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Henry1525229471

Naturaly carbonated kegs

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Back on topic. When I first started kegging i used to prime the kegs with 30 carb drops while they waited to go on tap. Now I have 2 gas cylinders so don't need to do this now. Why 30? well I figured 19l gives me 25 long necks which is 2 drops per bottle= 50. I though this was way over the top so cut it back by 20, worked fine.

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4 hours ago, AlanT58 said:

So far beer hasn't made it all the way back to the manifold yet so fingers crossed

You should put a non return valve in. You could either put one on each line between the manifold and the kegs or put one between the regulator and the manifold. I know the valves in the manifold are meant to do the same thing but it's a bit of extra insurance.

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As for the original question, I've never bothered priming kegs for two reasons. One is that I prefer the flavour of the beer without the small secondary fermentation and the other is because I don't want to be waiting two or three weeks for the beer to carbonate when I can have it done overnight on the gas.

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10 hours ago, ekymetal13 said:

Thanks I’m interested in trying this as well.

Have you tried this amount ?

And I would treat it just like a big bottle and leave for 3 weeks before tapping ?

Cheers 

Ek 

Spot on. I have done in in 19L kegs. Use 100gm of sugar or dextrose. A lot of people put a bit of CO2 in there to seat the lid and they also purge the oxygen in the headspace as well. Dont see the point of doing that and have never done it. The secondary fermentation will eat the oxygen anyway and within 1 day usually its seated already with the co2 pressure.

I also agree with kelsey in that i don't do this for every style. I find it works well in saisons, belgians, aussie pale ales. For some styles i prefer forced carb. Lagers. Pale ales. IPAs etc. 

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Thanks for all your replies, The only reason I am going to carb the kegs is because I am having nothing but trouble carbing them with CO2.I have watched just about every thing on utube and as far as I can tell Iam doing things correctly but it,s just not working so I thought I would try priming the kegs instead I then might get a beer that's better than the flat /overcarbed piss I am getting now.

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1 minute ago, Henry1525229471 said:

The only reason I am going to carb the kegs is because I am having nothing but trouble carbing them with CO2

What has been your issue??

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2 minutes ago, Beer Baron said:

What has been your issue??

I am not sure as I said I believe I amdoing everything right, obviously I,m not but the beer is either flat good head but no life in the beer,or over carbed I have purged the keg I have crash chilled the beer before adding to the keg I have left it in the fridge after purging and adding 35 psi for 2 days I cut the pressure back to pouring pressure about 2psi when I pour and although it pours ok not great but ok the beer is flat.

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1 hour ago, Henry1525229471 said:

I am not sure as I said I believe I amdoing everything right, obviously I,m not but the beer is either flat good head but no life in the beer,or over carbed I have purged the keg I have crash chilled the beer before adding to the keg I have left it in the fridge after purging and adding 35 psi for 2 days I cut the pressure back to pouring pressure about 2psi when I pour and although it pours ok not great but ok the beer is flat.

After leaving it at 35 psi for 2 days and then purging and set to serving pressure it still may require a few days.

How long are your beer lines and what temp is your fridge??

2 psi is pretty low. Most guys pour between 10-12.

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It won't make any difference if you're not setting the gas pressure properly or your system is unbalanced (e.g. beer lines too short). 35 psi for two days is probably overcarbonating them, which is why they'd pour ok on such a low pressure. I've used such a process when degassing overcarbed kegs in order to still be able to pour from them without getting a full glass of foam. But otherwise they're poured on normal serving pressure.

My system is balanced. I have 2.2m long beer lines for each keg/tap, the fridge temp cycles between -1 and 1, although I suspect it's not that cold inside, and the gas pressure is set to 14psi to allow for the 3psi or so drop off from the check valves on the manifold, so it's really about 11psi going into the kegs. I often do the fast carb at 45psi for 20-22 hours but also just set and forget on serving pressure at times too. They're always perfectly carbonated, and pour fine.

Have a look at your beer lines and make sure they're the right length for your system. If they're too short you'll just pour foam unless you drop the  pressure right down, and over time this will degas the beer because it's not keeping the pressure up where it should be. If they're too long the pour will be slow and the beer may lose too much carbonation before it hits the glass. Once you sort the lines out, try carbonating a keg just on serving pressure without the high pressure, it'll take 7-10 days but it should be fine. 

Edited by Otto Von Blotto

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Thanks for your reply Beer Baron, the beer line is 5ft the fridge temp I cant really say I don't have the stc1000 hooked up I only use it when fermenting but it was down 4deg whenI cold crashed it I couldn't get any lower fridge, is in the shed and outside temps were in the 40s. If I poured higher than 2psi I got froth I came up with that pressure by turning pouring pressure back to 0 and holding the tap on and then turning up pressure at 2psi it started pouring without frothing up I don't recon I would get anything but froth at 10-12. I have seen on tube about the length and reasons of beer lines and then I see kegs with taps on the kegs and no beer lines at all so I am still abit mystified . I don't have a kegerator or keezer I intend if I ever get it right,chuck the keg into a tub of ice and take to where it will be drank.

I have a keg in the fridge now it has been there for 7 days and it,s cold I have gassed the keg to 40psi and I was going to degass when I tap in2days time but as OVB says it my be over carbonated sitting that long with 40psi init 

 

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I forgot to mention that my gas line is not hooked up to the keg I just pump gas into it and then bung the keg into the fridge theres not enough room for both

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Yeah, you're never gonna get proper and predictable carbonation by trying to gas it up outside the fridge then putting it in there afterwards. They need to carbonated at the temperature you're serving them at. 1.5m beer line probably isn't long enough either. You could get away with it with flow control taps but otherwise they usually need to be longer. 

I feel like the only way you will succeed with it is to get a dedicated keg fridge, whether it be a kegerator or a keezer, or just a normal fridge with door mounted taps. That way you can feed gas to the kegs while they're in the fridge. This goes for carbonation via the gas cylinder as well as with priming sugar, as with either method you still need gas on at serving pressure constantly, or at least during a session and a bit after it, otherwise the beer will gradually go flat as the keg empties as there's no gas coming in to keep the pressure where it needs to be to keep it carbonated. 

If or when you can get a setup going like that with a dedicated keg fridge of some kind, buy new beer lines about 3m long for each tap. It's too long, but you can shorten it bit by bit until it's the right length for your system which is much easier and cheaper than starting too short and lengthening it, which obviously requires the purchase of new line every time.

Unfortunately, until then you will likely keep having the same problem. ☹️

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11 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah, you're never gonna get proper and predictable carbonation by trying to gas it up outside the fridge then putting it in there afterwards. They need to carbonated at the temperature you're serving them at. 1.5m beer line probably isn't long enough either. You could get away with it with flow control taps but otherwise they usually need to be longer. 

I feel like the only way you will succeed with it is to get a dedicated keg fridge, whether it be a kegerator or a keezer, or just a normal fridge with door mounted taps. That way you can feed gas to the kegs while they're in the fridge. This goes for carbonation via the gas cylinder as well as with priming sugar, as with either method you still need gas on at serving pressure constantly, or at least during a session and a bit after it, otherwise the beer will gradually go flat as the keg empties as there's no gas coming in to keep the pressure where it needs to be to keep it carbonated. 

If or when you can get a setup going like that with a dedicated keg fridge of some kind, buy new beer lines about 3m long for each tap. It's too long, but you can shorten it bit by bit until it's the right length for your system which is much easier and cheaper than starting too short and lengthening it, which obviously requires the purchase of new line every time.

Unfortunately, until then you will likely keep having the same problem. ☹️

thanks OVB When I am drinking the beer the gas is hooked up at serving pressure it,s after I have filled the keg and gassed it that it goes in the fridge and if there,s any left in the keg that it goes back in the fridge gassed but not hooked up. 

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When you force carb at high pressure gas should be left on. In this case I think you best  methods can be:

  1. force card at ambient, needs longer for the beer to take the gas. 40 psi for 3 days.
  2. use lusty’s rocking method, chill the keg apply gas at 40 psi and rock and roll. Can someone post a link to that thread please.

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50 minutes ago, Titan said:

When you force carb at high pressure gas should be left on. In this case I think you best  methods can be:

  1. force card at ambient, needs longer for the beer to take the gas. 40 psi for 3 days.
  2. use lusty’s rocking method, chill the keg apply gas at 40 psi and rock and roll. Can someone post a link to that thread please.

I have used Lustys method, I still was,nt real happy I am still stuffing it up 

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I think you need to focus on balancing your system correctly before doing anything else

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What are you using to dispense the beer?

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Line length is only part of the equation,  what diameter lines are they ? 

I run 4 m of 5 mm ID line

Pressure 14-16 PSI 

Temp at the glass is 4-6 ° 

Lift height is 450 mm from mid point of keg. 

You can split hairs to include shank diameter and length as well and the slightly different internal resistance of different brands but that's for fine tuning. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Beer Baron said:

I think you need to focus on balancing your system correctly before doing anything else

yeah I will try and work that out

 

12 minutes ago, Titan said:

What are you using to dispense the beer?

A picnic tap on the end of 5 ft beer line

 

11 minutes ago, Mark D Pirate said:

Line length is only part of the equation,  what diameter lines are they ? 

I run 4 m of 5 mm ID line

Pressure 14-16 PSI 

Temp at the glass is 4-6 ° 

Lift height is 450 mm from mid point of keg. 

You can split hairs to include shank diameter and length as well and the slightly different internal resistance of different brands but that's for fine tuning. 

 

 

I must admit I didn't go into it that far I

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Henry I used to use picnic taps on my kegs, but had the gas hooked up. The thing to remember is that with the picnic taps, well all taps, is to open then up all the way and not just 3/4 of the way. I used to get foamy glasses until I just held it down all the way and tilted the glass at an angle to pour it onto the sides and not straight down into the bottom of the glass, like at keggers with plastic cups. The picnic taps I used only had about a meter of hose, so 5 ft might be a little long for the tap unless that is how it came.

Besides that everyone else hit most things.  Good luck, I hope it works out, nothing more frustrating than making good beer and then not being able to drink it right.

Cheers

Norris

Edited by Norris!

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That rock and roll method is probably the easiest to stuff up. I never need to use it but I'm not a fan anyway.

Either way, using one fridge to ferment and serve from isn't an ideal situation. If you have room for another fridge I'd be looking at getting one when possible. It will make things a lot easier.

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36 minutes ago, Norris! said:

Henry I used to use picnic taps on my kegs, but had the gas hooked up. The thing to remember is that with the picnic taps, well all taps, is to open then up all the way and not just 3/4 of the way. I used to get foamy glasses until I just held it down all the way and tilted the glass at an angle to pour it onto the sides and not straight down into the bottom of the glass, like at keggers with plastic cups. The picnic taps I used only had about a meter of hose, so 5 ft might be a little long for the tap unless that is how it came.

Besides that everyone else hit most things.  Good luck, I hope it works out, nothing more frustrating than making good beer and then not being able to drink it right.

Cheers

Norris

Thanks Norris, I pour the same way, I have just finished watching on utube an American mob called smartypints they only had about 3 ft if that of beer line and it poured great so I think I am just not doing something right . I don't think I will be getting a kegerator though .

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3ft isn't enough at 10-14psi. Most people will reduce the serving pressure using picnic taps. You need to be able to reliably carbonate (read: have constant pressure on the kegs at serving temperature) and have the right line length for your internal diameter of line or flow control. 

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