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Hot water urn


John304

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17 hours ago, John304 said:

I see on eBay they have 58ltr urns for $145, I know you only get what you pay for, just wondering if anyone has bought one and are they any good,

cheers

john

The add says "exposed element". That could get messy boiling up wort. How to clean? Is this an issue? I know the Crown Urn has element concealed.

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4 minutes ago, Worthog said:

The add says "exposed element". That could get messy boiling up wort. How to clean? Is this an issue? I know the Crown Urn has element concealed.

Also some urns are "safety protected" not to boil....

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2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Boil a mixture of citric acid and water to clean it. 

I thought the safety thing was about cutting out the element if it boils dry, rather than not boiling at all. 

I have attached an excerpt from the Crown Urn advertised at "National Home Brew" which says;

"This edition of the Crown Urn has been factory modified for thermal protection switching at a higher temperature. It isn't necessary to disable the Thermal Protection unit to attain a constant rolling boil."

I don't know if it is relevant to the topic subject urn.

Cheers

Edited by Worthog
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1 hour ago, Worthog said:

I have attached an excerpt from the Crown Urn advertised at "National Home Brew" which says;

"This edition of the Crown Urn has been factory modified for thermal protection switching at a higher temperature. It isn't necessary to disable the Thermal Protection unit to attain a constant rolling boil."

I don't know if it is relevant to the topic subject urn.

Cheers

I thought urns were designed to boil water for making tea or coffee, keeping a constant boil, or rolling boil, that's what my 20ltr urn does, and that's what it did in it's previous life at footy park. Only trouble is it's too small

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Yeah my urn has that thermal protection in it but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining a boil unless the element cover gets a heap of crud caked onto it. When that happens it cuts in and out because the urn thinks it's boiled dry. 

That's why I started using the stainless wire brush to give it a scrub before the boil. It never cuts out now. 

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15 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

 

For reference, the crown urns hold about 43 litres to the brim and have a 2400 watt element and work well. Not that I ever fill it that high 😜

so if the 48ltr come 42ltr urn has a 2500 watt element in comparison to Kelsey's crown urn, maybe it could be ok, null 

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1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah my urn has that thermal protection in it but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining a boil unless the element cover gets a heap of crud caked onto it. When that happens it cuts in and out because the urn thinks it's boiled dry. 

That's why I started using the stainless wire brush to give it a scrub before the boil. It never cuts out now. 

Did u mention using a false bottom in yours before? If so what do u use? I figured a collander upside down would do the job to keep the bag off the bottom...?

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry @karlos_1984 been a bit busy lately, I ended up with the 48 Ltr urn, which in fact is about 38ltr, not sure how that works out. Still good for 23ltr batches, I have put 3 batches thru it so far, seems to be ok so far, whether paying the extra 100 bucks for a crown urn I’m not sure, so far so good, it doesn’t have a constant boil, cuts in and out but still does the job,

cheers,

john

Edited by John304
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2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

The boil cutting in and out isn't good. You should get that sorted, maybe add another over the side element or something to make sure it keeps going through the whole boil. 

Yeh might get an immersion element for the boil, the mash is ok

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2 hours ago, John304 said:

 I ended up with the 48 Ltr urn, which in fact is about 38ltr, not sure how that works out. 

Would say that is the external measurements and not the fluid capacity. Also cutting in and out is not good. Two causes - one is flour from the mash on the element which can be solved with a scrub after mashing or during boil. Other is insufficient equipment which will need the additional element or partial cover of the vessel (lid half off).

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It’s a concealed element, the external measurements makes sense, I tend to think the cutting out when reaching boil is a design thing, when it drops below boil it turns back on again and so on. Now that I have it, will have to persevere, Emerson heaters aren’t expensive,

cheers

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1 hour ago, Popo said:

Can you use an external temp controller to bypass the urn's cut out?

That is unlikely to work, it's like using a temp controller set to zero with a fridge that can only go down to 3 or 4. It'll only go as low as the fridge can go. 

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My thinking was that if it does make it to the boil, and the probe was set to 100 wouldn't it just keep on going at a boil? The probe wouldn't even need to be in the water.

I'm probably missing something though. I can be a bit simple at times haha.

 

 

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All it would do is, well, nothing actually. If it was in the wort it would turn it off when it hit 100 and wait for it to cool down however far the difference is before turning it back on again. 

If the probe wasn't in the wort or it was in but set to 110 or something then the urn would just run as if there was no controller there. 

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Hi Popo

Your logic sounds a bit like my early thinking with temperature controllers.  I got it wrong and it took ages to get my head around the controller.

It's the same, but opposite of what @Otto Von Blotto says about using a fridge.  When you are heating it is about what the heating machine (urn) is set to, not what the controller is set to.  Either way, either the controller or the urn itself is going to turn the urn element off and on.  I do not think you can get a constant rolling boil.

  1. If the controller is set at 102°C with a 1°C difference, it will turn off the urn once the boil temperature gets to 102°C and back on when the temperature drops down to 101°C.
  2. The above will only apply though if the urn is set to turn off at a temperature above what the controller is set to.  For example, if the urn is set to turn off at 105°C, the above setting will control the boil, but at least you will know that the wort is in the temperature range of at least 101-102°C
  3. If the urn is set to turn off at 101°C (or anything under what the controller is set to), the urn will control the boil as if the controller did not exist

Either way the urn will be turned off and on.

The fact the urn is getting to boiling is good.  Shutting off due to too high a temperature is not great.  (Why is the urn getting too hot?)  But if the urn turns back on before the temperature drops below 100°C it is not a disaster.  Might need to figure out how long the urn boils and how long it turns off and adjust to total time in the boil so the time actually boiling is enough.

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