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Hey guys

Looking for ideas on improving/experimenting with the coopers Australian Pale Ale kit.

I currently have:

1x Australian Pale Ale 1.7kg

1x Brew enhancer 2 1kg

I also have on hand Simcoe, Centennial and Riwaka hops.

Just wondering what hop schedule I could do for the above hops or if could add any specialty grains to pimp the standard kit out a bit

Any ideas or input would be great! 

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G'day Sam and welcome to the forum.

One of the best beers I ever brewed as a kit based brewer was with that tin and enhancer. For the life of me I can't remember what was in it though.

Some of the extract brewers could answer you better but the hops you have on hand will make for something delicious.

Im sure @Norris! could be a very good helping hand with this query.

Captain.

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Cheers Kirk.

Sam with the aussie pale ale kit you have some crystal malts so depending on what your after, is there a specific beer, you could keep the crystal out or add 250g of caramalt, which will give it some body, freshness, color and help with head retention a little.

The BE2 has maltodextrin in it so the head should be ok, but 250g of carapils always helps bring some freshness to the kits and helps with head retention also. I pretty much add carapils to all my kits.

With the BE2 I would do a 5l boil with 450g to 500g of the BE2 and then depending on how bitter you want it, I think this kit is right next the Mexican cerveza in bitterness so around 20 to 25 but dont quote me, but if you wanted something around tasty I would do this:

flameout 15g simcoe, 15g centennial, 25g riwaka and let steep for 10 minutes and then place in a sink of ice water to cool off. If you like bitter beers then I would increase the steep to 15 to 20 minutes.

You could then either do another flameout addition OR save the hops for a nice big dry hop of maybe the same ratio. I find simcoe to be a little dank but brings great aroma also so If you like dank the  up the simcoe. But maybe try to offset the hops to try to highlight a specific aroma/taste you want with a 1:1:2 ratio with riwaka being heavy in the dry hop and flameout.

If you dont mind a little bitterness the  even push the boil up and start at 15 min and down with 10g of simcoe at 15min. 25g of riwaka at 5 minutes and 15g of centennial at 5min. Then do the same ratio at flameout. Then same ratio for dry hop up to 100g. I find 100g gives great aroma that lasts.

Let me know if you have anymore questions or I am sure someone else could definitely help out. These suggestions only call for the addition of carapils or caramalt and maybe some more hops but I tried to keep it with what you had.

Cheers

Norris

Edited by Norris!
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Water, Hops, Yeast & some magic. Some malt helps too.

You appear to have all the right hop ingredients to sort that part of the equation?

Don't forget to bin the tin yeast and whack in a good one.

Good water not Adelaide tap water!!

Cheers

Edited by YeastyBoy
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Thanks for the reply and detailed responses Norris & captain!!!! Much appreciated.

Your first suggestion sounds like it will produce something that I will enjoy.

Fingers crossed it work out.

Thanks again 

Sam 

 

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I used to always do just a flameout with the cerveza kit, usually with a combo of up to 50g and it made a really good beer. I find that a little hops goes a long way in improving a kit, like Yeasty said. I would also do a big dry hop and these beers were excellent.

I stopped using BE1 and BE2 and will only use BE3 out of the brew enhancers, but I prefer a mix of 750g light dry malt extract, 250g wheat dry malt extract, 250g dextrose and 250g carapils or caramalt the lightest kind. This mix gives me a nice flavour and makes a good base for tropical ales pacific ales or whatever you call them, for my tastes and the beers I generally brew. You could then add or sub in oats, crushed grains as a sub for the malt extract or wheat and so on depending on time and equipment. But if simple works I do it. I do extract because I am time poor but adding in partial mashes helps grow your knowledge...but eats into time, but so beneficial.

Cheers

Norris

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No reason to bin the kit yeast, it's quite a good yeast. Obviously you could replace it with a different one but instead of binning it, keep it in the fridge. You never know when you might need it. 

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Yeah never bin it i agree. Not a massive fan of the kit yeast but good in emergencies. I also use old ones in the last 15 mins of the boil. Some nutrients for the yeast to come.

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1 minute ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Yeah never bin it i agree. Not a massive fan of the kit yeast but good in emergencies. I also use old ones in the last 15 mins of the boil. Some nutrients for the yeast to come.

I do the same, not that I have a lot of kit yeasts anymore. I kept them in the fridge for emergencies and when hey started to get a bit old I used them in the boil.

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most of my recipes use this can as a base...however i use LDM rather than the BE2 (due to the maltidextrin as it thins out the beer ive found)

A mate brews the APA can and BE2 and ive found his dont head as much as mine and are "thin tasting" beers

i brew the can, 500-1kg LDM and some dextrose if im wanting a "lighter, thinner" beer. Having the 1kg of LDM can make the beers heavy tasting and hard to session on ive found.

This was the last brew i made

1 x APA can

1 x 500g LDM

1 x 200g Dextrose

20g Citra @20min

20g Citra f/o

20g Galaxy f/o 20min @80c

2 x coopers yeast rehydrated (what i had left over)

@20c

1032 OG

gonna dry hop but cant decide all galaxy or some citra and some galaxy...have about 40g citra and 60 galaxy

 

any hops with that schedule will give bitterness and good flavour (from past brews i have done)

Edited by RepSpec
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Dextrose doesn’t really thin out the beer, it just doesn’t increase the final gravity.

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9 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Dextrose doesn’t really thin out the beer, it just doesn’t increase the final gravity.

well there is one for the water chemists ... I could have a nerdy moment but I wont ... 

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31 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

well there is one for the water chemists ... I could have a nerdy moment but I wont ... 

Cool, there are too many nerds here as it is. We need more jocks!

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Not of itself no, but if you replace a portion of malt with dextrose then the FG is usually lower than it would have been with all malt.

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58 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Cool, there are too many nerds here as it is. We need more jocks!

unfortunately or is it fortunately I have a bit from column A and a bit from column B ... so nerdy jock ... 

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1 minute ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

unfortunately or is it fortunately I have a bit from column A and a bit from column B ... so nerdy jock ... 

Cricket Statistician?

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11 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

I have been following with interest but have not seen a yeast recommendation yet...  what would the brain trust recommend ... 

Australian pale ale. Only one yeast for me. WLP009 or get the yeast from a 6 pack of coopers pale ale. Its an awesome yeast. 

Have a lookat the thread below. 

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Feeling a bit lazy and have some APA kits, some LDM and some Citra, Cenntenniel and Galaxy hops.

I'm thinking I might just do a bit of a boil/flame out with the hops and bung it all together.

I added Carapils to my last 6 brews but couldn't see much improvement in head retention, much the same as this fellow: http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/28/dextrine-malt-pt-1-the-impact-of-carapils-on-various-beer-characteristics-exbeeriment-results/

In defence of Carapils, I think I might have done a few boils with the concentration of tin/carapils/LDM too high. I don't know if that would have had an effect on the head retention but I understand it may have affected the extraction from the hops.

Anyway any suggestions would be appreciated. 

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The reason why I do not use the Coopers extract yeast is you have no idea what temps it has been subjected to sitting in the top of tin during transportation and warehousing. The other reason is they are only 7g packets which is in my view a little suboptimal given point one. I prefer the 11.5g pack. No brand names.

Like you guys, I have kept them for emergencies and when I cannot get anymore on the shelf, I dig them out of the fridge and bin everything that is older than a year. So I never use them so I reckon binning them straight up and saving yourself a job down the track.

 

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5 hours ago, DonPolo said:

Feeling a bit lazy and have some APA kits, some LDM and some Citra, Cenntenniel and Galaxy hops.

I'm thinking I might just do a bit of a boil/flame out with the hops and bung it all together.

I added Carapils to my last 6 brews but couldn't see much improvement in head retention, much the same as this fellow: http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/28/dextrine-malt-pt-1-the-impact-of-carapils-on-various-beer-characteristics-exbeeriment-results/

In defence of Carapils, I think I might have done a few boils with the concentration of tin/carapils/LDM too high. I don't know if that would have had an effect on the head retention but I understand it may have affected the extraction from the hops.

Anyway any suggestions would be appreciated. 

I find carapils brings freshness to an extract brew, like any grain addition would, but I cannot say for sure whether or not the carapils is the main reason for, what I feel is, good head retention and body due to the 250g of wheat dry malt  or more I usually add to these brews. The wheat is known to help with head and body.

I think the carapil additions could be skipped but if your a new brewer and want to expand your repertoire, the addition is simple and can be subbed for any spec grain like caramalt and will lead to experience with partial mashes and then all grain by understanding temp for mashes and such.

Why not try some wheat malt extract with the brew? Depending on your bitterness preference, you could start a boil from 15min down or all flameout and do a nice keg hop/dry hop. I think all of those hops would work great together.  My personal preference would be to go heavy on the Centennial and Citra like 2:2:1 ratio with galaxy being the 1.

Maybe this:

20g centennial and citra at flameout with another 10g of galaxy? I like hops so I would double those additions or do 35g of each and 15g of galaxy. But that is my preference, you might like galaxy and hate centennial so switch them.

Or this;

15g centennial 15 min boil

25g citra and centennial at flameout with 15g of galaxy. 40g dry hop of citra and centennial and 20g of galaxy.

Honestly any brew you make with these hops will be good .

Cheers

Norris

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3 hours ago, DonPolo said:

...I added Carapils to my last 6 brews but couldn't see much improvement in head retention,...

...Anyway any suggestions would be appreciated. 

I find with this grain you need a little more weight than most crystal malts that help add mouthfeel & body to your beer. CaraPils is technically a Dextrin malt W/E the @#$% that means. I think it's kilned slightly differently to cara/crystal malts. Bottom line is a greater percentage of the wort run-off from it is fermentable. The lighter the malts in this category, the higher percentage the fermentability ratio of the wort that comes from it.

There is a bit of confusion between head development & head retention. Add a little wheat into your grist to help with head development, then add approx. 300gms of this grain to help you with retaining that head.

5 hours ago, YeastyBoy said:

The reason why I do not use the Coopers extract yeast is you have no idea what temps it has been subjected to sitting in the top of tin during transportation and warehousing. The other reason is they are only 7g packets which is in my view a little suboptimal given point one. I prefer the 11.5g pack. No brand names.

Much of this is a myth & has little substance. I admit I used to believe in a lot of this rhetoric on the back of others misinformation. I've since learned that dry yeast has much more tolerance to higher temperatures before reaching dangerous zones that can adversely affect their survival rate above liquid yeasts.

I've successfully used the Coopers base ale 7gm kit yeasts to ferment out brews with an OG of 1.048 with no obvious flavour negatives present in the final beer. Given the 7gm sachet is designed to ferment out kit & kilo brews that have an OG of around 1.040, I'd say it does a pretty damn good job at punching above its weight.

With yeast quantities, understand the limitations by weight (or cell counts) & you'll generally be fine. 😉

Cheers,

Lusty.

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21 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

I find with this grain you need a little more weight than most crystal malts that help add mouthfeel & body to your beer. CaraPils is technically a Dextrin malt W/E the @#$% that means. I think it's kilned slightly differently to cara/crystal malts. Bottom line is a greater percentage of the wort run-off from it is fermentable. The lighter the malts in this category, the higher percentage the fermentability ratio of the wort that comes from it.

Dextrin malts/grains have been kilned in a way to extract dextrins, which are non-fermentable long chain sugars. Not sure how fermentable wort you would get from Carapils but I wouldn’t think it would be much. I could be wrong.

Do many AG brewers on here use carapils? I never really understood the purpose of it in an AG brew when you can control the fermentability and the amount of dextrins produced by the mash temperature.

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