Zubakov Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Hi Ive got a question for you, hopefully someone can point out where I am going wrong. Ive just started to drink a beer that has been bottle conditioned for 4 weeks (the first batch made with a fridge I picked up cheap, before you ask, I cleaned the hell out of it with non scented detergents) and have noticed some off flavours. Half the batch was bottle conditioned in glass stubbies, the remainder in a mix of Morgans/Coopers PET bottles (on average probably used anywhere between 2-6 times). To clean the bottles (always rinse after use) I put a pink stain (obtained from HBS) in the bottles (cold water) shake like a mad man then rinse with water and let air dry. Both glass and pet recieved the same cleaning treatment, and the same sanitizer (morgans). After the batch is bottled I store them in crates similiar to this https://www.bunnings.com.au/montgomery-100l-black-heavy-duty-storage-container_p0018890 in a moderate temperature room (bar the odd super hot day) Based on my ramblings above, what would cause the sausage taste in the PET bottles? Is it that they are more susceptible to transferring outside heat to the liquid inside? Note: The glass stubbies have no trace of sausage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Sounds like yeast autolysis (basically, yeast self destructing). Not sure why it would only be in the PET bottles though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I'd guess it's something to do with the pink stain remover, leaving something in the plastic. I would chuck that stuff out, go to sodium perc and no rinse sanitiser. The advice I was given at the LHBS was that he only stocks pink stain remover for those who still think it's a good thing to use, and that he would not recommend it to anyone to use in home brewing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 If you're getting a sausage taste make sure you put your onions on top and not underneath. Sorry, I know this doesn't help you but I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The pink stain remover is only good for removing pink stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Cleaners aren't very likely to cause a meaty/sausage like flavour. However I'd agree with changing to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyBrew2 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Sausage tasting beer actually sounds nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Smoked malt beer tastes like frankfurters to me. I am not really a fan but that's how it's supposed to taste. Some phenolic based off flavors can be smokey or smoke like, so if your sausage off flavour is a smoky sausage flavour, like a frankfurter, then I woudl blame that pink stain remover, leaving chloromine like residues in the plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Sounds like the plastic bottles did not like something about the cleaning process. Nothing else in your description would cause it to occur in the plastic and not the glass. For the same reason, it should not have been the brew itself. Have a look at the recent BEST BOTTLE CLEANING METHODS? discussion thread. There are some better sounding options in there for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchBastard Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Bartender...pint of yer finest sausage ale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermoor Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I was reading am old brewing book the other day published in 1963, there was a beer that actually used a chicken in the brew. It was called spatchcock ale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The hipstertist craft brewers with foot long beards and sleeve tatts, will be onto this like a seagull on a lightly herbed pomme fritte. Best sell the recipe while they're still over excited.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 these comments are the wurst…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 49 minutes ago, worry wort said: these comments are the wurst…. That joke was a banger!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 14 hours ago, headmaster said: ....Some phenolic based off flavors can be smokey or smoke like, so if your sausage off flavour is a smoky sausage flavour, like a frankfurter, then I woudl blame that pink stain remover, leaving chloromine like residues in the plastic. I have actually tasted this phenomena in a neighbour's Morgan Kit. His regime, though, is any kind of cleaner for washing, rudimentary sanitation, no temperature control, and town water out of the garden hose. I'm not suggesting any parallels here Zubakov.....Just saying this is where I have experienced Headmasters phenolic, smoky taste before, which may not be sausage, but my guess for reason is Chlorine (or chloramines) and yeast combination. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Smoky wasn't mentioned in the initial post and is not the same as meaty/sausage like. There could be a smoky tinge to it but it is all just speculation until old mate confirms it. It could be that the cleaner reacted with the lining inside the PET bottles, but otherwise if it was rinsed properly there shouldn't be any left, as with the glass ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyBrew2 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Worthog said: I have actually tasted this phenomena in a neighbour's Morgan Kit. His regime, though, is any kind of cleaner for washing, rudimentary sanitation, no temperature control, and town water out of the garden hose. Can you ask ol’ mate to sign up to our homebrew economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'm a relative newby to this site. Nearly 2 years. Would it be fair to say that the term "old mate" or "Ol' mate" is a euphemism for a radically brewing deranged or unhinged scholar of the art? No disrespect here to "Me Old Mate", Og, by inference, but WTF? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 No. It's just a term to describe a bloke. Lol. e.g. old mate down the road just bought a new ute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyBrew2 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I never heard it until I arrived at these here shores. Back home we say “ your man “ or “me man” here it’s old mate. “Old mate is out punching a durry on his smoko” sometimes I wonder if English is indeed the main vernacular here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 10:07 PM, Zubakov said: ...Based on my ramblings above, what would cause the sausage taste in the PET bottles? Is it that they are more susceptible to transferring outside heat to the liquid inside? Note: The glass stubbies have no trace of sausage Maybe you should snag a few more glass bottles? Sorry, it was just begging me to say it. Maybe it would make a good marinade for stuff over in the BBQ thread? Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubakov Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 For clarification, I dont detect a smokey flavour just a sausage flavour. Cheeky edit: Thanks for the information in this thread, always down to learn some new terms I asked my local home brew store regarding it and the best I can get out of them is I am doing something wrong, as to what, they dont know. They did suggest, as one of you did, that the pink stain might be leeching flavours out of the plastic into the beer producing the taste (but said i should swap to glass and continue to use pink stain ) The only other thing I can think of is an extension of what otto von blotto said, after I've washed the bottles and allowed them to dry some chrloine etc could remain. Im wondering if also the water I am using for cleaning is not helping the situation (two points of note here, 1 is im using woolies 10L for 4 buck spring water to brew and 2, im near the towns water source, you can smell and taste the chlorine in the water straight from the tap). I might try setting aside some water the night before cleaning (let the chlorine evap naturally), dose that with pink stain and use it to clean bottles. See if it makes a difference. (I have another cleaner, might do the same with it, some experimentation) Knowing my luck, probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Chlorine evaporates with the water, if the bottles and whatever else are dry then there will be no chlorine left behind. It's unlikely this is your issue unless they haven't been fully dried. You could try adding sodium or potassium metabisulphite to the tap water. These remove chlorine and chloramines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 I used to use "Pink Stain" (Chlorinated Tri-sodium Phosphate) when I first got into home brewing as it was recommended by my LHBS. I found it to be more of a steriliser than a cleaner per say, & it needs to be rinsed off thoroughly due to some bleach type elements in it's makeup. I've read articles that suggest it has an "etching effect" which tells me it would not be ideal to use with PET bottles & can leave behind a thin film or residue if not rinsed off thoroughly. Through very good advice I received on this very forum I eventually switched to a combination sodium percarbonate as a soaker to help remove stains/physical matter, & StarSan as an "on the day" (no rinse required) sanitiser. Both are a lot gentler on my plastic based brewing gear. Some quotes I found about Chlorinated Tri-Sodium Phosphate... Over on the HomeBrewTalk forum... Quote TSP is tri-sodium phosphate. This was a major component in general purpose cleaners until the 1970's when it was identified as causing major algae problems in lakes and waterways. It will clean just about anything, including plastics. ...and "John Palmer - How To Brew"... Quote Trisodium phosphate (TSP) and chlorinated TSP (CTSP) are very effective cleaners for post-fermentation brewing deposits and the chlorinated form is also a sanitizer. TSP and CTSP are becoming harder to find, but are still available at hardware stores in the paint section. (Painters use it for washing walls because it can be rinsed away completely.) The recommended usage is one tablespoon per gallon of hot water. Solutions of TSP and CTSP should not be left to soak for more than an hour because a white mineral film can sometimes deposit on glass and metal which requires an acid (vinegar) solution to remove. This is not usually a problem however. Regardless of the cleaner you use, bottles still require a bottle brush in them & some elbow grease to remove solids. Even products like sodium percarbonate only aid in breaking down those solids, they don't always remove them. The sausage off-flavour you describe is a very unusual one, but the fact you've had no problems with the glass bottles, & had problems with the PET's has me leaning towards some sort of possible leaching into the plastic from something physical remaining in them from not being scrubbed clean with a bottle brush, or the etching effect from the pink stain that may have created small scratches or pits in the plastic that are housing molds or bacteria somehow. Whereas the glass bottles are seemingly not affected in the same way by the cleaner & your processes. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.