite (Boil 10.0 mins)                       Fining        7          -             -             
50.00 g          Bramling Cross [6.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0  Hop           8          10.5 IBUs     -             
1.0 pkg          Liberty Bell (Mangrove Jack's #M36)              Yeast         9          -             -             
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strong Bitter as per BJCP...

Quote

Aroma: Hop aroma moderately-high to moderately-low, typically with a floral, earthy, resiny, and/or fruity character.

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Ben 10

[Beerlust]

What's a "Becipe"?

[ben 10]

Bitter Recipe

[ChristinaS1]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:21 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

Crystal 75 & Toasted Wheat Bitter

 

1.7kg Coopers Lager

650gm Briess Golden Light LME (half container) 18%

750g Maris Otter 20.8%

200gm home toasted wheat malt 5.5% 

250gm C75L 6.9%

60gm TF Pale Chocolate 1.7%

15gm Willamette boiled x 20 min

15gm Willamette hop stand x 20 minutes

22L reverse osmosis water

10mL Clarity Ferm

sloppy slurry from previous batch MJ's Liberty Bell yeast. Fridge set to 20C.

 

OG 1.042 FG 1.009 ABV 4.21%+ 0.5% = 4.7%;  IBU 33 BU:GU 0.78 EBC 20.5. Will use Demerara sugar for bulk priming again.

After sampling my Brown Sugar Bitter with Toasted Malt and not finding it hoppy enough, I decided to bring this out of CC, back up to 18C, and DH with 15gm EKG. Probably won't get a chance to bottle this until Friday. 

Cheers,

Christina. 

[Beerlust]

11 hours ago, Ben 10 said:

Bitter Recipe

Good recovery. 

The recipe looks nice.

I would really like your thoughts on the Bramling Cross flavour & aroma once you've got it in the glass. Particularly the aroma.

Best of luck with the brew,

Lusty.

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Beerlust said:

Bramling Cross

I am interested too.  Was thinking this hop might go well in a stout, for something different in the background. 

[Hairy]

ESB. It has only been in the keg for 3 days and already tasting fantastic.

[ben 10]

23 hours ago, Beerlust said:

Bramling Cross flavour & aroma

I had a beer with that and Jester and the berry notes were outstanding.

[ChristinaS1]

Best Bitter (version 3)

 

1.7kg Coopers Lager

450gm Briess Golden Light LME 13%

700gm Maris Otter 20.7%

250gm Home Toasted Canadian Pale ale malt 7.4%

125gm C120L 3.7%

100gm Caramunich 3.0% 

60gm Melanoidin 1.8%

15gm EKG x 20 min

20gm Willamette hop stand x 20 min

15gm EKG DH

10mL Clarity Ferm

22L water

10gm MJ Liberty Bell yeast 

 

OG 1.043 FG 1.010; ABV 4.22% + 0.4% = 4.62%; EBC 18.4; IBU 35; BU:GU 0.84

 

Mashing this now; it is my third EB in a row since starting this thread. Increasing the home toasted malt a bit, swapping the pale chocolate malt for melanoidin malt, and splitting the crystal malt between medium and dark.....Wish my LHBS carried British crystal malts. I am having to make do with German and Canadian.

 

BTW, the bottling leftovers of version 2 (Crystal 75 & Toasted Wheat bitter) tasted pretty good after DH with EKG for a couple of days; I liked it better than version 1, which had no dry hop.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Hairy]

A few more days in and it is looking and tasting much better.

[ChristinaS1]

Beauty Hairy. Sounds like you are very pleased with it, which is great! 

[ChristinaS1]

https://byo.com/article/british-bitter-style-of-the-month/

The author of the above article says that partial mashers can mimic the flavour of Maris Otter by using some Belgian Biscuit malt in the grist. His sample recipe used 8%, which is higher than the 6-7% average in all grain recipes. My LHBS does not carry Biscuit malt (or Victory, which would be a fine substitute), which is why I am making home toasted malt. I started out with 6% (200gm), but can't really taste it. I increased it to 7% (250gm) in version 3, made yesterday, before reading this article....I may increase it to 8% (300gm) when I make my next version.

Cheers,

Christina.

[ChristinaS1]

I am drinking my first recipe now. Interesting thing about it is that is has a surprising amount of head which is quite persistent, more persistent than usual. I am not sure what accounts for it. The grist is so simple that it could only be the Demerara sugar or the home toasted malt. It doesn't make sense to me that it would be the Demerara sugar, which I would expect to have the opposite effect on head retention, but it reminds me of what @MartyG1525230263 said about why British breweries use inverted sugar, back on page one of this thread. Maybe head retention has something to do with the "impurities" in both Demerara sugar and inverted sugar made from raw sugar?

@MartyG1525230263 can you remember where you read that?

Cheers,

Christina.

[Marty_G]

@ChristinaS1 don't really remember where I came up with that ... I had a nick name at work of "google it Marty" as if there was something that came up that I did not know the answer to I would be onto "Google" before the question was over and researching it ...  so i suppose I just Googled it and add it to other knowledge I have and bingo that why they use inverted sugars ... i imagine that for those that do a small boil of liquid or dry malts for their hop boils when they boil the dissolve malt the sugar will invert ...  i don't know for sure but that is a pretty reasonable hypothesis ... I assume canned liquid malts may already be inverted during the process used to make the syrup ...  becuase when making syrup you are inverting the sugar ...    https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/invert-syrups-making-simple-sugars-complex-beers/

[ChristinaS1]

@MartyG1525230263 Thanks for that Marty. I tried to Google it in various ways and could find no studies, only repeated statement that invert syrup increases head retention. My guess is that it is an observation made over the years by various brewers, that has been accepted as fact in some brewing traditions, that has not been studied.

In my search I came across what seemed like a knowledgeable discussion of invert syrup in this thread on the Beersmith forum: 

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=13941.0

The thread didn't talk about head retention, but one of the posters said that adding unrefined / raw cane sugar to the kettle in the last 15 minutes of the boil causes the sugar to invert in the kettle, as the acidity and heat are in the correct range. He says it becomes the equivalent of invert syrup No. 1. Looking back at my notes for the is brew, I added the Demerara sugar near the end of the boil. I doubt it boiled 15 minutes, but maybe it was never-the-less long enough to invert the sugar? Anyway, it might explain why this brew has good head retention, if indeed inverted syrups improve head retention....I guess my experience with this batch makes me willing to consider the tradition is correct.

I did not use Demerara sugar in the kettle in the two subsequent recipes (only for bulk priming) so it will be interesting to see if the head of those two brews have less staying power. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited July 27, 2019 by ChristinaS1

[Marty_G]

Dem

6 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Demerara sugar

If I recall you're not based in Oz are you? I was not familiar with this at all so looked it up and I think it is similar to what we call may call brown sugar. 

[Hairy]

You can buy it in Australia.

https://www.csrsugar.com.au/csr-sugar/our-products/specialty/demerara-sugar/

I think it is a fancier version of their brown sugar.

https://www.csrsugar.com.au/csr-sugar/our-products/baking/brown-sugar/

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

8 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

@MartyG1525230263 Thanks for that Marty. I tried to Google it in various ways and could find no studies, only repeated statement that invert syrup increases head retention. My guess is that it is an observation made over the years by various brewers, that has been accepted as fact in some brewing traditions, that has not been studied.

In my search I came across what seemed like a knowledgeable discussion of invert syrup in this thread on the Beersmith forum: 

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=13941.0

The thread didn't talk about head retention, but one of the posters said that adding unrefined / raw cane sugar to the kettle in the last 15 minutes of the boil causes the sugar to invert in the kettle, as the acidity and heat are in the correct range. He says it becomes the equivalent of invert syrup No. 1. Looking back at my notes for the is brew, I added the Demerara sugar near the end of the boil. I doubt it boiled 15 minutes, but maybe it was never-the-less long enough to invert the sugar? Anyway, it might explain why this brew has good head retention, if indeed inverted syrups improve head retention....I guess my experience with this batch makes me willing to consider the tradition is correct.

I did not use Demerara sugar in the kettle in the two subsequent recipes (only for bulk priming) so it will be interesting to see if the head of those two brews have less staying power. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Hey Christina. I use inverted sugar in all my Belgian batches bar one recipe. The dubbels and quadruples get an inverted 50% dark and 50% white sugar concoction while the tripels and blonde get a 100% white sugar inverted. The only one that doesnt have inverted sugar is the golden strong which is 5kg Pilsener and 1kg dextrose recipe. And that's the one that has the best head retention. The golden strong is carbed to 4.0 and the others to 3.5.

[ChristinaS1]

6 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

If I recall you're not based in Oz are you? I was not familiar with this at all so looked it up and I think it is similar to what we call may call brown sugar. 

Hi Marty,

Demerara sugar is a type of raw sugar from Guyana with a moist, coarse texture. It is made from centrifuged, evaporated cane sugar; it is minimally processed. It is somewhat sticky and has a molasses flavour.  Turbinado sugar is another type of raw sugar that has also been steamed. It is lighter in colour, is free flowing, and has a slight honey flavour. Sugar in the Raw is a brand of turbinado sugar. 

My understanding is that many sugar refiners produce a coarse textured white sugar, spray it with refiners syrup, and call it Demerara sugar. Real Demerara sugar seems hard to come by in Canada, but might be more readily available elsewhere.

What is refiners syrup? It is not molasses. According to this source it is partial inverted sucrose (aka refined white sugar) and contains large amounts of glucose and fructose, and some remaining sucrose; some of the sugars have been caramelized. It does not contain any of the nutrients (vitamins and minerals) or impurities found in molasses.

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/refiners-syrup.html

Since Canada is not a sugar cane producing country, I doubt my bag of "Demerara style sugar" is real Demerara sugar. It probably contains refiners syrup, which is already inverted. That may explain why my adding it at the end of the boil was enough to improve the head retention of my first EB....You might have better luck finding real / raw Demerara sugar in Australia, given you do grow sugar cane. But reading the links to CSR, it seems Hairy is right: their Demerara is just fancy brown sugar (coarse white sugar with a thicker coating of refiners syrup).

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited July 28, 2019 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

5 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Hey Christina. I use inverted sugar in all my Belgian batches bar one recipe. The dubbels and quadruples get an inverted 50% dark and 50% white sugar concoction while the tripels and blonde get a 100% white sugar inverted. The only one that doesnt have inverted sugar is the golden strong which is 5kg Pilsener and 1kg dextrose recipe. And that's the one that has the best head retention. The golden strong is carbed to 4.0 and the others to 3.5.

Do you make it yourself Greeny, or buy it?

My understanding is that Belgian candi syrup is different than British Brewer's Invert syrup. For one, the Brits start with raw / unrefined cane sugar, whereas the Belgians use beet sugar. Also, the Brits use more water, lower temperatures, and acid to invert the sugar. Less is known about the Belgian process so I am not sure what grade they start with but I think it might be white / refined sugar. Apparently they use less water, higher temperature, an alkaline agent, and a nitrogen source (which might be added if they start with refined sugar, or occur naturally if they start with unrefined sugar).

Cheers,

Christina.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

19 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Do you make it yourself Greeny, or buy it?

My understanding is that Belgian candi syrup is different than British Brewer's Invert syrup. For one, the Brits start with raw / unrefined cane sugar, whereas the Belgians use beet sugar. Also, the Brits use more water, lower temperatures, and acid to invert the sugar. Less is known about the Belgian process so I am not sure what grade they start with but I think it might be white / refined sugar. Apparently they use less water, higher temperature, an alkaline agent, and a nitrogen source (which might be added if they start with refined sugar, or occur naturally if they start with unrefined sugar).

Cheers,

Christina.

Yeah make it myself Christina. I bought Belgian Candi sugar once and for me it made no difference to the final product. I use cane sugar and acid like the brits. I don't go to hard crack and leave it in a liquid state as it's easier to use that way. Never used it in my English beers but I will give it a go next time. Maybe 300 grams or so and see if it does anything different.

[ben 10]

On 7/23/2019 at 8:00 PM, Beerlust said:

Bramling Cross flavour

Still fermenting. But BERRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!