Beer in a bag BIAB

[Marty_G]

I have watched a couple of clips today on doing BIAB and to be honest it doesn't look beyond my capabilities, I have the ability to follow a recipe  .... but I do have a few questions .... what is the cost like compared to say an extract recipe which a uses a kit wort, some hops, a small 200 gram grain mash  and some specialised yeast which make  23 litres ...  as opposed to doing the full mash boil and  then hop boil and cooling  it before pitching .... is it worth the extra effort and time...  also what is the best volume to do my guess is around 8 litres ... 

[Worthog]

• $20 for grain - unless you buy bulk
• $10 for hops - bittering and late
• $5 for yeast - unless you harvest and spread cost over several batches. 

So $35, unless you can be resourceful, which you should endeavour to be.

Guess at 23L.

Cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

I make 25 litre batches fo anywhere between $15 and $30 for the entire ingredients depending on the beer.

[Marty_G]

6 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I make 25 litre batches fo anywhere between $15 and $30 for the entire ingredients depending on the beer.

Well that price is very competitive with the extract ...  and what about equipment .... nothing fancy needed just a pot for  the boil, a burner/heat source with a few bits and pieces like a thermometer and scales  etc .... I used to do DNA extractions at uni  so I imagine I can do a mash ...  when you do a 25 litre i imagine that it is not a 25 litre boil .... you make a wort and add water right ? 

[The Captain!!]

I use a 40l crown urn as does Otto and a few others.

After mashing and lifting the bag out that is the full boil volume, being around the 30 odd litre mark. 

If you watched some of king rudds fast homebrew you’ll see how easy it can be. 

I have an urn, thermometer, a bag, a pulley, valve on the urn and no chill cubes, Think that’s it.

[Marty_G]

24 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

If you watched some of king rudds fast homebrew you’ll see how easy it can be. 

Thanks will watch these ... 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, I usually boil about 35 litres to end up with 25 in the fermenter. Without going into detail, you do lose volume to the boil and a couple of other things. 

The equipment I have now isn't what I started with, as I have added a few things over the years. I started with the crown urn, grain bag, hop sock (which I turned into a spider), grain mill, mash paddle, transfer hose and some cubes. All up it was about $700 I think, but given the ingredients are about half the price per batch, it paid for itself within a couple of years I'd guess. 

For a while I was using one of dad's old lab thermometers, but eventually got my own digital one. I still use them for calibration from time to time though. After the first or second batch I replaced the urn tap with a 3 piece ball valve, much better. 3 or 4 years ago I got a false bottom for the urn so I could heat the mash without lifting the bag. I got a stainless wire brush for cleaning the element before the boil, just to make sure it doesn't cut out near the end. Otherwise I don't really think I've had to buy anything else for it.

I do have a pulley system which I posted a picture of in the brew day thread recently, but that was one that dad had laying around so obviously no cost for it.

I always buy base malt in bulk, hops as well, and I reuse yeast for long periods of time, generally I keep a strain going for at least 2 years unless it goes mutant. These help to keep the ingredient costs down a bit. 

But, being cheaper wasn't my motivation, I just wanted to get more involved in the brewing process and have more control over my recipes. The fact that ingredients are cheaper than kit or extract brewing is just a bonus.

[Titan]

I have 2 inkbirds one i use on the freezer the other i use for mash temperature monitoring when not using the grainfather.

 

[PaddyBrew2]

Why is sparging so important for the all grainers using systems like the grainfather and the robobrew but then the crown urners couldn’t give two shiney shites about sparging ?

[Titan]

Sparge just rinses the goodness out of the grains. Slower the sparge better the result. Crown urn usually means a bag is used for your mashing. Bags are not really designed for sparging though it can be done. Any sparge will get more fermentables than no sparge at all.

[PaddyBrew2]

So BIABers will get less efficiency than Robobrewers? 

[Titan]

I did a brewday last Saturday, double batch. Virtually same grain bill. One done in grainfather, the other done in a mash tun. Sparge on gf took around 45 mins to complete, mash tun 10 mins. Og gf 1.080 tun 1.063. 

[Worthog]

7 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I started with the ctown urn....I got a stainless wire brush for cleaning the element before the boil, just to make sure it doesn't cut out near the end.....

Side question, Kelsey. Isn't the element enclosed under the floor of the urn?

[Hairy]

7 hours ago, PaddyBrew2 said:

Why is sparging so important for the all grainers using systems like the grainfather and the robobrew but then the crown urners couldn’t give two shiney shites about sparging ?

Urns tend to be 40 litres which allows you to add all the water at the start.

Grainfathers are 30 litres. I aim for a pre boil volume of 28-29 litres so you need to sparge to achieve that volume.

Titan answered why you sparge, this explains how you can do a no  sparge in an urn.

[Otto Von Blotto]

31 minutes ago, Worthog said:

Side question, Kelsey. Isn't the element enclosed under the floor of the urn?

Yes but the plate that covers it gets shit caked onto it from the mash. 99% of the time it's not a problem but the urns have a boil dry safety thing that cuts out the element if it detects it to be dry. I've found an excessive amount of crap on it causes this so I decided scrubbing it would help prevent that and so far it has. It does depend on the beer though. Lower strength beers with less malt probably wouldn't be an issue at all. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

7 hours ago, PaddyBrew2 said:

So BIABers will get less efficiency than Robobrewers? 

Theoretically but high efficiency doesn't automatically mean better beer. I usually run at around 75% brewhouse efficiency in my BIAB urn set up. It's a decent figure and it's consistent which makes recipe design easy.

[Marty_G]

So in ball park sort of figures: what  mass of dry grain would be need to make a 25 litre brew ... and what is the absorption rate ...  

[Smash]

31 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

So in ball park sort of figures: what  mass of dry grain would be need to make a 25 litre brew ... and what is the absorption rate ...  

Depends on how strong you want it & style etc. I came across a BIAB recipe designer by 'IanH' on another forum, have a play around for different styles. I only partial mash, so other people will be better at answering absorption rate / boil off rate / trub loss etc. 

BIAB_Beer_Designer_v1.3.xls

[Worthog]

Just now, MartyG1525230263 said:

So in ball park sort of figures: what  mass of dry grain would be need to make a 25 litre brew ... and what is the absorption rate ...  

Suggest you go back to a common 23L batch. Then you need to decide what your final ABV is to be. If you can get a good efficiency from your mash you can apply this rule-of-thumb;

1kg grain for 1% ABV.  So, 5kg of grain should get you around 5% ABV.

This is only a starting point so if you, like me, don't use software (Beersmith3) then you will need to adjust your process and grain bill as you get an understanding of your own results. You need to document and measure everything you do.

Cheers

 

[Marty_G]

5 minutes ago, Worthog said:

1kg grain for 1% ABV.  So, 5kg of grain should get you around 5% ABV.

This is only a starting point so if you, like me, don't use software (Beersmith3) then you will need to adjust your process and grain bill as you get an understanding of your own results. You need to document and measure everything you do.

Thanks heaps, documenting is not a problem i have spreadsheets for all sorts of things for the most mundane of things, from howmany eggs lay and the cost per egg to the number of bird species I see each year on my acreage and when, food diaries, time sectionals for race horses,  the wife takes the piss out of me at parties over it  ... as I say once a scientist always a scientist ..   now one last question .... If i has a 40 litre urn I can see no reason why I cant do my boil in it then once cooled put in the fridge pitch the yeast and use as the FV  ...  or is there something i am overlooking ... 

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Smash said:

Depends on how strong you want it & style etc. I came across a BIAB recipe designer by 'IanH' on another forum, have a play around for different styles. I only partial mash, so other people will be better at answering absorption rate / boil off rate / trub loss etc. 

BIAB_Beer_Designer_v1.3.xls

Thanks for the spreadsheet ... much appreciated ... 

[Worthog]

19 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

.... If i has a 40 litre urn I can see no reason why I cant do my boil in it then once cooled put in the fridge pitch the yeast and use as the FV  ...  or is there something i am overlooking ... 

It would not be usual to do this. There is "hot and cold break" , hop junk etc, which will adversely affect taste and clarity if not filtered, or left out of final wort.

I will leave the experts to add to this, but AG brewing requires a more structured process than kits n giggles. You should swat up by reading some material on the subject like "Palmer". 

Cheers

[King Ruddager]

I use 5.6kg of grain to get 27L @ 1.042

I also tried sparging for the hell of it last weekend and that number went up to about 1.045

[Otto Von Blotto]

I only make 21 and 25 litre batches because that's what suits the size cubes I have. 23 is too big for a 20 litre cube and too small for a 25 litre cube. 

[King Ruddager]

Same, but my 25L cube holds 27L