worry wort Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 this should teach me a lesson, but probably wont. I tried my first BIAB, won't mention maker as it was probably my fault (although followed the instructions). Anyway, this is meant to be a pale ale in the form of mountain goat style of beer. Its been down now for 10 days, but I sampled it 2 days ago after taking a sg reading{1.010) and it was as bitter as hell, sampled again this morn {1.008) and it still has a very bitter almost unenjoyable taste. No 'floaties' or other undesireables on the wort, looks good, but the taste is of concern. I usually do this sampling at sg readings, and gt an idea of how things are going. Anyway, would dry hopping a small qty of cascade or even galaxy be of help? can they be used as rescue hops in these situations? thanks WorryWort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Gday Worry Wort, Dry hopping beers can create even more perceived bitterness unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Hey Worry Wort, Can you please post your recipe and procedure if its not too much hassle? Just so we can maybe see where something went wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 x pouch 1.8ltr xxxxxxx goat pale ale 350gm maltodextrin 650gm dextrose kit yeast -------------------------------------------- dissolve sugars in 3ltr hot tap water add contents of pouch to liquid and dissolve top to 20ltr, check temp fill to 23 ltr (I always add 1 extra lt to allow sg testers) add yeast keep between 20-25 deg. (maintained at 23) ========================================== When I do a new brand and/or type of brew, I don't stray from the instructions so at least I know what the starting brew should taste like. I made one change which I do with most brews, instead of 1kg dextrose I use a 650/350 blend with md. cheers ww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Tasting at FG test usually finds the beer bitter. This will change to becoming more balanced after 2nd ferment (bottle conditioning). Not quite sure this is the total answer given your description "bitter as hell" though. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 You may find the beers aren't as bitter if you pair the kits with malt extract instead of dextrose and maltodextrin, neither of which do anything to actually counter bitterness like malt does. Dextrose ferments out to nothing but alcohol, maltodextrin gives body but no real flavour and no sweetness. It's just a straight swap, instead of 1kg dextrose (or your blend), simply add 1kg light dry malt, or you can make a blend with the malt and dextrose. +1 to FG samples usually tasting more bitter than the finished product too. By the way, BIAB is mashing grains in a bag then boiling the wort afterwards, not using a kit that comes in a pouch instead of a tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 oh, thanks for the clarification OVB, I thought it stood for brew in a bag lol. yep, have noticed the samplers in the past to be more bitter than the drinking brew at 3 or so weeks, but this is very, very bitter. But, being an aussie male, ill drink what I make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hi WorryWort. 9 hours ago, worry wort said: this should teach me a lesson, but probably wont. I tried my first BIAB, won't mention maker as it was probably my fault (although followed the instructions). 8 hours ago, worry wort said: ...When I do a new brand and/or type of brew, I don't stray from the instructions so at least I know what the starting brew should taste like. I made one change which I do with most brews, instead of 1kg dextrose I use a 650/350 blend with md. Apparently you do stray. There's no need to "name & shame" but a link to the original "actual recipe" would be helpful here to find out why the brew isn't tasting as it should. Until I see the original recipe as listed by whomever you purchased it from, I only have suspicions & can't really offer anything helpful. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, Beerlust said: Hi WorryWort. Apparently you do stray. There's no need to "name & shame" but a link to the original "actual recipe" would be helpful here to find out why the brew isn't tasting as it should. Until I see the original recipe as listed by whomever you purchased it from, I only have suspicions & can't really offer anything helpful. Cheers, Lusty. hope this is clear enough to read, these were the instructions with the yeast satchel on the bag as well. Easy enough, but yes, I did change a little but I do that often where its either 1kg of white sugar or 1kg dextrose only. appreciate your efforts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hi WorryWort. Thank you for providing the pic you have about the brew. There is enough contained in it that I was able to track down all the specifics of what brew pouch it is & all the recommended brew info around it. For those interested in this conversation... The pouch, the pouch instructions. The pouch additional info: IBU: 28-36, Expected final SG: 1.005, Optimal Fermenting Temp: 20 - 25ºC, Yeast: Standard Ale Yeast 5g The pouch addition options: Brewing Sugar Required: 1.2kg Pure Liquid Malt Extract or 1kg Dextrose OK I'll do my best to explain why your beer is not tasting as expected. First & foremost your choice to use a mix of dextrose & maltodextrin in place of the liquid malt extract option has increased the noticeable bitterness of the beer inline with what you are tasting. If you had chosen the liquid malt extract option for a few more bucks you would not be experiencing this. Choose malt ahead of dextrose/maltodextrin as an option in almost all cases. The suggested SG/FG for the beer of 1.005 leaves very little body left in the beer to 'soften' bitterness (IBU), & given an expected 28-36 IBU, I'm not surprised it tastes bitter. Your choice to use dextrose/maltodextrin ahead of the malt extract option has accentuated this in what you taste. It would border on tasting like an IPA from what you describe & I'm not the least bit surprised now that I know what has been assembled & brewed. If you weren't down near 20°C for the ferment temp it would also introduce a few not-so-welcome esters into the pie as well. As far as the yeast quantity of 5gms that was supplied, Otto Von Blotto & the other "yeast daddy's" here on the forum would & probably will have a field day on that. Summarizing, I'm not the least bit surprised at what you are tasting atm. Cheers & best of luck with the brew, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 thanks for this info but have one question, where did it mention the LME as an option? Now that its known its the user, not the product, ill put the link I had for it. When I read about it online, the only options it had was 1kg dextrose or an enhancer pack. Anyway, I greatly appreciate this info and always figured it was something I had done as these beers are a serious business these days and I didn't think they would let you make a beer this bitter lol. If its unsaveable then it may just have to be mixed with a bit of lemonade or something, but I'll get through it! https://www.cleverbrewing.com.au/mangrove-jacks-lucky-goat-pale-ale.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 When its carbonated it will taste a lot less harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, worry wort said: oh, thanks for the clarification OVB, I thought it stood for brew in a bag lol. yep, have noticed the samplers in the past to be more bitter than the drinking brew at 3 or so weeks, but this is very, very bitter. But, being an aussie male, ill drink what I make It does, but it is an all grain brewing technique where grain is mashed in a very very fine mesh bag using the entire amount of water needed for the batch, rather than mashing in a container with less water then sparging (rinsing) the grains with more water into a boiling pot. What Lusty has written makes sense and is what I was getting at in my post about using malt instead of dextrose/maltodextrin to mix with the hopped extract. As for the 5g yeast, I'm not gonna go off on a long winded post about it, suffice to say it's sweet FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyBrew2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 . I’m very much a novice brewer myself with a heap to learn. I owe so much to all and sundry on here for being able to make something I deem to be good but between BIAB getting reinvented here and old mate popping the top of the extract tin looking for instructions in the other thread , I have had a couple of chuckles on here today. No disrespect to either. It’s a vast world of knowledge and acronyms in this brewing game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: It does, but it is an all grain brewing technique where grain is mashed in a very very fine mesh bag using the entire amount of water needed for the batch, rather than mashing in a container with less water then sparging (rinsing) the grains with more water into a boiling pot. What Lusty has written makes sense and is what I was getting at in my post about using malt instead of dextrose/maltodextrin to mix with the hopped extract. As for the 5g yeast, I'm not gonna go off on a long winded post about it, suffice to say it's sweet FA it may be FA but it ain't sweet! yep, I always heed your advice, and did get what a BIAB, just what I thought it meant lol. I have a long list of other recipes off here I'm going to try, but as stated in my original post, I try to stick to the basics in the first of any new beer to get an idea of how it should be. Always appreciate any advice you offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Hi Worry Wort. 15 hours ago, worry wort said: thanks for this info but have one question, where did it mention the LME as an option?...When I read about it online, the only options it had was 1kg dextrose or an enhancer pack. The "pouch" link I provided above has the following info listed on the page... Quote Brewing Sugar Required: 1.2kg Pure Liquid Malt Extract or 1kg Dextrose If you're not in a hurry to bottle it, you could ferment some unhopped extract & blend it with the current beer & then bottle it. The increase in malt percentage of the new blended beer should take the edge off the current bitterness. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worry wort Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 thanks for the tip, will try it and let you know. cheers ww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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