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Hey guys,

I have a bunch of Mosaic I have no idea what to use with. I have been warned that it is very strong and will overpower your beer if to much is used.

So see attached attempt at plagiarism.

Any thoughts on combination or possible combinations to go with Mosaic?

PS should have a dedicated thread to each hop.

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Also the yeast in working on upgrading that one to a liquid one for 'IPA' but as a base I'll only adjust hops for this round.

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Hey Gully. 

Ive just kegged a what I called MAC daddy. Mosaic, Amarillo and Chinook. Bittered with Warrior. Should be spicy/fruity/citrus

ill probably crack one tonight. 

I also think mosaic is really nice as a single flavour hop. If you add at numerous timings you seem to get different layers of flavour, similar to that if cascade. 

I made a single flavour hop beer all mosaic  that was completely smashable back in my single hop beer phase and was thinking of doing that again very soon. Which was going to look like this.

It is such a nice hop. 

A09C9B2B-E6FB-4BCC-9AA9-5A39E8090876.png

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Hi @Gully85 

IMO you need to increase the dry hop amount. 48 grams is quite a small for an IPA. I usually dry hop 150 grams in my IPA and last time I tried 300 grams!!

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Yeah it's an experiment, will maybe do as captain has done and do a single hop addition. 

Cheers BB, this one and my previous NEIPA I want to do asap. Or combine the 2?? Hmmm

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20 minutes ago, Gully85 said:

Yeah it's an experiment, will maybe do as captain has done and do a single hop addition. 

Cheers BB, this one and my previous NEIPA I want to do asap. Or combine the 2?? Hmmm

It’s yours to do how you want mate!!

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Mixing geraniol rich hops like Centennial with 4MMP rich hops like Mosaic results in some wonderful synergy / bioconversion.  Great combo.

Here is an article to get you started on this idea:

https://beerandbrewing.com/hops-oils--aroma-uncharted-waters/

I have signed up for Stan's free newsletter "Hop Queries." It is always an interesting read.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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Tried mosaic in a few combos and always turns out sweet as, I love the flavor it throws. Mosaic, Galaxy, Simcoe or Mosaic, Citra, Amarillo are always winners for me. Cheers Christina for the article very interesting read 😀

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Latest MAC Daddy just tried tonight was marvellous. 

Mosaic, Amarillo and Chinook. 

Very nice combo.

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7 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

Centennial and Mosaic do work well together. 

Nice link Christina 

Err yeah. My Mosaic Amber Ale recipe uses this mix & opened a few eyes after I posted the recipe using this combination. Given 265 replies, & 19,962 views since my initial post in 2014 I'd say it has certainly had more than a passing interest for some home brewers. Enough so that Coopers eventually devised a kit based recipe very similar to it at some point thereafter.

A citrus hop in the mix with Mosaic works very well. Mosaic has a very unique blueberry-like aroma & late boil flavour (among other characters) that sets it apart from any other hop I am aware of. If positioned well in the boil phase & dry hopped correctly, you don't need massive amounts of it even in a very hoppy & aromatically driven IPA.

Just my 2 cents,

Lusty.

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20 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Err yeah. My Mosaic Amber Ale recipe uses this mix & opened a few eyes after I posted the recipe using this combination. Given 265 replies, & 19,962 views since my initial post in 2014 I'd say it has certainly had more than a passing interest for some home brewers. Enough so that Coopers eventually devised a kit based recipe very similar to it at some point thereafter.

A citrus hop in the mix with Mosaic works very well. Mosaic has a very unique blueberry-like aroma & late boil flavour (among other characters) that sets it apart from any other hop I am aware of. If positioned well in the boil phase & dry hopped correctly, you don't need massive amounts of it even in a very hoppy & aromatically driven IPA.

Just my 2 cents,

Lusty.

Hope that wasn’t a dig Lusty. 

I am yet to brew your Mosaic Amber ale as I’ve now been requested by my wife to brew a couple of others first, but my next “experimental” brew will be one of that, (minus the wyeast 1450). If it turns out good, the second lot will definitely be with 1450 though, just to see if it’s better 😉

I’m going to have more of a look at your most recent recipe and try to translate that to BIAB. More questions coming your way Lusty.

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Hope that wasn’t a dig Lusty.

Me?? No. 😜

Given the link you referred to is only 2yrs old, "no, no...I was just poking around..." (sorry, got off on a Eddy Murphy Beverly Hills Cop tangent again there!)

I am yet to brew your Mosaic Amber ale

It drinks really well fairly fresh in the Autumn. For it's lowish ABV% it gives a lot I reckon.

If you ever get interested enough to brew it, you'll figure out the rest. 😉

Have you brewed & tasted that heavy weighted low EBC crystal malted Pale Ale yet? Soz if I missed your posts on it. PM me about your thoughts.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

Edited by Beerlust

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17 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Me?? No. 😜

Given the link you referred to is only 2yrs old, "no, no...I was just poking around..." (sorry, got off on a Eddy Murphy Beverly Hills Cop tangent again there!)

Well your a cheeky man then aren’t ya.

The link I referred to was also attached to Christina, that posts very good information for all users of this forum. Regardless of the age of the information, it’s relevant today, for today’s forum users, therefore, “Nice link Christina.”

She is also one of our very few female forum members and I support diversity in our discussions. Along with that, if other female non forum members are reading these posts, I like to respond positively as to attract more diversity within our forum. 

10 minutes ago, Beerlust said:
Have you brewed & tasted that heavy weighted low EBC crystal malted Pale Ale yet?

Yes I have, my captains choice bro pale was very much down this line, with 20% crystal in the grist, most people were apposed to it but you. My interest in this started well before your mosaic amber came to my attention. Which is why your recipe came to my attention. I had never brewed anything similar before. 

Thanks for the invite to PM, let me look about and see what I can transpose to see what you think about the recipe. 

Also, Gully started this thread for information for his query, it’s not about you mate! 🤪

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6 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

Well your a cheeky man then aren’t ya.

The link I referred to was also attached to Christina, that posts very good information for all users of this forum. Regardless of the age of the information, it’s relevant today, for today’s forum users, therefore, “Nice link Christina.”

No problems there. I was simply making the point that I have known this for sometime.

6 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

...She is also one of our very few female forum members and I support diversity in our discussions. Along with that, if other female non forum members are reading these posts, I like to respond positively as to attract more diversity within our forum.

I'm fully aware of this, & yes Christina is a shining light in that regard.

6 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

...Also, Gully started this thread for information for his query, it’s not about you mate! 🤪

😕

Hence why I offered my thoughts about the hop.

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  On 1/29/2019 at 8:42 AM, Beerlust said:

Err yeah. My Mosaic Amber Ale recipe uses this mix & opened a few eyes after I posted the recipe using this combination. Given 265 replies, & 19,962 views since my initial post in 2014 I'd say it has certainly had more than a passing interest for some home brewers. Enough so that Coopers eventually devised a kit based recipe very similar to it at some point thereafter.

 

  On 1/29/2019 at 9:34 AM, Beerlust said:
....the link you referred to is only 2yrs old....

Not sure why you are knocking me for using a two year old link. The information is still relevant. I was just trying to help Gully understand the science behind why the combo works so well. 

  22 hours ago, Beerlust said:

I was simply making the point that I have known this for sometime.

You seem to be looking for a pat on the back Lusty, so hurray for you for experimenting and finding that Centennial and Mosaic are a good combo. Hurray for you for being the first to post about it on the forum. Hurray for you that Coopers made an Amber Ale ROTM using Centennial and Mosaic (and Amarillo). BTW, it is a good thing you mentioned your recipe also contains Centennial. Never having made it I was not aware of that, because of the name. 

But wait, I just took a look at your recipe: you only use Centennial for bittering. I can see why you called it "Mosaic Amber Ale." 

I am not sure that synergy between Centennial's geraniol and Mosaic's 4MMP accounts for the deliciousness of your recipe Lusty. Would Centennial's geraniol survive a 60 minute boil? Doesn't synergy only come into play when hops rich in these compounds are are used for late additions, and dry hopping, as in Cooper's Midnight Mosaic Amber recipe? 🤔  As the article I linked to earlier indicates, Mosaic itself is also rich in geraniol. So, in your recipe, perhaps Mosaic is just interacting with itself?

FWIW though, the geraniol level in Centennial is head-and-shoulders above most other aroma hops, even other hops considered rich in geraniol, like Mosaic (1.14% vs 0.59% source: https://scottjanish.com/2014-hop-harvest-data/)

Christina.

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I used the two together in an IPA. Lovely flavour and aroma from all the late and dry hops, just not bitter enough in the end. Cloudy as hell. A proto-NEIPA perhaps? 😂

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1 hour ago, joolbag said:

So @Otto Von Blotto you were the first to invent the NEIPA!  Was it also two years ago? 😛

3 and a half years ago. I did enjoy that batch but not as much as I would have if I'd put in more bitterness from the long boiled hops. It came out a bit sweet for my liking. Not a failure, but it could have been better.

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Thank you all, but this will do. I have my tips, 

1. Good mix of hops, adjust for flavour next time around.

2. Citra/mosaic, Centennial/mosaic go well together due to them been awesome.

3. Don't use to much mosaic.

4. So I am going to add more dry hops, but before hand I think I might do a standard pale version to test the tastes out. Lower IBU and simplify the grain bill.

I will add, enough with rubbing your ego's if someone makes a comment just let it go I think they call some of above, trolling. Think the movie 'Frozen' and ignore the comment.

Thank you all for the links and tips they have all been very helpful. 

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I have a hit and miss record with Mosaic. I used it a fair few times in the past and sometimes it really shone and other times it was quite dull. It may have been differences between different harvests but I have been hesitant to use it again. I should give it a go.

I used to make a pale ale with Cascade and Mosaic and those hops went really well together. I should have 'patented' it on the forum so that I had bragging rights.

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16 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:
  On 1/29/2019 at 8:42 AM, Beerlust said:

Err yeah. My Mosaic Amber Ale recipe uses this mix & opened a few eyes after I posted the recipe using this combination. Given 265 replies, & 19,962 views since my initial post in 2014 I'd say it has certainly had more than a passing interest for some home brewers. Enough so that Coopers eventually devised a kit based recipe very similar to it at some point thereafter.

 

  On 1/29/2019 at 9:34 AM, Beerlust said:
....the link you referred to is only 2yrs old....

Not sure why you are knocking me for using a two year old link. The information is still relevant. I was just trying to help Gully understand the science behind why the combo works so well. 

No-one is knocking you Christina. That is all in your own head.  I don't take pot shots at individuals, only the topics themselves. The only mistake I made in the quote I referenced, was to include the "Nice Link Christina". So I apologise if you felt I was having a dig at you personally. I never mentioned your name in anything I personally wrote as a retort so that's as far as my apology extends.

17 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:
22 hours ago, Beerlust said:

I was simply making the point that I have known this for sometime.

You seem to be looking for a pat on the back Lusty, so hurray for you for experimenting and finding that Centennial and Mosaic are a good combo. Hurray for you for being the first to post about it on the forum. Hurray for you that Coopers made an Amber Ale ROTM using Centennial and Mosaic (and Amarillo). BTW, it is a good thing you mentioned your recipe also contains Centennial. Never having made it I was not aware of that, because of the name. 

I'm not in this for pats on the back, likes or dislikes.

On a rare occasion I actually made reference to a beer recipe I developed that I am quite proud of. Yeah shame on me. How dare I?

17 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

But wait, I just took a look at your recipe: you only use Centennial for bittering. I can see why you called it "Mosaic Amber Ale." 

A very uneducated view from someone that has never brewed the beer, or more importantly, tasted it. The primary aroma of the beer certainly comes from the Mosaic, but there are residual citrus flavour tones from the Centennial. A lot of brewers understand aromas & flavours, but a great many don't understand what residual characteristics can be created by different hops at traditional bittering points of the boil.

17 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

I am not sure that synergy between Centennial's geraniol and Mosaic's 4MMP accounts for the deliciousness of your recipe Lusty. Would Centennial's geraniol survive a 60 minute boil? Doesn't synergy only come into play when hops rich in these compounds are are used for late additions, and dry hopping, as in Cooper's Midnight Mosaic Amber recipe? 🤔  As the article I linked to earlier indicates, Mosaic itself is also rich in geraniol. So, in your recipe, perhaps Mosaic is just interacting with itself?

FWIW though, the geraniol level in Centennial is head-and-shoulders above most other aroma hops, even other hops considered rich in geraniol, like Mosaic (1.14% vs 0.59% source: https://scottjanish.com/2014-hop-harvest-data/)

It's great that you have a source of information that you trust & can relate to on some level(s). You've referenced Scott Janish often. I have my fav's too. At the end of the day though all the literature in the world amounts to squat until you put it into practice & physically brew the beers on the back of the ideals suggested & then learn from it. It is only then that you will have a REAL sense about what is being spoken about & advised. The best knowledge you will gain from making beer will always be what you taste at the glass.

On a closing note (just generally speaking), if you post on an open forum expect that not everyone will agree with everything you say &/or advise. We're all different people with different ideas about all things in life. I accept difference, & accept that not everything I say &/or suggest will be agreed upon & am quite comfortable in that space. As part of that process I'm not here to cuddle the emotionally fragile that cannot take criticism or questioning of their references, suggestions or ideologies.

Cheers & good brewing to all,

Lusty.

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Well we are all here for the beer, right? Let's get on with it. 

Cheers,

Christina.

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So further to the discussion of the Mosaic and Centennial combo, and taking Lusty at his word that Centennial contributes residual citrus flavours when used for bittering, I did a little research into how geraniol stands up in the boil. I could not find any specific studies on the topic but according to this link, which describes its physical properties, geraniol is one of the rare hop oils that has a flash point (108C) above the boiling point of water / wort.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/geraniol#section=Boiling-Point

I am not certain if geraniol accounts for the residual citrus notes of Centennial when used for bittering, but it may be a possibility. If so, it might make an ideal bittering hop for fruity beers such as IPAs, NEIPAs, APAs, and even beers with real fruit additions, due to its exceptionally high geraniol level. This fruitiness may be enhanced when high 4MMP hops are used for low temperature hop stands and dry hoppping. The flash point of 4MMP is 64C.

Cheers,

Christina. 

Edited by ChristinaS1
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22 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

The flash point of 4MMP is 64C.

Cheers,

Christina. 

Very nice words Christina. I think what you have said is spot on in experience. I find qualities from centennial bittering fantastic. 

For the flash point, I wonder if the cube hopping and chilling movement may change that environment considering any vaporising is captured..... I’m not arguing just wondering how this chilling would effect those oils and the flash point.....

a lot of IPAS and hoppy pales I’ve done with centennial as the buttering hop have turned out wonderful, infact a 100% strike rate.

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