ozlizard Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Well as we are not planning on getting to the brew shop in the near future I bought what they had locally. not exactly what the recipe calls for, so here we go! For a 10lt brew (half the recipe) I have 1 x tin of Coopers Aussie Pale Ale, 1 x 500g box of Light Dry Malt (recipe calls for 750g of Light Malt Extract, same thing ?) and 2 x 12g packets of Morgan's Brew bag hops (Citra). I will just use the yeast that comes with the tin. Will this go ok and how should I use the hops, one at the beginning and one dry hop later or both in at the start? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 22 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: They'll keep going indefinitely but they usually mutate and end up being quite different from what they were originally. It's just a question of how many generations it takes for it to be noticed. I had some US-05 that I was reusing until it threw this bloody awful phenolic shit flavour in a batch. Was about 8 or 9 generations. I threw it out and started with a fresh one next batch and it was fine. That is just such practicality-experience-coooool Kelsey - luvyerwork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ozlizard said: For a 10lt brew (half the recipe) I have 1 x tin of Coopers Aussie Pale Ale, 1 x 500g box of Light Dry Malt (recipe calls for 750g of Light Malt Extract, same thing ?) and 2 x 12g packets of Morgan's Brew bag hops (Citra). I will just use the yeast that comes with the tin. Hey G'day OzLiz, mate I think there are some questions here I will leave to the Brains Trust on the site... especially the hop matter. But am wondering why you would do 10L? or are you on the smaller fermenter bandwagon? If so - why not! Have you got the famous Ian's XL Spreadsheet? That is good for working out ABV likelihood... I am not a Pale Ale Freak... but I don't think it sounds too bad... but probably on the lighter side of life... Recently did a Coopers Stout... in 23L... and used 2.3kg of Light Dry Malt... Big thing then is Temp Control... BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 10 hours ago, BlackSands said: And really, if you had concerns about over-pitching it would be very easy to simply scoop out some of the slurry before pouring in the wort. Lag times when using this method are extremely short! Does not Kelsey say that w Lagers-Pilseners there is no such thing as an overpitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozlizard Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said: mate I think there are some questions here I will leave to the Brains Trust on the site... especially the hop matter Cheers BB. The hops I will probably do as per the recipe, so one at the start and then after about 2 days. I don't have that spreadsheet, where can I find it, sounds handy. I am doing 10lt because I have just enough bottles and wanted to try something in a smaller brew size. I am guessing that using slightly less LDM would reduce the ABV? As it's 7.1 to start with there is a bit of headroom there! Temps should be good for this brew around 18-21 which is exactly the range my brew room (read pantry) stays at pretty constantly. We have a very well insulated house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, ozlizard said: Cheers BB. The hops I will probably do as per the recipe, so one at the start and then after about 2 days. I don't have that spreadsheet, where can I find it, sounds handy. I am doing 10lt because I have just enough bottles and wanted to try something in a smaller brew size. I am guessing that using slightly less LDM would reduce the ABV? As it's 7.1 to start with there is a bit of headroom there! Temps should be good for this brew around 18-21 which is exactly the range my brew room (read pantry) stays at pretty constantly. We have a very well insulated house! Mate I think that all sounds pretty good... Yep. And honestly... you learn as you go... and at 10L... with full can... suspect will be good. I am on dodgy new computer so do not have old links... to attach... will see if I can find in email and email it to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) DDDDODGY new computer... cannot forward... cannot cut and paste... think it is something to do with Microsoft licencing… I told the USEFUL helpdesk that this was an issue... oh no... it'll be fine... fer fffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar sake.... so mate... apologise… cannot do better than cut pic in... hopefully that is able to be used above... Good old NewBrews helped me out when I first was asking about it ; ) Edited May 23, 2019 by Bearded Burbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozlizard Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said: oh no... it'll be fine. LOL cheers BB I am sure that will do the trick! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said: Does not Kelsey say that w Lagers-Pilseners there is no such thing as an overpitch? I think that was greeny who originally said that, but I tend to agree. I wouldn't say it's impossible to do it but pitching a lager onto a yeast cake isn't as much an overpitch as it is with an ale, and isn't likely to change the beer's flavour profile like it can with an ale. Lagers are meant to be clean anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 18 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I think that was greeny who originally said that, but I tend to agree. I wouldn't say it's impossible to do it but pitching a lager onto a yeast cake isn't as much an overpitch as it is with an ale, and isn't likely to change the beer's flavour profile like it can with an ale. Lagers are meant to be clean anyway. Aaaah good call Kelsey - I did not footnote my sources ; ) And from memory it was a comment someone else had made that you had noted no such thing as an overpitch for lagers-pils.. So was 'hearsay' to begin with?! So you got me there yer Grizzly Bear... great stuff But to sum up.... the key takeaway message is... more yeast for Lagers is no bad thing... but too much yeast on an Ale pitch may affect flavours? Does that sound like a reasonable rule of thumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Pretty much yeah. The main reason I don't do it with lagers myself is because I never brew two of them in a row. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Pretty much yeah. The main reason I don't do it with lagers myself is because I never brew two of them in a row. Cheers mate. So what is the result of an overpitch on an Ale... does it thin it out a little regards body or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Basically not as much flavour BB. Not as much reproduction of cells. I did a dump onto the cake a few times and noticed it with Ales. I still use slurry sometimes but measure it out based on 1.5bn cells per ml. Even then it ain't foolproof as evidenced by my toucan stout crapping out early with a slurry despite me thinking there should be heaps of yeast there. If you are doing something that has a lot of yeast derived flavours I wouldn't do it either. Belgians, saisons etc. You want to be sure of what you are pitching. But with cleaner ale type yeasts US05/1056 etc. I say give it a try. As Kelsey said I do dumps onto lager yeast cakes very regularly. I will often make 3 in a row off the same initial yeast starter. I find it works fantastic. No different to making a 3L starter except you save 4 bucks or so of ldme each time. And it starts fast and finishes quicker too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) The survival rate of yeast cells collected from slurry in a home brewing environment differs immensely due to differing factors of the condition of the starting yeast used for the initial brew, ferment temps, spoilage influences, & unknown collection levels based on unknown survival rates against the pitching rate vs the gravity being asked to primary ferment said wort. Thus re-use from slurry carries a lot of unknowns with the impact yeast derived flavours generated through required cell division rates etc. will impart on the final beer. If commercial breweries followed this practice from brew to brew you would not have a consistent beer batch after batch, so why should you expect any different level of consistency by following the practice as a home brewer? When it comes to yeast influence on flavours & consistency of fermentation, measured dosage rates of pure yeast volumes are the only way to guarantee that level of consistency. After rambling for a bit there, it is generally considered with our re-pitch from slurry practices, very hard to overpitch by enough in a home brewing scenario to adversely affect the final beer in an obvious negative way. It's not too say it can't or hasn't happened, it's just very rare. I've re-pitched directly onto a yeast cake a handful of times with no adverse affects, but have only done it the once on that same yeast base. After that second brew, the yeast & trub is tossed. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Edited May 24, 2019 by Beerlust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Good summary lusty. I'd love to know what the commercial lager guys do with there ferments. CUB and lion etc.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Greeny1525229549 said: Good summary lusty. I'd love to know what the commercial lager guys do with there ferments. CUB and lion etc.. Me too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 37 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said: Good summary lusty. I'd love to know what the commercial lager guys do with there ferments. CUB and lion etc.. Me too... but suspect they may not have the level of scrutiny and excellence available on this site... besides their results may be - to some - not all - questionable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 They reuse their yeast over multiple batches but obviously the harvesting process would be a bit more in depth than sloppy slurry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: They reuse their yeast over multiple batches but obviously the harvesting process would be a bit more in depth than sloppy slurry... I suspect you are right Kelsey... I was more having a quiet crack at their results.... i.e. plenty commercial beer out there seems to be thin, watery and producing of headaches ; ) As opposed to Coopers of course. Tho am thinking my Toucan DAT Coops Dark Ale plus Lager kit brew on rainwater result might challenge even BES!?! If I was so foolish as to even considering entering a bottle into the big comp thing - where would it live? i.e. which Category... Any ideas Kelsey or anyone? Need to sort myself out on this as there are only a handful left and they are going fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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