Infections with Krausen Collar.

[LandyAndy]

Hello.

Im a long time brewer,30 years experience.

2 years ago I needed new fermenters,with some doubt I bought the Coopers fermenters with Krausen Collars.Im getting more infections in my brews than I ever have.I cant get my head around the containers not being airtight.

I use Pink Neo much stronger than recommended,plus leave it on the containers unrinsed when Im not brewing.I doubt steralization is an issue after all these years of being diligent with cleaning.

I don't know that I need the collars,I use the Thomas Cooper brews,they don't develop a huge head whilst brewing,wondering if I should delete them.I must add I don't remove them after 3 days.I never open a brew until Im kegging it off.Not wanting to add fresh air into the brew and inviting the chance of infection.

Im ready to buy sealed fermenters again,had enough of infections.The beer is still drinkable but has off flavours when the keg is first opened,it does improve with age but never as good as a uninfected brew.

Im stuck with having to brew at room temperature,and it is summer so not ideal,yet Ive been brewing this way for 30 years so I still believe its the fermenters.

Thoughts please.Will try to add pics of todays brews.They were "put down" 15/3/19 in the evening.

THANKS

Andrew.

[MitchellScott]

I only use my Krausen Collar if my brew is going to get a large head/krausen on it. Most brews I do, the krausen goes no where near the top even when filled to 23L so I leave it out.

I have done 3 brews in mine so far and haven't had an infection at all.

Sounds like you are cleaning well, do you have a no rinse sanitiser like Starsan or Stellasan? I use it in a spray bottle and spray everything before making a brew to kill any bacteria, then you just start making your brew without rinsing it so there is very very minimal chance of getting an infection. Maybe something to look into. My local brew shop has Stellasan for $10 and the bottle will last you years and years as you only mix 1.5ml/litre of water.

 

Cheers, Mitch.

[LandyAndy]

Thanks.Happy to try a new sanitiser.I use Pink Neo for its ease,and have used it all along.Will leave the collars off the next brew.

Andrew

[MitchellScott]

No problem at all mate.

What are the off flavours you have? Most people will find beers undrinkable if they get infections, with metallic tastes.

I use 100% sodium percarbonate for cleaning/soaking all my brew equipment after brewing. The give it a good rinse and hit it with the Stellasan, then brew. Have never had a problem :).

Let us know how you go!

Mitch.

[Worthog]

Hi Landyandy,

Without knowing the full extent of your process, and recipes, I can only provide some key process steps I do. I use the Coopers FV without collar, have produced probably about 30 batches in that unit, infection free;

• Dismantle tap, wash all parts in hot Sodium Carbonate (detergent salts)
• Rinse all.
• Flush all with specified mixture or Stellasan and cold tap water
• Air dry and put store away from contaminants
• Assembly and swish, with lid on, with Stellasan mixture, coating all, and running some through tap
• Add wort mixture, top with clean tap water. No dirty hoses!
• Put lid on between all additions
• Try to keep ferment temperature between 18-20c for best results (wet towel around unit during day, for example)

I also use a standard 30L carboy with sealed lid and air-lock. Similar number of batches, no infections. I really have no preference between them although the Coopers FV is probably a tad easier.

Cheers

[MitchellScott]

24 minutes ago, Worthog said:

Hi Landyandy,

Without knowing the full extent of your process, and recipes, I can only provide some key process steps I do. I use the Coopers FV without collar, have produced probably about 30 batches in that unit, infection free;

• Dismantle tap, wash all parts in hot Sodium Carbonate (detergent salts)
• Rinse all.
• Flush all with specified mixture or Stellasan and cold tap water
• Air dry and put store away from contaminants
• Assembly and swish, with lid on, with Stellasan mixture, coating all, and running some through tap
• Add wort mixture, top with clean tap water. No dirty hoses!
• Put lid on between all additions
• Try to keep ferment temperature between 18-20c for best results (wet towel around unit during day, for example)

I also use a standard 30L carboy with sealed lid and air-lock. Similar number of batches, no infections. I really have no preference between them although the Coopers FV is probably a tad easier.

Cheers

Pretty much my steps to a tee.

You can't go wrong following that

[Otto Von Blotto]

I don't have one of those Coopers fermenters but I do use my airlock style ones in much the same way. The airlock and grommet is removed, the hole taped over and the lid not fully tightened to allow the gas to escape. Never had a problem. 

I wonder whether it might be something to do with using that cleaner at such a strong ratio and not rinsing it off. More isn't always better with these chemicals. They have a recommended dilution rate for a reason. 

Other than that, fermenting without temperature control in summer isn't gonna produce great tasting beer regardless of infection happening. You will improve your beers if you start doing this.

[headmaster]

+ 1 for getting rid of that Pink cleaner if it's the same as pink stain remover. The guy at my LHBS says he only stocks that because people have been used to using it for a long time, but he says he would never recommend this stuff now. 

Soaking in sodium percarbonate then no rinse sanitiser, either phosphoric acid based like starsan or iodine based 'iodophor'. I use the latter. Have run 88 batches no worries, using this coopers FV I don't use the krausen collar, but that should not cause issues if you do. 

[PaddyBrew2]

Krausen collar is just another piece of plastic at the end of the day. It’s how these pieces of plastic are maintained and sanitised is the issue. Old habits die hard but I would stop using the pink shite 

[PB2]

From your pics, the brews look quite normal.

Perhaps it would be worth your while to shoot through an email to:

customerservice@coopers.com.au

Side note - been fermenting with the new Coopers DIY Beer FV since 2009 (it was released for sale in 2010 ) and not one infected beer.  That said, if you can't be confident with the equipment you are using, change it.
 

[Snap]

I just had 5 brews go sour using Cooper Fermenters in one hit and the other was an air lock container and brew was good, nothing has been changed in over 3 years of brewing Coopers Draught so very unsure. Never had an issue before and we brew 6 fermenters at once all the time when brewing.

Sad to throw away 160 tall bottles of beer.

[headmaster]

1 hour ago, Snap said:

I just had 5 brews go sour using

Sounds like you have an Acetobacter contamination in your brewing gear. This is the bacteria that makes vinegar or acetic acid. 

It is actually normal to have some of this in some wild or mixed fermentation beers. 

It is an aerobic bacteria, so will be actively generating acetic acid when exposed to oxygen. 

Beer in a coopers FV should not be exposed to oxygen, unless you disturb it too much, or rack to another vessel incorrectly or if you bottle without using a bottling wand. 

(The bottling wand makes a massive difference here, I have seen evidence of this when a mate made some cider with mulberry. He bottled some with wand and some by just splashing into the bottle as an experiment. The splashed ones were not at all nice and the mulberry deep purple colour had gone an ugly brown due to O2. The ones filled with the wand were very tasty, and still deep purple. )

To kill the bacteria in your vessels, you may need to hit them with something stronger than Perc. Like bleach diluted 20:1 in water. BTW bleach is actually more effective at this ratio, rather than using pure bleach I once read. 

I'd say your airlock container is just not yet contaminated, and or you are opening the coopers ones up too much and disturbing the CO2 layer that protects the beer. But I could be way off track. 

 

[The Captain!!]

Either that or an iodine based sanitizer. Like bleach it’ll kill everything 

[Snap]

Morning all, Thanks for the quick reply I appreciate it. 

I have always ensured no oxygen is introduced when bottling and always use a wand.

When sterilising the fermenters I use the Pink Sanitiser then dry in full sun after good rinse. Like I said never had a problem ever, and the Coopers Fermenters were brand new, sterilised & rinsed as per normal cleaning methods ?

I am a fisherman so I know about cleanliness and bacteria.

The fermenters are in room away from everything and never disturbed, The new fermenters all had floaties in them which never seen before looking like white bubbles that eventually sank ?

I now have another brew down x 6 fermenters & only 1 is the new Coopers Fermenter which I cut off the lid handles & drilled a hole in lid for grommet & air lock, threw the collar away and wrapped it in cling wrap where lid sits on container. So there is an air lock now and hoping it will help. Will definitely stop oxygen getting in.

It will do my head in if I ever have to throw away that much beer again.

Like I said, thanks again it is good to get advise off others when in doubt.

Have a great day everyone & enjoy your cold beer at the end of it.

[The Captain!!]

Hope it goes well for ya @Snap

nothing worse than pouring beer down the drain or watering the lawn with it. 

At least it wasn’t good beer you were throwing away. I also now understand why you gave 6 FVs. Fishermen...............

let us know if the next batch goes alright.