First brew questions & where to next?

[ozlizard]

Ok punched in some numbers into the Brewers Friend recipe editor with the hops adjusted to 20g of each 30min boil and the same at flame out. 

OG 1.58

FG 1.005

AVB 6.96%

IBU 61.31

Efficiency 75%

The IBU seems pretty high, I really didn't want it too bitter but that might be consistent with the style? 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Take out one of the 30 minute additions and it'll probably drop back more around the 45 mark. 

It does take a bit of mucking around to get used to software and your brewing system itself to get it all in sync and whatnot, but it does make it easier to design beers to turn out the way you want them to.

[ozlizard]

14 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Take out one of the 30 minute additions and it'll probably drop back more around the 45 mark

Spot on

 

[Popo the Reprobate]

Ah, looks like you've got it all sorted

Otto's advice is about the best you can get. 

I'd second the software. Once you figure it out, it's good to move quantities and timings around to see how they change things.

 

[ozlizard]

Ended up with this:

Title: Saison

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 19 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 28.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.043
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 6.92%
IBU (tinseth): 42.35
SRM (morey): 4.22
Mash pH: 0

FERMENTABLES:
2.7 kg - Pilsner (53.5%)
1.8 kg - Wheat (35.7%)
0.227 kg - Munich - Light 10L (4.5%)
0.318 kg - Cane Sugar (6.3%)

HOPS:
12 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 14.44
12 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 11.29
12 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Aroma for 15 min, IBU: 9.33
12 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Aroma for 15 min, IBU: 7.29

YEAST:
Danstar - Belle Saison Yeast
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 80%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 17.22 - 23.89 C
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

 

[Popo the Reprobate]

Awesome. Good luck  I hope you enjoy it.

If you've got any left, I reckon a little dry hop would work well too. Definitely not essential in this one though.

[ozlizard]

Yeah thanks Popo, I did think about dry hopping it as there are not a lot of hops in there, we shall see.

[Popo the Reprobate]

The yeast will bring a fair bit of flavour to the party. Wait until you try the hydrometer sample and go from there. I think the original recipe only suggests about 30 gram dry hop of Citra. I've used 50 each time and it's been good for me. You could easily leave it out though. It's not stricly to style anyway so you can make it up as you go along.

[ozlizard]

While my Saison is sorting itself out before bottling I got to thinking (as you do ) about my next brew. I want to do the NEIPA recipe that I used last time because I was stoked at how it turned out and aim to get  a brew bottled for spring/early summer. The recipe called for 1kg ale malt and 350g of flaked oats and one tin of Coopers Pale Ale. Next time I want the replace the tin with grain but not sure how to go about converting it.

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

20 hours ago, ozlizard said:

replace the tin with grain

Have a Google for Gash Slugs AG NEIPA recipe. I think he did it before the partial mash one.

[ozlizard]

1 hour ago, NewBrews said:

Have a Google for Gash Slugs AG NEIPA recipe. I think he did it before the partial mash one.

Thanks man, had a look but it seems as though I wouldn't have the equipment for that so I will stick to the partial mash for now. No problems with the result anyway so happy to do again.

[Otto Von Blotto]

You'd probably need about 2.5kg of grain to achieve a similar SG contribution to a kit. I don't know what grains make up the kit though, obviously pale malt is a large part of it. And then you'd have to do the bittering as well. 

Still, moot point if you don't have the means for a full AG brew.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[ozlizard]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Still, moot point if you don't have the means for a full AG brew.

Yeah I was thinking of BIAB whereas the recipe is a full on mash. If it turns out as good as last time then all good, happy days. Down the track I will get into full AG, when I have my brew room built under the house

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

Nothing to say you can’t BIAB that. You might just need to adjust your grain bill a smidge.

[ozlizard]

Just now, NewBrews said:

Nothing to say you can’t BIAB that. You might just need to adjust your grain bill a smidge.

Yeah I guess so but it seemed like a lot of grain which makes the whole process a bit more difficult. I think that waiting until I have a bit more experience is a good idea, as well as waiting to see how my AG Saison turns out!

[Otto Von Blotto]

BIAB is a full on mash. It just skips the sparge step. Basically you mash the grains in a big bag using the entire amount of the water needed, as opposed to the more traditional method of mashing in one vessel with less water, then rinsing the grains with hot water to make up the boil volume and extract more sugars (the sparge).

Every one of my AG beers has been brewed using the BIAB method. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[ozlizard]

40 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

BIAB is a full on mash. It just skips the sparge step. Basically you mash the grains in a big bag using the entire amount of the water needed, as opposed to the more traditional method of mashing in one vessel with less water, then rinsing the grains with hot water to make up the boil volume and extract more sugars (the sparge).

Every one of my AG beers has been brewed using the BIAB method. 

Ok both times I have done a BIAB I actually sparged the grain bags in a separate container to get most sugars out of them and poured the water back into the mash. I guess what I was trying to say is the recipe described the steps as a full mash using different equipment so I didn't really understand it and don't know enough yet to convert the steps to BIAB. I will use the recipe I used before as I want to replicate the results but will definitely do a FG after that.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I think you're getting confused by your own terminology. If you have done BIAB, sparge or not, you've already done a full AG brew unless extract was added to it in which case it's a partial mash brew. BIAB isn't different to AG, it's just a different method of brewing AG. 

If you do BIAB without a sparge, the water that would have been used for the sparge gets added at the beginning. Say you mash in 20 litres of water and sparge with 15 litres. In BIAB you'd mash in 35 litres of water and not bother with the sparge step. That is the original way of doing BIAB, but there's nothing stopping you from sparging it if you choose to. 

[ozlizard]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I think you're getting confused by your own terminology.

Yeah sorry otto I wasn't explaining it very well, I have done a BIAB with extract and one with AG.

[ozlizard]

Had a few tastes of the Saison, first one was pretty early so a bit raw and not enough carbonation. Cracked a bottle with the neighbors on the weekend. Carbonation was good, not much of  a head, but not too bad. Pale straw in colour. Unfortunately he said it tasted like his favorite beer. XXXX. I dispatched him as painlessly as possible. (he is 80 so it was his time, plus his taste buds are probably shot!)

Had a couple last night and it is definitely improving. good carbonation and pretty good head. Reckon it could have done with more hops, but then maybe it would be getting away from the style? The taste is an acquired one I would say. Definitely different, but drinkable. I think on a hot day they would go down pretty well! Cheer for all the advice!

[The Captain!!]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:30 AM, ozlizard said:

Had a few tastes of the Saison, first one was pretty early so a bit raw and not enough carbonation. Cracked a bottle with the neighbors on the weekend. Carbonation was good, not much of  a head, but not too bad. Pale straw in colour. Unfortunately he said it tasted like his favorite beer. XXXX. I dispatched him as painlessly as possible. (he is 80 so it was his time, plus his taste buds are probably shot!)

Had a couple last night and it is definitely improving. good carbonation and pretty good head. Reckon it could have done with more hops, but then maybe it would be getting away from the style? The taste is an acquired one I would say. Definitely different, but drinkable. I think on a hot day they would go down pretty well! Cheer for all the advice!

Good stuff Ozlizard. I find Saison fair pretty good with age. 

A have one that’s been bottle conditioned for 4 months at room temp then is now in the fridge. Coming up 12 months in September. I’ll crack it then. 

More hops??? Not out of style, but the style is more yeast driven. I’ve had quite a few hop bomb Saison’s that were good but I prefer the aged ones myself. It’s a good style because you can literally do anything with it. 

If you go more hops, they’ll be great at the start, then as they fade and yeast comes to town and it’s like drinking a whole other beer. 

Good work on having a crack.

[ozlizard]

25 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Good stuff Ozlizard. I find Saison fair pretty good with age. 

A have one that’s been bottle conditioned for 4 months at room temp then is now in the fridge. Coming up 12 months in September. I’ll crack it then. 

More hops??? Not out of style, but the style is more yeast driven. I’ve had quite a few hop bomb Saison’s that were good but I prefer the aged ones myself. It’s a good style because you can literally do anything with it. 

If you go more hops, they’ll be great at the start, then as they fade and yeast comes to town and it’s like drinking a whole other beer. 

Good work on having a crack.

Cheers Captain! It's definitely changing very quickly, reckon it will be pretty good in another month or so. First AG brew so pretty happy overall. Think the next one might be another NEIPA though, loved that one.