karlos_1984 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I made just the basic K&K of Coopers APA using 1kg of light dry malt, to 21 litres, with Coopers commercial ale yest, fermented at 21 degrees for a couple weeks. Its been in the bottle just under a month and it's still rubbish. Should I expect this to get any better with age? For info, it tastes nothing at all like Cooper's Pale ale. It's much darker, and has that noticeable sweetness that comes with a kit beer, not much bitterness at all. I only made it to use up stuff in the cupboard and as a quick easy lazy brew as I was time poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The taste may improve with more time but the bitterness won’t increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Interesting ... that is the 1st time I have heard about an APA kit turn out crap ... for so many brewers it is the stock standard kit to fall back on ... I wonder if there were problems with the temp control ... all the brews that I have had that turned out far darker than they should where fermented with temperatures that fluctuating quite markedly during the ferment ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smash Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 What does it taste like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I use that kit a lot. Its my old mans favourite and i usually mash 4kg of grain and do 2 batches at once. CCA yeast i always use and 21c is far too hot for that yeast. Its pear city right there. 21L is right as that is about the right bitterness but try it at 18c fermenting. You will get a much better result. Also overpitch that yeast as well. For a 21L batch pitch a 1.5L to 2L starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Tastes sweet with that kit twang I've come to expect. Temp control was 21 degrees constant in my inkbird controlled fridge. I usually do 18 degrees but the recipe on this website said 21 degrees. Can anyone honestly say they've made this with CCA yeast and had it turn out anywhere remotely similar to the real thing? I've got over 2 cartons of this shit to get thru... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I did this my last brew. No temp control, so fermented around 25C (or more!), used a BE2-type mix, and threw in 50g cascade and 100 mosaic. Still pretty average. Very drinkable, not sweet, but very little flavour from my hop addition. I've had far better beers from Black Rock, brewed under the same conditions. You only used malt and no hops, so IMO/short experience, that'll make a sweeter beer. If I'm just using malt, I'll up the hops additions to counter balance malty sweetness. I wouldn't expect it to taste like cooper classic green, even with the coopers yeast. It's just a basic PA kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 I'll prob tip it then. I need the stubbies for other decent beers. Hands down my shittest beer to date. I'll stick to my partials from here on until I move to BIAB I rkn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Kit and LDM definitely makes a darker honey colored beer. I had to go All Grain (biab) to get back to lighter, straw colored beer, using grains of EBC 3-7, like Trad Ale, Maris, Vienna, with specialty grain Carapils. The Kit plus malt only will always be too sweet. You could maybe try a 30m hop boil with malt to get some hop flavour and perceived bitterness using some Saaz for instance. Better to go the freshness of AG BIAB, though. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 You'd get more than perceived bitterness from a 30 minute boil and the hops should compliment the style. Saaz in a pale ale is a bit odd. I'm actually having the opposite issue with beer colour in some batches like lagers, they're sometimes too light. I don't really like the pale straw colour because it reminds me too much of bland American shit beer. I like them more golden like Urquell or Budvar. I increased the black malt in my last pilsner so I'll find out how that worked when I keg it. Hops shouldn't be required with kit beers to make the bitterness balanced with the malt sweetness. Perhaps fermenting it at 21 degrees has produced some esters from the yeast that are making it taste sweeter. At the end of the day though, if you're not enjoying the beer there's no point keeping it. Overly sweet beer isn't very nice to me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Hops shouldn't be required with kit beers to make the bitterness balanced with the malt sweetness. Perhaps fermenting it at 21 degrees has produced some esters from the yeast that are making it taste sweeter. I've done a few kits with just malt before I got into adding hops. I think they were all too sweet for my tastes. None more so than the Coopers bootmakers, where coopers 'recipe' was just to ferment with 1.5 LDM. This was a stupidly sweet, thick tasting beer that made me question coopers thinking. Shortly after that beer I started doing hop additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 I only made this to experiment with the CCA yeast to see what it'd turn out like. The recipe on here suggests it comes out close to the original, but that's rubbish. I've always done hop additions be it thru hop teas, late additions or partial mashes. Always have dry hopped as well. The only other K&K I've done straight up is the English bitter, but it's great on its own. Won't make this again. I've harvested the CCA yeast from this and pitched into a toucan stout which is all but finished and I've fermented it at 21 degrees as well, hopefully it hasn't ruined it as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 It’s not the yeast mate. I have used it 20+ times and it makes an awesome pale ale and stout. If you try it at 21c then you won’t get close. It throws all sorts of crap at that temp. I believe PB2 confirmed that a couple of years ago that the commercial pale ale beer was fermented at ~18c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Hi Karlos. What was the FG of the Pale Ale beer? Nowhere in any of your posts have you mentioned what it was. What were the dates on "the stuff in the cupboard" you had to use up? How did your initial reactivation of the CCA yeast go? Were there any noticeable problems? How many days did you allow for the reactivation process before using it on the main brew? Is the beer carbonated sufficiently? Is it flat? I've brewed the basic Pale Ale recipe with the CCA yeast & it turned out just fine. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said: It’s not the yeast mate. I have used it 20+ times and it makes an awesome pale ale and stout. If you try it at 21c then you won’t get close. It throws all sorts of crap at that temp. I believe PB2 confirmed that a couple of years ago that the commercial pale ale beer was fermented at ~18c. This has me worried my toucan stout will turn out shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I reckon the heavy flavours from the malt makeup of the stout would dominate over yeast driven flavours so it may be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 22 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I reckon the heavy flavours from the malt makeup of the stout would dominate over yeast driven flavours so it may be ok. +1. You won’t notice it nearly as much as with the pale ale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 No answers to any of my questions from Karlos tells me corners were cut & certain important readings & monitoring aspects were never done. His current situation is typically the end result. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Beerlust said: No answers to any of my questions from Karlos tells me corners were cut & certain important readings & monitoring aspects were never done. His current situation is typically the end result. Lusty. The only thing it tells you is that he hasn’t answered your questions. You assumed the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Hairy said: The only thing it tells you is that he hasn’t answered your questions. You assumed the rest. Coming from you, that hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Beerlust said: Coming from you, that hurts. The ones that love you always hurt you the most You may be correct but we don’t know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Hairy said: The ones that love you always hurt you the most You may be correct but we don’t know for sure. As you say Hairy, No I don't know for sure. The fact Karlos hasn't answered my questions & responded to something Greeny posted after my post means nothing. Maybe he doesn't like me or care for my opinions, fair call on his part if that is the case. But when Karlos rubbishes & blames the CCA reactivation procedure as THE cause for his current beer problem, yeah I'd like to know a little more about how his problem occurred before blaming the yeast source & procedure given I & others have used it to ferment beer without any problem. As much as I am a target for you most of the time & I do have a giggle at how you take the mickey out of me on a regular basis, occasionally your home brewing experience & knowledge (that is better than my own) is more beneficial to the conversation (like now). That's all. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 There was nothing wrong with your questions, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. I haven’t much to add given the lack of details. I have never used the Coopers commercial yeast so I tend to not comment on those posts. I should probably get around to it one day. Maybe. Perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hairy said: I have never used the Coopers commercial yeast so I tend to not comment on those posts. I should probably get around to it one day. Maybe. Perhaps. Given your love for EB's yeah perhaps you should (think dryish/good attenuating British style strains). "Yeast Daddy" Kelsey definitely needs to. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Yeah but the whole reactivation process is too much of a pain in the arse for me. It may seem strange but boiling a small wort on my work break then pitching some yeast into it later the same night seems easier than faffing around with dregs from multiple stubbies then making another two starters to build it up sufficiently before it's even pitched into a batch. Maybe one day when I have time on my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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