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International series yeast strain

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Morning lads,

just a query in regards to coopers international series yeast, i currently have three yeasts in my fridge 1 from an apa the other 2 from cervaza's,( the same yeast strain i believe ) my question is (and i do apologize starting a new thread if this question has indeed been resolved ) is, seeing there is part lager strain in these yeasts can i throw all three yeasts in and brew it at 12-15°c as a straight lager strain?

Thanks in advance for you all getting out bed so early to answer this!

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Posted (edited)

I frequently throw those in together on kits n bits leftover brews, but I wouldn't brew them that cold.  The lager strain is the lesser amount in the mix (if I remember correctly) so I never go much below 20 degrees which Coopers often lists as the temp to brew in their recipes.  Obviously this only works with ales, but for a simple brew I find this yeast quite good.

 

I've never noticed any lager character in these brews, but they ferment out quickly and nicely.  Lawnmower lager recipe is good swilling beer, just add some extra Hallertau hops.

Edited by Beervis
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Interesting question, but it seems much easier to just buy a lager yeast.

If you knew the weight of lager yeast in the blend you could figure out how many sachets you need for one lager brew.

I suppose the effect of the ale part of the yeast would depend on fermenting temperature.  At say 12 degrees maybe the ale yeast would go to sleep and do nothing.  At 15 degrees maybe it will do some fermenting? 

What happens when you bottle the brew and the temperature rises to ambient?  Will the ale yeast kick in and over carbonate your beer (bottle bombs)?  Or if the sugars are already fermented out will it do nothing?

Might be an interesting experiment, or I could just buy a lager yeast.

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Lager yeast ferment more thoroughly than ale yeast so it wouldn't result in over carbonated beer if it woke up in the bottles. 

It's a good yeast for brewing ales in winter if they are being bottled and there's no way to keep the bottles warm. The primary fermentation can be kept warm but the bottles get colder; the lager portion of the yeast will still work so they will still carbonate.

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Thanks for the feedback mates, 

To answer your question shamus, my Lhbs is closed over the festive season..(fair enough to by the way, i should have gotten a little more organized before Christmas ) so, i really wanted to lager a cervaza kit but i thought just maybe if i used enough ale/lager strain kit yeast (×3sashes) that might get me over the line. But i think ill use a fermentis us05 yeast instead for a pusedo lager experience,  cold crash it too.

After reading kelsey last response i never considered using those yeasts for winter time bottle conditioning,  i through 1 sashe in with a Nottingham or a us04 for my winter stouts.

 

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15 hours ago, blurred said:

seeing there is part lager strain in these yeasts can i throw all three yeasts in and brew it at 12-15°c as a straight lager strain?

I did this over the previous winter and it produced some great lagers... And a great mead. 

Cheers, 

John 

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8 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

I did this over the previous winter and it produced some great lagers... And a great mead. 

 

So you have done this before john(!?!)

May i ask mate how many sashès of ale/lager strain did you use there? And what temperatures did you brew your lagers at? 

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58 minutes ago, blurred said:

So you have done this before john(!?!)

May i ask mate how many sashès of ale/lager strain did you use there? And what temperatures did you brew your lagers at? 

I sure have!

I had a Wyeast Gambrinus lager pack that was as dead as a doornail 72 hours after pitching into 11l of 1.050 OG Aramis pils. So as a backup I pitched 2 packs of the kit ale / lager yeast. It took off in no time at 12C, fermented out well and tasted great.

If my memory serves me correctly I then repitched into a 1.080 OG Doppelbock and a 1.050 OG second runnings amber lager. I then repitched from the amber lager into a 1.040 OG Aramis pils, then into a 1.070 DIPL, then finally into a 1.112 OG mead. All around 11l batches except for the second runnings lager and mead which were around 9. All fermented at around 12C and all tasted great. 

It's hardy yeast, fermented the mead to 14.3% abv before giving up the ghost!

Cheers, 

John

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6 minutes ago, porschemad911 said:

I sure have!

I had a Wyeast Gambrinus lager pack that was as dead as a doornail 72 hours after pitching into 11l of 1.050 OG Aramis pils. So as a backup I pitched 2 packs of the kit ale / lager yeast. It took off in no time at 12C, fermented out well and tasted great.

If my memory serves me correctly I then repitched into a 1.080 OG Doppelbock and a 1.050 OG second runnings amber lager. I then repitched from the amber lager into a 1.040 OG Aramis pils, then into a 1.070 DIPL, then finally into a 1.112 OG mead. All around 11l batches except for the second runnings lager and mead which were around 9. All fermented at around 12C and all tasted great. 

It's hardy yeast, fermented the mead to 14.3% abv before giving up the ghost!

Cheers, 

John

Wow.  I'm really surprised that worked out so well.  I would've thought there wouldn't be enough lager yeast in the mix for some of those high OG's, plus I would've assumed 12-15d would be too cold for the ale part.  Did you make a starter?  And with the re-pitching, is that washing the yeast first or a more she'll be right method?

For a long time I didn't use that yeast at all, because when I first started brewing the wisdom seemed to be that Coopers yeast would produce inferior flavours/kit taste.  I still wouldn't use it exclusively with more interesting brews, but I find it works great for keg filler type beers.  If it can handle that mead, I was obviously wrong about it!

 

 

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Yeah but the batches are only around 10-11 litres and with repitching you have access to more yeast than comes in the sachet, it'd be different with the usual 20 odd litre batches, at least for the first pitch.

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3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah but the batches are only around 10-11 litres and with repitching you have access to more yeast than comes in the sachet, it'd be different with the usual 20 odd litre batches, at least for the first pitch.

What if i did a 20 litre med- strength kelsey? Still not enough lager strain?

The yeast sashè's are 7g's each so iam guessing 4g's of ale strain 3g's is lager which i would × by 3, so that's roughly 9g's of lager strain all up? 

Maybe i should just do it and see what happens if it doesn't work i could simply raise the temperature to 17/18°c.

 

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It would be getting close to the ideal pitching rate for a mid, although would still likely be under. How far under who knows, and whether it causes issues is an unknown as well. There's only one way to find out for sure though, brew it and see what happens.

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I bottle i don't keg,

so all that dormant ale yeast has me kinda worried, that during secondary fermentation ...fizzers and bombs!! I would have little choice but to give that batch away to extended family. (As gifts of course ).

Ill stick to us05& make a full strength up as i have surplus dme wich i need to be rid of...one of those kits & left- over bits, batch.

Thanks for your thoughts & wisdom lad's.

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Why? If the fermentation is complete, it doesn't matter if it's ale or lager yeast, it's still only gonna ferment the priming sugar. Just because it wakes up when it warms up doesn't mean it will ferment more. There's nothing for it to ferment.

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14 hours ago, Beervis said:

Wow.  I'm really surprised that worked out so well.  I would've thought there wouldn't be enough lager yeast in the mix for some of those high OG's, plus I would've assumed 12-15d would be too cold for the ale part.  Did you make a starter?  And with the re-pitching, is that washing the yeast first or a more she'll be right method? 

No starter. And yep, it's only the first pitch where cell count might be a concern. I was not at all worried though, and that first Aramis pils was terrific. From then on there's heaps of slurry. 

I have a tried and true method of repitching. On bottling day I soak a 1 litre mason jar and lid with my bottles. After bottling I leave maybe 5mm beer on top of the yeast cake. I swirl this up for a couple of minutes until it is an even consistency. 1 litre of this goes into the rinsed and Starsan-ed mason jar. When I pitch, I pour off most of the beer, swirl up the mason jar until it is an even consistency and pour the desired amount of slurry into my fermenter. Minimal chance of infection and yeast likes being stored under beer.

I have done this many, many times with great results. I don't repitch from beers much over 8% abv, but I have no qualms repitching from a very hoppy beer or from a dark beer into a light beer. The amount of beer carried over is such a minuscule proportion of the volume to be fermented that in my experience there is no flavour carry over.

Cheers, 

John

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4 hours ago, blurred said:

I bottle i don't keg,

so all that dormant ale yeast has me kinda worried, that during secondary fermentation ...fizzers and bombs!! I would have little choice but to give that batch away to extended family. (As gifts of course ).

I bottle, and had no issues with over-carbonation. I suspect the lager yeast is more attenuative than the ale yeast, so there isn't anything left for the ale yeast once temps rise. 

Cheers, 

John 

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6 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Why? If the fermentation is complete, it doesn't matter if it's ale or lager yeast, it's still only gonna ferment the priming sugar. Just because it wakes up when it warms up doesn't mean it will ferment more. There's nothing for it to ferment.

 

2 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

I bottle, and had no issues with over-carbonation. I suspect the lager yeast is more attenuative than the ale yeast, so there isn't anything left for the ale yeast once temps rise. 

Cheers, 

John 

Answered my question about the ale yeast waking up as temperature rises.  Makes complete sense now.

Cheers Shamus

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You all talked me into it!

Because iam most likely low on lager strain i am brewing just a very simple Midstrenght; 

21 litres

1.7kg of Cooper's Mexican cervaza. 

500g's of dme.

15g's of saaz @ 15 mins

× 3 international series lager/ale strain yeasts.

Og: 1.032

Its only just went into the fridge but ive set the ink bird at the warm end of the lager scale at 14°c, so if it stalls or the is no activity with in 2 days or so I'll warm the fv up to 17-18°C

Ill touch base in a few days & let you know how it's going..

 (right! time for a stiff f**king drink i reakon!)

 

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Good luck with it!  I reckon, don't overthink experiments, especially with kits n bits.  If it seems like it might be OK, just do it and hope for the best.  I've had some good results with that method!  After all, if it doesn't get infected the worst it can be is a bit ordinary.  And these days you pay $60 for a carton of ordinary so if it cost me $20/$30 for 2 and a bit cartons then I'm not complaining.

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My experience with the intl series yeast is it ferments well and cleanly at slightly lower then average ale temps. Whereas the ale yeast can add some funk or 'character'to the brew that needs some time to condition out, the hybrid yeast is neutral and I like it, and it will handle higher gravity then what yeast calculators tell you. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 5:46 PM, Beervis said:

For a long time I didn't use that yeast at all, because when I first started brewing the wisdom seemed to be that Coopers yeast would produce inferior flavours/kit taste.  I still wouldn't use it exclusively with more interesting brews, but I find it works great for keg filler type beers.  If it can handle that mead, I was obviously wrong about it!

 

 

Straight Coopers ale yeast will not produce inferior flavours or kit taste if not under pitched and fermented somewhere between 18-21C, and some say you can push it higher. If you are using a Brew Enhancer with your kit, one package will do, but if you are using all malt, you probably need two (depending on your OG).

The Coopers ale/lager blend that comes with the Cervesa and APA kits (used to come with a lot more kits) is one of my favourites. I usually use two rehydrated packets, or re-pitch slurry, fermented at 18C. Excellent results.  Clean and neutral. Great for IPAs, and APAs, and for bottle conditioning in winter, as has been mentioned.

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The kit yeast is dinning at a crisp 13°c. 

Prehaps the yeast strain should be call MacGyver yeast, for its sheer f**king resourcefulness.

Thankyou for your help mate's 

 

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