Worthog Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 17 hours ago, John304 said: I see on eBay they have 58ltr urns for $145, I know you only get what you pay for, just wondering if anyone has bought one and are they any good, cheers john The add says "exposed element". That could get messy boiling up wort. How to clean? Is this an issue? I know the Crown Urn has element concealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Worthog said: The add says "exposed element". That could get messy boiling up wort. How to clean? Is this an issue? I know the Crown Urn has element concealed. Also some urns are "safety protected" not to boil.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Boil a mixture of citric acid and water to clean it. I thought the safety thing was about cutting out the element if it boils dry, rather than not boiling at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Boil a mixture of citric acid and water to clean it. I thought the safety thing was about cutting out the element if it boils dry, rather than not boiling at all. I have attached an excerpt from the Crown Urn advertised at "National Home Brew" which says; "This edition of the Crown Urn has been factory modified for thermal protection switching at a higher temperature. It isn't necessary to disable the Thermal Protection unit to attain a constant rolling boil." I don't know if it is relevant to the topic subject urn. Cheers Edited March 11, 2019 by Worthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Johns op was the concealed element unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Yeah there's 3 sizes on eBay all from the same manufacturer and seller, they all say concealed element. Pics also show a concealed element. I like the argument "tell her a grainfather costs $1000" could be a good point to make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Worthog said: I have attached an excerpt from the Crown Urn advertised at "National Home Brew" which says; "This edition of the Crown Urn has been factory modified for thermal protection switching at a higher temperature. It isn't necessary to disable the Thermal Protection unit to attain a constant rolling boil." I don't know if it is relevant to the topic subject urn. Cheers I thought urns were designed to boil water for making tea or coffee, keeping a constant boil, or rolling boil, that's what my 20ltr urn does, and that's what it did in it's previous life at footy park. Only trouble is it's too small 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Yeah my urn has that thermal protection in it but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining a boil unless the element cover gets a heap of crud caked onto it. When that happens it cuts in and out because the urn thinks it's boiled dry. That's why I started using the stainless wire brush to give it a scrub before the boil. It never cuts out now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: For reference, the crown urns hold about 43 litres to the brim and have a 2400 watt element and work well. Not that I ever fill it that high so if the 48ltr come 42ltr urn has a 2500 watt element in comparison to Kelsey's crown urn, maybe it could be ok, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Yeah my urn has that thermal protection in it but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining a boil unless the element cover gets a heap of crud caked onto it. When that happens it cuts in and out because the urn thinks it's boiled dry. That's why I started using the stainless wire brush to give it a scrub before the boil. It never cuts out now. Did u mention using a false bottom in yours before? If so what do u use? I figured a collander upside down would do the job to keep the bag off the bottom...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I use one of these, but anything that fits in there and holds the bag up would work. I do remove it from the urn before I boil the wort, using a piece of thin stainless rod bent into a hook at one end. https://craftbrewer.com.au/false-bottom-for-crown-urn-ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 i used a different and cheaper option to keep bag off the element , also keeps bag clear of the tap for recirc during step mashing . downside is i effectively reduced the size of the mash tun , still managed to hit gravity as high as 1.080 though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Thanks for that, I suppose it's like using a cake tray in my camp oven to stop the food sticking to the bottom. Good idea cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Did u bite the bullet and get this urn @John304? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Any update on this urn and whether it works ok or not? I need to get my brewing out of the kitchen to keep the wife happy... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) Sorry @karlos_1984 been a bit busy lately, I ended up with the 48 Ltr urn, which in fact is about 38ltr, not sure how that works out. Still good for 23ltr batches, I have put 3 batches thru it so far, seems to be ok so far, whether paying the extra 100 bucks for a crown urn I’m not sure, so far so good, it doesn’t have a constant boil, cuts in and out but still does the job, cheers, john Edited May 4, 2019 by John304 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 The boil cutting in and out isn't good. You should get that sorted, maybe add another over the side element or something to make sure it keeps going through the whole boil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: The boil cutting in and out isn't good. You should get that sorted, maybe add another over the side element or something to make sure it keeps going through the whole boil. Yeh might get an immersion element for the boil, the mash is ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozer71 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, John304 said: I ended up with the 48 Ltr urn, which in fact is about 38ltr, not sure how that works out. Would say that is the external measurements and not the fluid capacity. Also cutting in and out is not good. Two causes - one is flour from the mash on the element which can be solved with a scrub after mashing or during boil. Other is insufficient equipment which will need the additional element or partial cover of the vessel (lid half off). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John304 Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 It’s a concealed element, the external measurements makes sense, I tend to think the cutting out when reaching boil is a design thing, when it drops below boil it turns back on again and so on. Now that I have it, will have to persevere, Emerson heaters aren’t expensive, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo the Reprobate Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Can you use an external temp controller to bypass the urn's cut out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Popo said: Can you use an external temp controller to bypass the urn's cut out? That is unlikely to work, it's like using a temp controller set to zero with a fridge that can only go down to 3 or 4. It'll only go as low as the fridge can go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo the Reprobate Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) My thinking was that if it does make it to the boil, and the probe was set to 100 wouldn't it just keep on going at a boil? The probe wouldn't even need to be in the water. I'm probably missing something though. I can be a bit simple at times haha. Edited May 5, 2019 by Popo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 All it would do is, well, nothing actually. If it was in the wort it would turn it off when it hit 100 and wait for it to cool down however far the difference is before turning it back on again. If the probe wasn't in the wort or it was in but set to 110 or something then the urn would just run as if there was no controller there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Hi Popo Your logic sounds a bit like my early thinking with temperature controllers. I got it wrong and it took ages to get my head around the controller. It's the same, but opposite of what @Otto Von Blotto says about using a fridge. When you are heating it is about what the heating machine (urn) is set to, not what the controller is set to. Either way, either the controller or the urn itself is going to turn the urn element off and on. I do not think you can get a constant rolling boil. If the controller is set at 102°C with a 1°C difference, it will turn off the urn once the boil temperature gets to 102°C and back on when the temperature drops down to 101°C. The above will only apply though if the urn is set to turn off at a temperature above what the controller is set to. For example, if the urn is set to turn off at 105°C, the above setting will control the boil, but at least you will know that the wort is in the temperature range of at least 101-102°C If the urn is set to turn off at 101°C (or anything under what the controller is set to), the urn will control the boil as if the controller did not exist Either way the urn will be turned off and on. The fact the urn is getting to boiling is good. Shutting off due to too high a temperature is not great. (Why is the urn getting too hot?) But if the urn turns back on before the temperature drops below 100°C it is not a disaster. Might need to figure out how long the urn boils and how long it turns off and adjust to total time in the boil so the time actually boiling is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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