ChristinaS1 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) I have been in England a couple times and enjoyed some great, sessionable English Bitters. I am interested in creating one. I know others on the forum are also lovers of good bitters and thought I would start a thread on the subject. Of course what constitutes a great English Bitter is a moving target, as it changes over time. I have been doing some reading (again) on the Shut up about Barkley Perkins blogpost and see that the use of crystal malts in Bitters is a relatively recent phenomenon. In the past they were largely made with British Pale malt (ie., Maris Otter etc), mild malt (similar to Vienna) and ~15% inverted sugar No. 2 or 3, and fermented with house yeast (usually multiple species). Styles also varied from region to region. Instructions here on how to make inverted sugar can be found here: http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert/comment-page-1 Has anyone ever tried to make it? Did you brew a Bitter with it? How did it turn out? Cheers, Christina. Edited June 9, 2019 by ChristinaS1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I haven't tried to make it. Usually my bitters are all malt or a small amount of raw sugar is added near the end of the boil. I'd like to try some golden syrup in one too. Just need some more English hops to do another batch or two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Hi Christina, I make it a fair bit but for belgian beers rather than english bitters. Simple to make. Just dont forget the acid or you will have a mess. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I haven’t made inverted sugar. I recall some people on here making a long time ago. Not sure what the search function will turn up though. I will make a few over English Bitters over winter. I have a new pack of Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale in the fridge and will keep that going for a while. The right yeast makes a huge difference in English Bitters, it can really elevate them from good to great. I also have an old pouch of Wyeast 1099 Whitbread Ale yeast I am planning on saving. Not sure what I will do with that one yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 Have also seen some Bitter recipes floating around using a small percentage of home toasted malt to add a layer of toast flavours / biscuit. I am thinking of toasting malted wheat instead of malted barley. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I haven't tried to make it. Usually my bitters are all malt or a small amount of raw sugar is added near the end of the boil. I'd like to try some golden syrup in one too. Just need some more English hops to do another batch or two. Raw sugar / Turbinado "should" provide a similar result (although Ron Pattinson says it doesn't) and is a lot easier. I might try that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I was on a British home brew forum for a while a few years back & I remember quite a few of them using invert sugar. This was the link I got from those guys. http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 They taste good to me but in the interests of science and my interest in making stuff myself I might have a crack at making invert sugar some time I make another Bitter. I don't think it's a terribly complicated process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I know that guy from “bronzed brews” has a recipe in there somewhere from invert sugars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Beerlust said: I was on a British home brew forum for a while a few years back & I remember quite a few of them using invert sugar. This was the link I got from those guys. http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert Cheers, Lusty. Hey Lusty, thanks. That is the same link I posted. Great minds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: They taste good to me but in the interests of science and my interest in making stuff myself I might have a crack at making invert sugar some time I make another Bitter. I don't think it's a terribly complicated process. Cool Kelsey. I look forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 What is the purpose of the sugar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: What is the purpose of the sugar? The inverted sugar is a glucose isomer created by heat and promotes head retention. Pretty sure that is it. Oh and naturally it adds to ABV and to some degree taste. I am a Kit, Kilo and additions brewer and I now always dissolve on the cook top my fermentables and wort in a few litres of very hot water that I HAD bought to the boil. It has improved the head and taste considerably. I think! Edited June 10, 2019 by MartyG1525230263 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Hmm, pretty sure an EB wouldn't need help with head retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: They taste good to me but in the interests of science and my interest in making stuff myself I might have a crack at making invert sugar some time I make another Bitter. I don't think it's a terribly complicated process. Its as easy as boiling an egg. Albeit it takes a little more time and observation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Hi Marty, Some say its the reason for the Belgian Lace. Personally I say bullshit. I dont think it does anything for head retention. What it will give you, in belgian beers anyway is a higher ABV without extra body or a cidery taste than if you used straight sugar. The head retention in belgian beers comes exclusively from the higher carbonation. Thats my opinion anyway. Greeny Edited June 10, 2019 by Greeny1525229549 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said: The head retention in belgian beers comes exclusively from the higher carbonation. From malts, proteins I thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: From malts, proteins I thought. Thats the basis for it sure. A full sugar beer aint going to throw anything. But for a lingering head a 4.0 volume will keep a head longer than a 2.3 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: I don't agree. You dont think the same beer carbed to 4.0 volume will keep a head any more than a 2.3 one?? Im mashing a belgian dark strong right now. Ill sacrifice a bottle to prove you wrong Edited June 10, 2019 by Greeny1525229549 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 It would if a nucleated glass was used, but if it's a smooth glass without anything to cause bubbles to form and rise, then it's the integrity of the foam itself that keeps it there, not the carbonation level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Ill try it in about 2 months. Belgain chalice and non nucleated ikea glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ben 10 said: What is the purpose of the sugar? You mean the inverted sugar? I think the purpose is mainly flavour, but perhaps also to lighten the body. The impurities in the raw cane sugar lead to Maillard reactions. http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html In other words it is not just caramel flavours from heating the sugar. Reading the instructions for the dilution method makes me wonder why you couldn't just use refined sugar (to thin the body) plus a bit of blackstrap molasses (for the caramel and Maillard flavours). I don't see the point of first inverting the refined sugar. Cheers, Christina. Edited June 10, 2019 by ChristinaS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said: You mean the inverted sugar? Inverted or not... just the sugar in a beer. I thought it gave nothing but ABV? I know the historical Australian beers used it because it was cheaper than malt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) We don't even have any refined sugar in the house. Wonder what the outcome of inverting raw sugar would be. Edited June 10, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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