Oatmeal Stout

[Hell Man Hixy]

Hey Legends, how the hell are we!!??

Gonna put on a Stout and i'm wondering if anyone has tried putting Oats thru their brew?!

Talking to a mate who works at the local brewery and the brewer reckons Oats help thicken the brew, giving it that real chewy stouty texture?!

I'm using extract tins only no grains, with generally LDM and a combo of some or all of Chinook, Willamette & Northern Brewer Hops.

Last Stout i did was nice but lacking that thicker texture that i'm looking for!

Can find anything concrete on the interweb so i'm hoping you legends can give me a few ideas on exactly how i'm supposed to add these oats!

Cheers Legends!

[karlos_1984]

I just recently did a small experimental batch using oats. I mashed about 400g of oats (crushed in a bag with rolling pin) for an hour, sparged and boiled with 500g dme with an all galaxy hop schedule. 

It turned out awesome. The oats definitely gave the beer some extra body, but mainly made it cloudy, similar to a NEIPA in appearance.

[ChristinaS1]

1 hour ago, karlos_1984 said:

I just recently did a small experimental batch using oats. I mashed about 400g of oats (crushed in a bag with rolling pin) for an hour, sparged and boiled with 500g dme with an all galaxy hop schedule. 

It turned out awesome. The oats definitely gave the beer some extra body, but mainly made it cloudy, similar to a NEIPA in appearance.

Karlos, when you say mashed, do mean you had some base malt in there with it?

If there is no base malt, it is called steeping. It is possible to steep oats, but the starch will remain unconverted. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[Shamus O'Sean]

That's a long time to spend crushing oats too.

[karlos_1984]

12 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Karlos, when you say mashed, do mean you had some base malt in there with it?

If there is no base malt, it is called steeping. It is possible to steep oats, but the starch will remain unconverted. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Well the water was 70 degrees C, oats in a grain bag, switched heat off and wrapped in a black let and left it for an hour, was just the oats in water so I suppose it's a steep then. I threw in the malt afterwards then boiled, added hops etc...

[ChristinaS1]

5 hours ago, karlos_1984 said:

Well the water was 70 degrees C, oats in a grain bag, switched heat off and wrapped in a black let and left it for an hour, was just the oats in water so I suppose it's a steep then. I threw in the malt afterwards then boiled, added hops etc...

Hey Karlos, since you are using a mash temperature, and time frame, might as well take the leap and turn it into a partial mash by adding an equal weight (or more) of base malt next time.  The only other thing you have to watch out for when mashing is the ratio of water to grain. If you are going to sparge, use 3L/kg for 60 minutes; if you aren't going to sparge use 7L/kg for 90 minutes. 

If just steeping, no need to let it go an hour;  20-30 minutes is sufficient.

For steeping, instant oats are usually used. For mashing, old fashioned flaked oats are usually used.

BTW, Jamil Zainasheff says that if you toast the oats on a tray in a 150C oven, until they colour up and start to smell good, they give a more noticeable oatmeal flavour to the beer. 

[ChristinaS1]

Karlos, here is a great link that Porschemad911 gave me when I was starting out with partial mashing: https://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

It is quite helpful.

Cheers,

Christina.

[Hell Man Hixy]

On 3/15/2019 at 7:39 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

If you are going to sparge, use 3L/kg for 60 minutes; if you aren't going to sparge use 7L/kg for 90 minutes. 

If just steeping, no need to let it go an hour;  20-30 minutes is sufficient.

For steeping, instant oats are usually used. For mashing, old fashioned flaked oats are usually used.

BTW, Jamil Zainasheff says that if you toast the oats on a tray in a 150C oven, until they colour up and start to smell good, they give a more noticeable oatmeal flavour to the beer. 

Hey Christina, thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

So i've never mashed before,  been using extracts only, and will still be using a Coopers Stout Tin for this brew

Using your info above,  if i'm using 1kg rolled oats and I colour them in the oven like Jamil...i'd then mash for 90 mins in 7L??!

During the mash, this is the time i can also drop in hop pellets at varying intervals is that correct?!  I've got Nth Brewer, Chinook & Willamette in the freezer...

Thanks for your help  

[ChristinaS1]

15 minutes ago, Hell Man Hixy said:

Hey Christina, thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

So i've never mashed before,  been using extracts only, and will still be using a Coopers Stout Tin for this brew

Using your info above,  if i'm using 1kg rolled oats and I colour them in the oven like Jamil...i'd then mash for 90 mins in 7L??!

During the mash, this is the time i can also drop in hop pellets at varying intervals is that correct?!  I've got Nth Brewer, Chinook & Willamette in the freezer...

Thanks for your help  

If you want get conversion of the starches,  you need to use at least half base malt as well. But I would not use 1kg of flakes oats and 1kg of base malt, in part because that would be a lot of grain to handle for your first partial mash. Most recipes I see have oats at around 10% of the grist, which is approximately 350gm in a low gravity beer. I would mash them along with a minimum of 350gm of base malt, but you might as well up the amount of base malt to 750gm or so while you are at it, as it is the same amount of work. In general I find that a partial mash with <1.25kg of grain is the easiest to handle.

Note that a partial with <1.25kg is not enough that you can skip adding the usual 1kg of DME or 1.5kg LME. Some people, BlackSands for example, makes much larger partial mashes than I do, so that he doesn't have to use extra extract (just the pre-hopped Coopers kit). 

You can use ordinary pale ale malt as your base malt, but if you want to get fancy, you could do 350gm flaked oats, 350gm Vienna, and 350gm pale ale malt. Vienna is also a base malt with a good whack of diastatic enzymes. When used for about 10% of the grist (~350gm, depending on the gravity), it can make a kit nice and malty tasting, almost as if the batch were all grain. Another option would be to use 350gm of flaked oats with about 750gm of Maris Otter. Maris Otter has fewer diastatic enzymes than Pale Ale malt or Vienna, so good to use a larger ratio.

No, you don't add hop pellets to the mash. After the 90 minutes of mash time is done, you separate the liquid wort from the grain by lifting out your grain bag and squeezing out the wort. Then you boil the wort, for a minimum of 30 minutes. It is during the boil that you add the hop pellets. Usually stouts are not late hopped, but if you really wanted to use some hops, I would go with the Willamette. You could add 25gm when 10 minutes are left in the boil (so 20 minutes after it starts a rolling boil). Once the boiling starts, keep the lid off of the kettle. Once you turn the flame off, add your LME, and stir to dissolve it, then add the Coopers kit, and dissolve it too. Then cover the kettle with the lid and set it in a sink full of ice water until the temp gets close to pitching temp. Strain the wort through a sieve on its way into the fermenter, to remove the hops, and top up your fermenter with whatever temperature water is needed to hit your pitching temp. 

If you are using a pre-hopped Coopers kit as a base, you generally don't want to boil hops for more than 20 minutes, as the Coopers kit is providing your base bittering. 

Cheers, and good luck with the partial mash.

Cheers,

Christina.

PS Not sure what you should do with those Northern Brewer hops. They are usually used for bittering. I don't like them for late additions. Save the Chinook hops for an IPA, mixed with some other American hops. 

[Hell Man Hixy]

On 3/17/2019 at 7:35 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

If you want get conversion of the starches,  you need to use at least half base malt as well. But I would not use 1kg of flakes oats and 1kg of base malt, in part because that would be a lot of grain to handle for your first partial mash. Most recipes I see have oats at around 10% of the grist, which is approximately 350gm in a low gravity beer. I would mash them along with a minimum of 350gm of base malt, but you might as well up the amount of base malt to 750gm or so while you are at it, as it is the same amount of work. In general I find that a partial mash with <1.25kg of grain is the easiest to handle.

Note that a partial with <1.25kg is not enough that you can skip adding the usual 1kg of DME or 1.5kg LME. Some people, BlackSands for example, makes much larger partial mashes than I do, so that he doesn't have to use extra extract (just the pre-hopped Coopers kit). 

You can use ordinary pale ale malt as your base malt, but if you want to get fancy, you could do 350gm flaked oats, 350gm Vienna, and 350gm pale ale malt. Vienna is also a base malt with a good whack of diastatic enzymes. When used for about 10% of the grist (~350gm, depending on the gravity), it can make a kit nice and malty tasting, almost as if the batch were all grain. Another option would be to use 350gm of flaked oats with about 750gm of Maris Otter. Maris Otter has fewer diastatic enzymes than Pale Ale malt or Vienna, so good to use a larger ratio.

No, you don't add hop pellets to the mash. After the 90 minutes of mash time is done, you separate the liquid wort from the grain by lifting out your grain bag and squeezing out the wort. Then you boil the wort, for a minimum of 30 minutes. It is during the boil that you add the hop pellets. Usually stouts are not late hopped, but if you really wanted to use some hops, I would go with the Willamette. You could add 25gm when 10 minutes are left in the boil (so 20 minutes after it starts a rolling boil). Once the boiling starts, keep the lid off of the kettle. Once you turn the flame off, add your LME, and stir to dissolve it, then add the Coopers kit, and dissolve it too. Then cover the kettle with the lid and set it in a sink full of ice water until the temp gets close to pitching temp. Strain the wort through a sieve on its way into the fermenter, to remove the hops, and top up your fermenter with whatever temperature water is needed to hit your pitching temp. 

If you are using a pre-hopped Coopers kit as a base, you generally don't want to boil hops for more than 20 minutes, as the Coopers kit is providing your base bittering. 

Cheers, and good luck with the partial mash.

Cheers,

Christina.

PS Not sure what you should do with those Northern Brewer hops. They are usually used for bittering. I don't like them for late additions. Save the Chinook hops for an IPA, mixed with some other American hops. 

Christina, just.. bloody...WOW!!!

Thanks you so much for taking the time to write and explain that all for me, above and beyond anything i expected!!

You're totally right, if i'm going to the trouble of making a partial mash...  

I put my 18th brew on tonight and its awesome as always and there is nothing wrong with the beers i've been producing, i like em, the crew like em, but I want more!  So i guess if i'm to take my brewing to the 'next level'  i start using grain!

Thanks again, absolutely brilliant!

 

[ChristinaS1]

Sounds good.

Just remember to try to keep your mash temp around 68C for the full 90 minutes. It has a tendency to cool off. If it drops below 64C you may have to give it a blast of heat to bring the temperature back up to 68C, but be careful not to overshoot too much. 

Cheers,

Christina.