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Coopers Aussie Pale ale


Jackamundi

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The Coopers Pale Ale recipe calls for S33 yeast but I can only get 03 or 23 locally and what I know about yeast could be written on the head of a microbe. Any difference? Also it says to use Coopers Commercial Yeast as well, which I am assuming is the one that comes with the tin? If I am only  doing a half batch do I still need both yeasts?

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59 minutes ago, ozlizard said:

The Coopers Pale Ale recipe calls for S33 yeast but I can only get 03 or 23 locally and what I know about yeast could be written on the head of a microbe. Any difference? Also it says to use Coopers Commercial Yeast as well, which I am assuming is the one that comes with the tin? If I am only  doing a half batch do I still need both yeasts?

I use Liberty Bell M36 and makes a great beer ... I actually only use 3 yeast at the moment as they are the ones i have harvested/washed ....  W34/70 US 05 and M36 ... 

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18 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

I use Liberty Bell M36 and makes a great beer ... I actually only use 3 yeast at the moment as they are the ones i have harvested/washed ....  W34/70 US 05 and M36 ... 

Yeah didn't realise there were so many, with wine I use basically one yeast. Looks like I might have to make a trip to the nearest Brew Shop. I have an empty fermenter and have "freed" up enough bottles. Unacceptable situation!

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2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

actually only use 3 yeast at the moment as they are the ones i have harvested/washed ....  W34/70 US 05 and M36 ... 

When u say washed?  Am keen to harvest n store yeast - Wot is washing?

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38 minutes ago, ozlizard said:

Bunbury, Big Gals Brew Shed. Should have what I need there.

 

Yep, sure will. They’ll order stuff for you to like liquid yeasts etc so don’t be afraid to ask for stuff like that either. If it’s ordered by Wednesday you’ll be able to pick up Saturday. Just FYI

Edited by The Captain!!
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1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Can be meaning yeast harvested out of Coops Pale Ale n cultured up... 

That's exactly what it means. Kit yeasts are referred to as just that, whenever Coopers commercial yeast is mentioned it refers to the yeast in the bottles and cans. 

Washing yeast is basically just rinsing out all the unwanted crap that also ends up in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter, so you end up with mostly clean yeast. It was the reason I gave up reusing yeast when I first had a go at it because I found it a tedious pain in the arse, and the "sloppy slurry" method hadn't really been discussed at the time. Then I found the starter method and started up again and haven't looked back. Similarly clean yeast without rinsing/washing it. 

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13 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

When u say washed?  Am keen to harvest n store yeast - Wot is washing?

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11 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Washing yeast is basically just rinsing out all the unwanted crap that also ends up in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter, so you end up with mostly clean yeast.

 

I don't wash the yeast either I used that term  as some people do .... regardless either way it is harvested from the trub ...  trub harvesting  is piss easy to do and use .... right now i am using 4th generation US 05 and 3rd gen W34/70 and M 36 ...  I also have loads of kit yeast sitting in the fridge ready to use just in case the harvested yeast has limited life span ... not sure how long it will last but I have read guys up to generation 8 or 9 ....  when i want to use the harvested yeast I take it out of the fridge the morning I want to use it and let it warm up for 3 or 4 hours ... then I drain of any most the liquid give it a swirl to get the slurry nice and sloppy and pitch ... works a treat ... and saves  about $5 per brew ... 

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Next time try pitching it cold straight from the fridge. Some reading I did a while ago suggested that this is actually better for the yeast than letting it warm up for hours first. I started doing it, got quicker lag times and no negative effect on the beer. 

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1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Next time try pitching it cold straight from the fridge. Some reading I did a while ago suggested that this is actually better for the yeast than letting it warm up for hours first. I started doing it, got quicker lag times and no negative effect on the beer. 

Ditto.  

2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

... I have read guys up to generation 8 or 9 ....  

There's a dude on YT - "Craigtube" that took US-05 up to 20-odd generations, apparently without issue.

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18 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Washing yeast is basically just rinsing out all the unwanted crap that also ends up in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter, so you end up with mostly clean yeast. It was the reason I gave up reusing yeast when I first had a go at it because I found it a tedious pain in the arse, and the "sloppy slurry" method hadn't really been discussed at the time. Then I found the starter method and started up again and haven't looked back. Similarly clean yeast without rinsing/washing it. 

Thanks mate.  Agree.  Right... yes well I am not interested in introducing more water with potential contaminants in it or through any 'washing process'... I just decant into Steri Glass Jars and re-use.   Could it be true that dry-yeast packs fire up faster than trub-saved-yeast?

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3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I've gone up to 15 with my starter method. I'd think you'd have to be pretty lucky to take it that high with the sloppy slurry method, but it's possible I spose.  

Given it is a living organism... unless there was something in the series of Worts that was driving them to adapt in strange ways... I sorta think they should be able to keep going... [mind you without researching any scientific literature when I say this]

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23 hours ago, ozlizard said:

Yeah didn't realise there were so many, with wine I use basically one yeast. Looks like I might have to make a trip to the nearest Brew Shop. 

I reckon the dry yeast packs work pretty well... think liquid yeast is a bit more expensive... I would suggest giving the dry yeast packs a go first up...  or just Coops Tin Yeast... not had any trouble with those at all in the past...

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19 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Then I found the starter method and started up again and haven't looked back. Similarly clean yeast without rinsing/washing it. 

So Kelsey - what do you mean by the 'Starter Method'...  a 'similarly clean yeast withouth rinsing/washing' ? 

Just using slurry yeast - and culturing up a population to pitch or ?

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2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Given it is a living organism... unless there was something in the series of Worts that was driving them to adapt in strange ways... I sorta think they should be able to keep going... [mind you without researching any scientific literature when I say this]

They'll keep going indefinitely but they usually mutate and end up being quite different from what they were originally. It's just a question of how many generations it takes for it to be noticed. 

I had some US-05 that I was reusing until it threw this bloody awful phenolic shit flavour in a batch. Was about 8 or 9 generations. I threw it out and started with a fresh one next batch and it was fine.

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1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

They'll keep going indefinitely but they usually mutate and end up being quite different from what they were originally. It's just a question of how many generations it takes for it to be noticed. 

I had some US-05 that I was reusing until it threw this bloody awful phenolic shit flavour in a batch. Was about 8 or 9 generations. I threw it out and started with a fresh one next batch and it was fine.

So you recommend probably around every 5 - 6 reuses to start fresh again with a new dry pack?

I am currently on my 2nd reuse with my US-05.

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I think it depends. I've taken other strains at least 15 generations without any noticeable difference to the beers fermented with them. All done with the same method. 

I think the sloppy slurry method could potentially cause the difference to appear after less generations because the yeast are likely fermenting different worts every time, as opposed to starters that are pretty much the same wort every time. Cleanliness and sanitation obviously play a role too though. 

I'd just keep using it until you get a batch that doesn't quite taste like it should. When that one of mine failed, the previous batch exhibited the same off flavour but only slightly. I should have just chucked the yeast after that one. 

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14 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

 Could it be true that dry-yeast packs fire up faster than trub-saved-yeast?

No.  Well, certainly not in my experience!  I use slurry often, usually up to about 3 or 4 generations. In all instances the lag has been around 6 hours or so, and sometimes much quicker than that.  One slight unknown when using slurry is the actual quantity to pitch as you can't really know the cell viability and density of the slurry.    I don't measure the quantity I pitch as such, but rather just throw in a 'jar full' -  which I guess is around 250g.  It's an imprecise way of inoculating your wort but as long as you avoid an obvious under-pitch there's really nothing to worry about. 

An extension of this 'sloppy slurry' method, and a reasonably common practice is pouring a batch of freshly prepared wort straight onto the yeast cake from a previous batch.  I've tried this method a coupe of times.  Immediately after bottling/kegging a batch of fresh (cooled) wort is then poured into the FV.  Technically this represents a gross over-pitch though like others I never actually noticed any obvious issue with the final beer.   And really, if you had concerns about over-pitching it would be very easy to simply scoop out some of the slurry before pouring in the wort.  Lag times when using this method are extremely short! 

Edited by BlackSands
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The only issue you'd have with a big overpitch is that the beer could end up a bit bland. A fair amount of the flavour influence the yeast brings occurs during the reproduction phase. This is also why pitching temp is somewhat important.

It's probably not great for the yeast cells themselves either; given the lack of reproduction the cells are old and already been through one fermentation. Obviously reproduction provides fresh new cells.

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